New electrical standards

[Island Time 1,344]

Here is the link for the draft-

 

https://www.amsa.gov.au/news-community/news-and-media-releases/have-your-say-draft-standards-electrical-installations-now?fbclid=IwY2xjawN0wutleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHk9dlVaCqrokFhRi2nc_xoLIShZ8jcgx6ih_ax446qILIeFluR3IJ7jahtLA_aem_nec3_FTiIXcBDcJqK9wjcw

[Island Time 1,344]

So currently there is no retrospectivity clause. Every boat would have to meet this standard.

Part of the draft says that there may be NO PVC insulation on cables. This means every boat I know of would need to be re-wired.

There is a requirement for fireproof (and certified) battery boxes for all Lithium chemistries.   This means a system designed by an engineer, and approved by a fire engineer. IMO this is totally impractical.

There is a requirement for negative pressure in the battery compartment, and min airflows, yet it has to be sealed fireproof.

I have posted my comments on the draft linked above, and in some cases just liked existing comments.

It would be best if we can get as many people to respond as possible. It is certainly not in our interest to have this accepted as is.

 

[Bad Kitty 341]

If it’s sealed, then negative pressure will only last a few seconds after the thermal runaway starts, and a little after that it won’t be sealed anymore, after the bomb you have created goes off!

[w44vi 18]

Is this the Australian standard that they are going to introduce here ?

[CarpeDiem 563]

17 minutes ago, w44vi said:

Is this the Australian standard that they are going to introduce here ?

It will be the AU and NZ standard when ratified. 

However it has to also be cited in legislation to become a legal requirement. 

Currently NZ legislation cites no standards for recreational vessels UNLESS that vessel has a CONNECTABLE POWER SUPPLY. (Fundamentally for most boaties that means an EWOF). 

The current cited version for an EWOF is the 2008 version of the standards.

However any inspector can choose to align with any standard they want... They operate independently and only have to comply with the 2008 standard which means they can choose to comply with the 2025 standard so long as it doesn't conflict with the 2008 standard. 

This is what Worksafe advised when I asked them specifically about this. 

AS/NZS 3004.2:2008 is the cited standard that the Electricity (Safety) Regulations 2010 (ESR) cite. Therefore, this is the version that will be required to be met for the install, testing, inspection, connection, and certification purposes.

 

With the revised version of the standard not yet cited they may still use it as long as they can demonstrate how they are meeting the requirements of the cited version. Also making sure it does not reduce the safety of the installation in any way.

 

Where the revised standard departs from the cited version, they would have to apply for an exemption under regulation 109 of the ESR. They would be required amongst other requirements to demonstrate how safety, including electrical safety, will be ensured if an exemption is granted.

[Island Time 1,344]

Interesting. My understanding is that the 2014 standard is cited and legal. As usual, the one hand does not know what the other is doing...

Also, on the NZ standards website"

AS/NZS 3004.2:2014

Current

[CarpeDiem 563]

25 minutes ago, Island Time said:

Interesting. My understanding is that the 2014 standard is cited and legal. As usual, the one hand does not know what the other is doing...

Also, on the NZ standards website"

AS/NZS 3004.2:2014

Current

Yes it is cited in legislation for Martime Rules Part 40.  Maritime Rules are administered by Maritime NZ and apply to commercial vessels.

Recreational/pleasure craft are covered by the ESR 2010

The ESR:

• cites the 2008 version of the standard
• is administered by Worksafe NZ
• does not apply unless the vessel has a connectable power-supply

But I will reiterate inspectors can choose which standard they want to comply with, so long as they are complying with the 2008 standard at a minimum.  In my time doing this as DIY for a handful of boats I have used two inspectors, one uses the 2014 standard.  That inspector is aware that the 2008 standard is the cited standard but has chosen to "Cover His Arse" and use the later standard - fair enough that's his personal choice - the other inspector uses the 2008 standard (which doesn't even mention Lithium).

[Island Time 1,344]

Indeed. There is one here at GH that's using the 2025 draft already. I think that's wrong,  as it is not even a ratified standard yet, and may not be...

[CarpeDiem 563]

Thanks for posting this @Island Time

Some obvious challenges:

Starting batteries used for propulsion engine starting shall be installed so that the battery terminals are higher that the terminals of the engine starting motor.

I will have to move my start batteries to the quarter-berth...

A vent system or other means shall be provided to discharge gas released by the battery to the exterior of the vessel, with an outlet from the highest point of the battery compartment or locker and rising continuously to open air with bends of not more than 45°.
The battery ventilation system shall be designed and located to ensure sea air mist or water ingress is not possible, under all boat operating conditions.

I can't understand how one could meet both those?  By definition a riser that rises continuously to the outside will let water run down it into the battery compartment... I must be missing something really obvious...

LIB packs are required to comply with IEC 62619, or IEC 62620  

Build your own installs will be out - this is not achievable for a DIYer as it required lab certifications and destructive testing.  So the only option available will be the all included options like Victron where everything, the packs the BMS etc, come as a certified product.

LIB systems shall be housed in compartments or enclosures that provide 30 min rated structural firefireprotection between the interior of the enclosure and adjacent parts of the boat.

5mm steel box with 50mm of insulation will suffice  of course that eliminates any weight savings

This standard is most likely a long way off being a requirement for pleasure craft in NZ - but Sodium batteries are probably the more suitable alternative to Lead.

[marinheiro 366]

On 3/11/2025 at 12:16 PM, Island Time said:

So currently there is no retrospectivity clause. Every boat would have to meet this standard.

 

Past AS/NZS 3004.2 standards do not have a retrospectivity clause either (unlike AS/NZS 5601 Gas installations cl 1.3). Standards in general only apply to new work unless legislation has a specific back dating requirement. Bringing old buildings up to compliance with current earthquake code is an example of this.

[Zozza 372]

The biggest bomb threat on a boat in my opinion is not batteries or electrical systems gone wrong, but are gas cookers because idiots don't know what they are doing to safely install a gas cooker on their boat.  As I am an idiot, I stay away from gas cookers, and use alcohol cookers - which yes, can still cause idiots to start a fire but generally are way safer than gas.

[K4309 449]

2 hours ago, Zozza said:

The biggest bomb threat on a boat in my opinion is not batteries or electrical systems gone wrong, but are gas cookers because idiots don't know what they are doing to safely install a gas cooker on their boat.  As I am an idiot, I stay away from gas cookers, and use alcohol cookers - which yes, can still cause idiots to start a fire but generally are way safer than gas.

I would counter that overheating electrical wires are the most likely way to start a fire on a boat. They certainly account for 80% of the near misses on boats regards fires. There is no shortage of guys with stories about smelling something odd and / or finding a melted wire casing while investigating some other issue on a boat. (switches and plugs included).

But in saying that, it's not clear how yet another standard will mitigate that risk. All you need to do is make sure you put in big enough wires and / or don't overload the existing systems with new devices and gizmos. That knowledge (how to size a wire for resistance, voltage drop and load) has been around since not long after DC electricity was invented.

The only other thing to do is keep an eye on the state of connections etc, regard corrosion or old age failure. Again, the primary approach is to use tinned wire (which has been around since Jesus was a baby), and to carry out basic maintenance checks. The irony being that an overly prescriptive standard may increase danger because it may become too onerous to fix or replace existing electrical installations.

Gas stoves and appliances have a high perceived risk, but the reality is the number of accidents and issues are actually very, very low. Granted the exception is people using those portable space heaters in the saloon, etc.

[Psyche 897]

The problem we have is that boat accidents whether they be from gas or a short, bad weather or bad seamanship or simply bad luck are very newsworthy. If floats and bleeds it most definitely leads.  We also have battalions of political managers and petty bureaucrats who are believe that more rules are the answer to every single problem on planet earth. Thats why we get idiotic and contradicting proposals, which only make sense if you inhabit their cloistered universe. 

Moving on, standards should be clear, relevant, practical and accessible. Requirements for recreational vessels that don't have shore power for example, which are the majority of vessels in NZ, should be unambiguous and judging by the multiple threads requesting information on compliant safe conversion to lithium-it does not appear to be so.

This is probably the biggest trend in electrical upgrades and for owners with existing FLA systems it should not require them to pull their hair out trying to do the right thing. Ultimately if compliance is too difficult people will just ignore the rules and that may cause the very issues the standard seeks to address.