Seized Volvo D1-20 Saildrive, low hours

[Frank 217]

Hi all, hoping to tap into the collective wisdom of the audience.

So my D1-20 saildrive  was at idle and in neutral when there was a "Clonk" sound and it stopped and would not re-start.

This unit only has 350 hrs on it but it is not under warranty (long story won't bore you with detail) 

 

Checks done

• Eng Oil level Normal
• Eng temp at the time was normal (90 degC) 
• Coolant level normal
• Raw water intake/strainers clear and water flowing
• Jabsco impeller check and found satisfactory (had been recently changed)
• No over-temp alarms
• No low oil pressure alarms
• No rope fouled propellor
• Propellor turns freely with gearbox in neutral
• Engine cannot be turned in either direction with a 1/2 inch power bar and socket on the crankshaft V belt pulley.
• All scheduled maintenance up to date.

Questions  re next steps , should I 

• Pull an injector and check for hydro lock ?
• Take Rocker Cover off and check for a bent valve stem ?
• Split gearbox from engine and see if the engine turns freely on its own (implying its a gearbox issue)
• Pull the starter motor off and check pinion/bendix gear etc

I have already contacted volvo at Beaumont street with the same questions in advance of a potential workshop visit

Has anyone else experienced something similar and if so what was the cause.

 

[John B 119]

Geez, I feel for you.

It's hard to imagine a hydro lock from idling ,and for it to lock enough to prevent turning both ways it's more than one cylinder. And it's not a rope on the prop.

So it sounds mechanical to me, but by your own diagnosis you're well onto it and would see anything obvious like a thrown/ jammed up belt. Maybe drop off the belt anyway and check the water pump and the alternator moves.

Best of luck

[aardvarkash10 1,159]

The clonk sound is depressing....

If the crank won't turn in either direction that sounds catastrophic.  Even a dropped valve shouldn't stop the crank from turning.

I'm not sure how easy it is to uncouple the gearbox from the engine.  If it's relatively simple, that would identify if the clonk was engine or gearbox generated.

[Psyche 899]

Unlikely to be hydraulic lock, a clonk and stall could be gearbox related, I would separate the engine and gearbox and go from there. You are going to have to do it anyway from the sound of it.

[Frank 217]

9 minutes ago, Psyche said:

Unlikely to be hydraulic lock, a clonk and stall could be gearbox related, I would separate the engine and gearbox and go from there. You are going to have to do it anyway from the sound of it.

Yes that's where my thinking is headed even if it was the engine I would expect at least some limited movement of the crank even if difficult but this thing is utterly immovable in either direction. The exhaust hose /water lock muffler configuration  etc has given 20 years of trouble free service and the engine was running at the time so I cant see how it can be a water lock. 

[khayyam 112]

I'd guess timing failure but let's hope for something else? Separating gearbox and engine seems reasonable to me but others will know much more. 

[CarpeDiem 567]

Have you checked the gear lever mechanism on the Saildrive? The Morse controller can find some funny midpoint where they are in gear but the prop can still spin.

Does the prop still spin if if you put it into gear? 

Then my next step would be to split the engine and saildrive.

If you have full service records at 350 hours, I we would be making a claim under the CGA.  There's no way Volvo would say that their engines might only last 350hours and that's a reasonable failure interval.  If it was 3500 then that would be different... But 350 is substantially below what any normal person could consider to be the normal lifespan of a d1-20.

[Cameron 109]

did you check the gearbox/saildrive oil level?

 

[Frank 217]

9 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:

Have you checked the gear lever mechanism on the Saildrive? The Morse controller can find some funny midpoint where they are in gear but the prop can still spin.

Does the prop still spin if if you put it into gear? 

Then my next step would be to split the engine and saildrive.

If you have full service records at 350 hours, I we would be making a claim under the CGA.  There's no way Volvo would say that their engines might only last 350hours and that's a reasonable failure interval.  If it was 3500 then that would be different... But 350 is substantially below what any normal person could consider to be the normal lifespan of a d1-20.

The Propellor spins freely with the gearbox in neutral and the gearbox/saildrive oil level is normal, oil presents normal.

Hauling out on the weekend and will split the box from the engine and we will know which half is the cause , I will post the results .

As for CGA, the engine/saildrive was new in the crate purchased 10 years ago for a boat then being built DIY. The project was never completed and the owner started selling off the bits. We installed the engine four years ago and we had to disassemble the crate first. I checked with the Volvo techs as to what procedures to adopt and we followed those.

My money is on the gearbox, we shall see.

 

Thanks for the comments BTW !

[Frank 217]

UPDATE: 

Nothing unusual under the rocker cover, likewise starter motor pinion and ring gear look normal. Got on the phone to the tech at Volvo and he concludes that only a seized big end or Crank Bearing could cause it to lock up with zero lash ie all other possible culprits would exhibit at least 2 or 3mm of rotation on the crank pulley. Can't see any bad reports on the interweb  with Shibaura engines in fact they are considered the epitome of rugged reliability such that even Kubota use them in some products. So its into the shop it goes and we shall see, but I will update, probably in a few weeks, bummer !

[waikiore 517]

I have seen similar after exhaust mixer failure caused a hydraulic -but would be most unusual in such low hours -and yes the Shibaura engines are rugged and long lasting. 

[Frank 217]

I popped the sump and no metal particles or any visual indication of damage/failure, everything looked normal. I could see the intake valves through the induction ports and there was no sign of rust or moisture ingress. . The engine was idling at the time of failure but I suppose if there is some way the exhaust mass flow could be overcome by a water column in the exhaust then that might be a cause although the current exhaust arrangement has not altered in 25 years of use and has never caused any issues. I'm assuming after a hydrolock the engine could be turned even a  little with a big spanner on the crank pulley but no it's absolutely rock solid immobilised in either direction. I dropped it off at the rebuilders this morning and they said one to two weeks to tear it down and report back. I'm sure there will be an ....Oh...... Duh ! .......(sound of hand smacking forehead) moment when they report back but I will post the results.

 

[John B 119]

I'm checking each day for updates on the great crew.org motor mystery of the year.

I dunno... I would have expected some warning on a bearing issue, noise, clatter, smoke etc. Not a catastrophic stop. How about back to the front and a concertina timing chain jam up? Or that big metal impeller, bits of, doing the same.......( if that's possible)

[Frank 217]

No updates at this time: My son was on the boat at the time but he reports there were no unusual sounds or symptoms other than the sudden clunk, yes I'm wondering about the timing gears/chain too but I'm not sure which it has, in any case I would not have thought a complete lock up would result from that ( I could be wrong) . The biggest metal impeller  is the prop  and its fine as with the saildrive unit. One thing I should have removed was the bell housing cover to see if the flywheel was somehow locked up. Really the only thing confirmed thus far is its the engine not the gearbox.

[LBD 212]

I know you said nothing in the sump.

Did the oil level increase?... if there was water in the cylinder it would drain into your sump and you would have seen it... very very unlikely that is the cause, especially if it was running.... if you want to be doubly sure, put a little of the oil on a tea spoon and hold a lighter under it.... if it really crackles and pops as it heats, then there is some water in the oil but again unlikely to be the cause.

Another trick is to put some oil in a screw top plastic bottle, put a magnet on top of the lid and turn upside down for a couple of hours. Then turn back upright leaving the magnet in place on the lid... unscrew the lid with magnet in place and see what magnetic debris is held there.

Next step I would do is remove the oil filter and cut it open... try not to use a hacksaw as this will contaminate the paper with iron filings. Remove a section of paper pleats, concertina up, wrap in a rag and squash the oil out by clamping in a vice or g clamp... then open out the pleats in the sun with glasses on if your eyes are like mine and what do you see?  any shiny bits?

As you noted earlier the engine does not turn even a fraction... this does indicate it is engine side of flywheel, there is always a little play in the drive spline and springs in the dampener plate... oh!... I do recall having seen a polymer drive plate break and jam between the flywheel and housing a lifetime ago.

I am sorry I am not in your area, I would be there swinging spanners... I love a good mechanical mystery like this. 

 

 

[Frank 217]

No visual signs of water contamination in the oil, likewise no visible indications of the engine making metal but to be fair the oil hasn't been lab analysed.

My son was solo on the boat at the time but as far as I can tell none of the usual signs of advanced bearing failure presented although its possible they were there but not obvious or noticed.

I dropped the engine off at the rebuilders last tuesday but it will be at least another week before they tear it down, standby to standby.

[LBD 212]

5 hours ago, Frank said:

No visual signs of water contamination in the oil, likewise no visible indications of the engine making metal but to be fair the oil hasn't been lab analysed.

My son was solo on the boat at the time but as far as I can tell none of the usual signs of advanced bearing failure presented although its possible they were there but not obvious or noticed.

I dropped the engine off at the rebuilders last tuesday but it will be at least another week before they tear it down, standby to standby.

Good luck, I hope it is not terminal.

[Frank 217]

DRUM ROLL PLEASE ............................!!! 

[K4309 450]

9 minutes ago, Frank said:

DRUM ROLL PLEASE ............................!!! 

Enough with the suspense already...

We've been waiting months, if not years for the latest installment of what is wrong with your engine.

 

PS, this is better than anything on Netflix at the moment

[Frank 217]

I wont keep you all in suspenders any further ........................it was............................!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The bolts that attach the flywheel to a flange on the crankshaft had unwound themselves yes all of them! eventually they contacted the bell housing, ie clunk-stop.

The rebuilders reckon they weren't properly torqued at the factory, no harm to the engine , they had taken the head off as a precaution but nothing wrong there.

I just have to source a few gaskets for them and its all go , hopefully the bill won't be too steep for that, they said its a very common engine.

Right I'm off for a celebratory G and T or maybe two then a call to Norwoods to see  if I can get the gaskets cheaper than at Volvo.