Racing is dying?

[Black Panther 1,807]

 

[waikiore 507]

To a degree similar here, with a small number  of entrants doing most of the racing,  when it takes a syndicate of 50 somethings to be able to afford to maintain and race an 88 at Westhaven you can see where we are going...  

[ex Elly 268]

Numbers seem down in the Squadron winter series. I think Richmond now has more?

 

[motorb 54]

Racing is just the canary in the coal mine.

Young people can barely afford to keep a roof over our heads, let alone have kids or maintain a sailboat.

A lot of old boats are going to be scrapped in the coming decades.

[Black Panther 1,807]

1 hour ago, motorb said:

Racing is just the canary in the coal mine.

Young people can barely afford to keep a roof over our heads, let alone have kids or maintain a sailboat.

A lot of old boats are going to be scrapped in the coming decades.

I would modify that to poor, or even middle class, people. I know plenty of retired people who are on the bones of their arse, for one reason or another. 

[Psyche 879]

This has been  discussed this many times, its part of a larger societal trend that has been coming for a long time. Who knew that political and resulting cultural reforms of the 80's would lead to the world we have now as referenced by MotorB. It's everywhere if you look for it, it would not be unfair to say that participation in community based activities in general including sports is shrinking. Economic pressure is probably the single most important factor in boat ownership, but why crewing is unsupported is less apparent. Demographics are another significant factor, the boomers are dying out but as we all know sailing as a crew member is probably the cheapest gear sport there is, all you need is a raincoat yet its one of the most common complaints by owners- crew shortage and that's a today issue.

Some of this can be put on the keelboat clubs, the more successful ones have programs for new sailors and opportunities for them to step up into the racing fleet but its mostly factors outside their control. The major one being owners aging out and the economic headwinds that have reduced the number of yachts and pool of potential racers. The other points the video raises are all relevant I.e  any ugliness on the water or political bunfighting  puts people off, after all it's meant to be a fun pastime.

 

[waikiore 507]

True true -I well recall some brawling in the squadron amongst the Patiki crews after match racing, now thank goodness the average age has radically increased and we are likely to see them cruising and fun racing with smiles and beers at Kawau on Labour weekend ....

[El Toro 119]

Extortionate berth fees and insurance are huge factors.... that and ATs gifted ability to make it almost impossible to cross town to get to Westhaven doesnt help either

[Psyche 879]

38 minutes ago, waikiore said:

True true -I well recall some brawling in the squadron amongst the Patiki crews after match racing, now thank goodness the average age has radically increased and we are likely to see them cruising and fun racing with smiles and beers at Kawau on Labour weekend ....

 

What a load of rubbish!

Yes thank goodness, I recall many a Townson  owner bashing the living crap out of each other because the shade of blue on the cabin top was wrong.... Isn't it great they can't now since their zimmer frames would be quite a weapon in the wrong hands....

 

 

[waikiore 507]

Well if you were not there in the days of the Citizen , you would not know...  

[1paulg 22]

Definitely the cost of storing your boat and the cost ot repairs if someone cant do their own for a smallish boat makes it uneconomic to keep on top of things .hence we are starting to see empty small berths in marinas and unkept boats on moorings

[Psyche 879]

50 minutes ago, waikiore said:

Well if you were not there in the days of the Citizen , you would not know...  

Seriously what has this got to do with the topic, how about nothing?  

I'm pretty sure you dont know either and what your memory of one group of people did or didnt do 45 years ago is irrelevant, unless you want to mention NZ culture in general. What about behaviour back then in RSA's, rugby clubs or any blokey sport? 

In any highly competitive sport among adult males operating expensive gear there is going to be times when the red mist descends, the vid mentioned that this was one issue but not the only one that deterred new sailors from the sport.

 

[Psyche 879]

3 hours ago, El Toro said:

Extortionate berth fees and insurance are huge factors.... that and ATs gifted ability to make it almost impossible to cross town to get to Westhaven doesnt help either

This is huge ^^ and the across town thing is important in the sense that free time is at a premium so if you get off work at 5 and dockout is 5.30 unless you work in town, or are relatively flexible then it reduces weekday participation 

[CarpeDiem 560]

We’ve been really lucky on Carpe Diem with the people who have come through. Our other skipper is just 21 - she first joined the crew via a Facebook post when she was 19, and she now leads women’s series and women’s day out racing (I’m not even involved in those, they just happen). We also have a 14-year-old on board who’s already an amazing sailor.

Even when racing was cancelled on Sunday, six of the crew turned up to do boat chores together, and afterwards we ended up at Squadron for a late lunch (after failing to get parking at Swashbucklers in the rain!).

We used to race with 6 max, but now we run with 9 as a standard and sometimes 10 if someone new wants to jump on the rail. We’ve actually had more interest than we can take on, so I send people to the Richmond and Squadron crew finders instead. These days I don’t even need to post on Facebook - it’s all word of mouth.

The crew themselves suggested pooling $500 each year into a team racing kitty (similar to paying subs for soccer, hockey, or rugby). Not everyone does, but those who don’t usually drift away naturally. After winter races we’ll do burgers, fries and drinks together, and we also have a couple of BBQs or social catch-ups each season. Going back to the club isn’t always practical for us cost-wise, but the social side is definitely part of what keeps people engaged.

I don’t know the big-picture answer - or even what the real root of the problem is - but from where I sit, racing doesn’t have to die. Carpe Diem is living proof that with the right mix of opportunity, community, and fun, people are still really keen to be part of it.

We had 9 women on Carpe Diem for Women’s Day Out - all regular crew. They each paid Squadron ~$100 to take part, even though they’re already part of the team, because they wanted to support the event and be on the water together. That kind of enthusiasm shows there’s a strong community out there. The question is how to build on it - I don’t know the answer, but the potential is clearly there.

NB: The team didn't allow our under 18yo crew member to keep her wine.

[raz88 98]

On 3/09/2025 at 8:54 AM, Psyche said:

but why crewing is unsupported is less apparent.

 

The same economic/societal factors play here too. Instead of a one works/one runs household during the week, these days both partners work long hours, then weekends are spent catching up on chores and admin, running kids to the 17 different extra curricula activities they seem to be expected to do these days. Which also applies to the owners who could afford a boat, not a lot of point if you never have time to use it.

 

 

[Jono G 45]

Perhaps an effort needs to be in encouraging/incentivising smaller boats to sail. Less crew, less $. A racer cruiser under 12 m (Y11 / 1050) or PHRF under .8 is now a small boat.

For the Icebreaker/Spring regatta in the weekend, A Division had the most boats. No 1020s, 1 R930, No Y88s. No TYs.

There was quite an animated discussion at RAYC at the end of last summer about how to attract more boats to Gold Cup. But this applies equally to other racing. Funnily enough no real agreement was reached. But for better or worse, I've come back into the coastal racing game on a squabs on board basis. And like Carpe Diem we run a mixed crew and generally have no problem filling spots on either boat in our programme.

[Frank 192]

On 3/09/2025 at 11:46 AM, waikiore said:

Well if you were not there in the days of the Citizen , you would not know...  

As a 12 year old in the early 70's I recall seeing two plastered sailors brawling on the lawn in front of the snake pit at Bon Accord, they were so drunk nothing connected and nobody batted an eyelid. I thought ahh so this is all part of sailing   Dad said the bottom of the bay was carpeted with discarded beer cans something that made it iconic at the time but thank goodness attitudes have changed. 

[Cameron 108]

I think it's time for all yacht clubs to start to work together rather than competing and diluting every event!

There are far too many races with the result being the competitors are spread thinly.

There is no real break between summer and winter racing... it all becomes a bit monotonous...

Wednesday night racing starts next week... most years a few boats are caught out and aren't ready or organised for the start of the season... miss a few races and then it's easy to think I'm not in the series ... so you miss a few more. Personally I think a Labour Weekend kick off would be a better. 

Also series have got too long... when you get to 10+ race days the series winners often come down to the boats that sailed every race... life and other events get in the way and inevitably some competitors can't do every race... A shorter series makes it easier to plan other events around it. Look at the most popular series.... SSANZ Lewmar Triple Series, only 3 races, spaced a month apart. Easy!

 

[Psyche 879]

Basically there is a turf war between the clubs at Westhaven, three of them competing for a diminishing pool of racing yachts. We have discussed the reasons in the past but the reality is that instead just a steady churn, more people are leaving the sport than coming into it. Like Hemingway said when asked about how he went bankrupt "gradually then suddenly"

Faced with this grim reality what are they doing? Doubling down, putting on more races in the hope that more boats will come and thus build membership. Business people see this all the time when things are going tits up. 

It comes back to what is the point of a club? Is the club there for the sailors or are the sailors there for the club- IMHO there needs a Westhaven sailing committee with reps from each club who then organise the main racing series. Their members can then enter under their own flags which adds some rivalry to proceedings, the prizegivings, protest and race officers etc will need a bit of nutting out. 

 

[mischief 7]

On 24/09/2025 at 9:03 AM, Jono G said:

Perhaps an effort needs to be in encouraging/incentivising smaller boats to sail. Less crew, less $. A racer cruiser under 12 m (Y11 / 1050) or PHRF under .8 is now a small boat.

For the Icebreaker/Spring regatta in the weekend, A Division had the most boats. No 1020s, 1 R930, No Y88s. No TYs.

There was quite an animated discussion at RAYC at the end of last summer about how to attract more boats to Gold Cup. But this applies equally to other racing. Funnily enough no real agreement was reached. But for better or worse, I've come back into the coastal racing game on a squabs on board basis. And like Carpe Diem we run a mixed crew and generally have no problem filling spots on either boat in our programme.

Coastal entries are an interesting indicator - at time of writing, only 44 PHRF entries 3 weeks out.  I know people enter notoriously late entering, but seems low to me.  Perceptions of CAT3 being more challenging may be a factor, as well as the current economic climate (and surely the race  can't be as bad as last year...can it?....)

   As a small boat owner (under 10m)  feels like events like the coastal are currently dis-incentivising small boats.  The flat entry fee this year has meant div-5 entry fees have increased while the larger faster boat divisions have had a reduction in entry fees in some cases.  Time limits the last few years mean that many of the small boats that could have finished in the past now would struggle to meet the cut-off (think 727s etc in the past) - harder for a group of young sailors to campaign a boat for a race like the coastal now.  We finished last year, but the time limit was certainly in the back of our minds. 

then you have competing events which on at the same time that will have an impact on overall event numbers at each event (eg: bay week vs new kauwau race week).

Its complex, and we (clubs, OA) need to keep working smarter and together to reduce competition for entries and keep people using their limited leisure dollar and time budgets to be involved