Island Time 1,337 Posted Sunday at 11:06 PM Share Posted Sunday at 11:06 PM Here is the link for the draft- https://www.amsa.gov.au/news-community/news-and-media-releases/have-your-say-draft-standards-electrical-installations-now?fbclid=IwY2xjawN0wutleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHk9dlVaCqrokFhRi2nc_xoLIShZ8jcgx6ih_ax446qILIeFluR3IJ7jahtLA_aem_nec3_FTiIXcBDcJqK9wjcw Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,337 Posted Sunday at 11:16 PM Author Share Posted Sunday at 11:16 PM So currently there is no retrospectivity clause. Every boat would have to meet this standard. Part of the draft says that there may be NO PVC insulation on cables. This means every boat I know of would need to be re-wired. There is a requirement for fireproof (and certified) battery boxes for all Lithium chemistries. This means a system designed by an engineer, and approved by a fire engineer. IMO this is totally impractical. There is a requirement for negative pressure in the battery compartment, and min airflows, yet it has to be sealed fireproof. I have posted my comments on the draft linked above, and in some cases just liked existing comments. It would be best if we can get as many people to respond as possible. It is certainly not in our interest to have this accepted as is. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Kitty 341 Posted Monday at 12:04 AM Share Posted Monday at 12:04 AM If it’s sealed, then negative pressure will only last a few seconds after the thermal runaway starts, and a little after that it won’t be sealed anymore, after the bomb you have created goes off! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
w44vi 18 Posted Monday at 01:37 AM Share Posted Monday at 01:37 AM Is this the Australian standard that they are going to introduce here ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 559 Posted Monday at 02:06 AM Share Posted Monday at 02:06 AM 17 minutes ago, w44vi said: Is this the Australian standard that they are going to introduce here ? It will be the AU and NZ standard when ratified. However it has to also be cited in legislation to become a legal requirement. Currently NZ legislation cites no standards for recreational vessels UNLESS that vessel has a CONNECTABLE POWER SUPPLY. (Fundamentally for most boaties that means an EWOF). The current cited version for an EWOF is the 2008 version of the standards. However any inspector can choose to align with any standard they want... They operate independently and only have to comply with the 2008 standard which means they can choose to comply with the 2025 standard so long as it doesn't conflict with the 2008 standard. This is what Worksafe advised when I asked them specifically about this. AS/NZS 3004.2:2008 is the cited standard that the Electricity (Safety) Regulations 2010 (ESR) cite. Therefore, this is the version that will be required to be met for the install, testing, inspection, connection, and certification purposes. With the revised version of the standard not yet cited they may still use it as long as they can demonstrate how they are meeting the requirements of the cited version. Also making sure it does not reduce the safety of the installation in any way. Where the revised standard departs from the cited version, they would have to apply for an exemption under regulation 109 of the ESR. They would be required amongst other requirements to demonstrate how safety, including electrical safety, will be ensured if an exemption is granted. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,337 Posted Monday at 02:17 AM Author Share Posted Monday at 02:17 AM Interesting. My understanding is that the 2014 standard is cited and legal. As usual, the one hand does not know what the other is doing... Also, on the NZ standards website" AS/NZS 3004.2:2014 Current Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 559 Posted Monday at 02:57 AM Share Posted Monday at 02:57 AM 25 minutes ago, Island Time said: Interesting. My understanding is that the 2014 standard is cited and legal. As usual, the one hand does not know what the other is doing... Also, on the NZ standards website" AS/NZS 3004.2:2014 Current Yes it is cited in legislation for Martime Rules Part 40. Maritime Rules are administered by Maritime NZ and apply to commercial vessels. Recreational/pleasure craft are covered by the ESR 2010 The ESR: cites the 2008 version of the standard is administered by Worksafe NZ does not apply unless the vessel has a connectable power-supply But I will reiterate inspectors can choose which standard they want to comply with, so long as they are complying with the 2008 standard at a minimum. In my time doing this as DIY for a handful of boats I have used two inspectors, one uses the 2014 standard. That inspector is aware that the 2008 standard is the cited standard but has chosen to "Cover His Arse" and use the later standard - fair enough that's his personal choice - the other inspector uses the 2008 standard (which doesn't even mention Lithium). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,337 Posted Monday at 03:52 AM Author Share Posted Monday at 03:52 AM Indeed. There is one here at GH that's using the 2025 draft already. I think that's wrong, as it is not even a ratified standard yet, and may not be... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CarpeDiem 559 Posted Monday at 04:42 AM Share Posted Monday at 04:42 AM Thanks for posting this @Island Time Some obvious challenges: Starting batteries used for propulsion engine starting shall be installed so that the battery terminals are higher that the terminals of the engine starting motor. I will have to move my start batteries to the quarter-berth... A vent system or other means shall be provided to discharge gas released by the battery to the exterior of the vessel, with an outlet from the highest point of the battery compartment or locker and rising continuously to open air with bends of not more than 45°. The battery ventilation system shall be designed and located to ensure sea air mist or water ingress is not possible, under all boat operating conditions. I can't understand how one could meet both those? By definition a riser that rises continuously to the outside will let water run down it into the battery compartment... I must be missing something really obvious... LIB packs are required to comply with IEC 62619, or IEC 62620 Build your own installs will be out - this is not achievable for a DIYer as it required lab certifications and destructive testing. So the only option available will be the all included options like Victron where everything, the packs the BMS etc, come as a certified product. LIB systems shall be housed in compartments or enclosures that provide 30 min rated structural firefireprotection between the interior of the enclosure and adjacent parts of the boat. 5mm steel box with 50mm of insulation will suffice of course that eliminates any weight savings This standard is most likely a long way off being a requirement for pleasure craft in NZ - but Sodium batteries are probably the more suitable alternative to Lead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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