Reefing lines

[Bad Kitty 252]

OK here's one for the riggers out there,

When we go offshore on Bad Kitty, we change the 1st & 2nd reef lines to reef 2 & 3. (single line reefing back to the cockpit)

They are 12mm and I want to have a smaller diameter line up the sail when not reefed, but then the clutch won't hold it when reefed. (spinlock, good clutches)

Should I run a smaller line up the mast end, and splice to 12mm where it enters the clutch when reefed (not really losing enough 12mm line) or can I use maybe 10mm for the whole reefing line & get a clever rigger to insert some core where the clutch will hold the reefed line!

Or is there a better way?

Thanks, in anticipation!

[Absolution 7]

How big is your main? Reefing lines are typically very high load so you don't want them too small. I have snapped a 12mm spectra reef line before and it wasn't pretty.

[Guest]

Use a hell good 10mm dyneema cored and put a extra cover over where it goes thru the clutch is what some have and are doing. Works well done right, which isn't hard.

 

Maybe consider spending a tad more and getting a rope with a high wear cover as well. Something with Vectran on the outside to minimise chafe up on the sail cringle also. That's all I'll use these days as I'm well and truly over having to replace reef lines at 4am in shite weather. Why is it the fuckers never seem to play up between 6am and midnite

 

a clever rigger

Only clever??, some would have to be frecking Magicians to do the impossible that some owners what done

[Bad Kitty 252]

Only clever??, some would have to be frecking Magicians to do the impossible that some owners what done

 

Well knock me over with a feather, a string shop owner with something expensive that might help!

 

OK KM so do we sew the cover on or is that a Ropes Chains & Anchors job? (Squid bill KM for that ad mate)

[Bad Kitty 252]

How big is your main? Reefing lines are typically very high load so you don't want them too small. I have snapped a 12mm spectra reef line before and it wasn't pretty.

 

Hi Fineline, same size as every yachts, too small in 8 knots and f#%king terrifyingly huge in 50 knots with 3 reefs!

 

Seriously though I'll need to check a cartoon of the boat,

About 16 mtr luff?

And cat, so yes very high load. It's got clever little Antal reef blocks with sheaves and stuff though so we've lost those friction problems at the cringles. More info to follow.

[PaulR 3]

Method 1:

Run a messenger between leech cringgles.

Messenger = thin 4mm nylon loop with a long tail

When not in use, messenger is positioned so loose tail is between cringles, and tail becomes an additional telltale for mainsail trimming.

When reefing, rotate the messenger loop to pull the heavier (12mm) reefing line, (hitched by messenger's tail) up from the boom, through the leech cringle and back down to loop around the boom, (through a saddle to stop slipping forwards towards tack), ending in a bowline knot.

Then reef as normal.

 

This way one keeps swapping the reefing lines up the leech and you can do multiple reefs if your main has them. 1st reefing becomes new #3 reefing line; 2nd reefing line becomes #4 reefing line etc

 

Put a safety lashing around the boom through the leech cringle in a few loops as well. This will later keep the reefed sail tidy and not dragging as much in the water as the wind climbs above 60+ knots and off the scale for the next week Been there done that & it worked.

 

Disadvantage is that it is safer to do this when close hauled, which may not be desirable in a big seaway and with booms well above the deck, it could be too hard to reach up, and too dangerous to walk out along the boom.

 

Method 2. Join a light line to the normally fixed end of the leech reefing line. When not reefed, the light 4mm nylon is all that is hoisted. When reefing, the light line is pulled in at the tack, feeding the heavier line up from the boom, through the leech cringle, back down to the boom, and forward to the tack, where it can be lead & looped around the mast before being cleated or knotted off. Then the running (other) end is winched in to reef normally.

 

Disadvantage: Lots of reefing line in rope bag in cockpit or lots of thin line at the mast that easily tangles, when under water (6ft solid green over the bow stuff).

You cannot easily swap reefing lines for #3, #4, #5 reefing cringles.

 

Personally I like Method 1, especially if going offshore.

In harbour and coastal sailing, the messenger loops tend to catch on everything as one is often hoisting and dropping mainsails daily, so only fit the messengers when ocean voyaging is happening.

[Absolution 7]

Hi Fineline, same size as every yachts, too small in 8 knots and f#%king terrifyingly huge in 50 knots with 3 reefs!

 

Seriously though I'll need to check a cartoon of the boat,

About 16 mtr luff?

And cat, so yes very high load. It's got clever little Antal reef blocks with sheaves and stuff though so we've lost those friction problems at the cringles. More info to follow.

 

Looking at the rig calcs for Fineline the first reef has a max working load of approx 1100kg and that's with a 15m luff on the main. Shock loading could be double that and because BK is a multi your initial righting moment is much higher which will push the loads up higher again. I'd probably stick with 12mm minimum no matter how tricky the string is.

[Guest]

Well knock me over with a feather, a string shop owner with something expensive that might help!

Expensive is relative. We prefer to use the term value for money

 

The bulk up cover can be sewn on by anyone, it's knot hard. Check your jammers, they may take 10mm, lots that take 12 also do 10.

 

And I do have to mention I am thinking more Fineline than BK on the string size. They are reef lines and you need them to work when all hell is starting or has broken loose. It's knot like you are racing and looking for that extra 0.5% after all.

[Steve Pope 243]

I have found climbing ropes to have much more abrasion resistant covers than yacht braid, plus there is a different range of sizes, 9mm for example. i use it on my Wichard type boom brake which relys of friction to work properly.

[Absolution 7]

I would never use a climbing rope on a yacht. Climbing ropes are designed to stretch which is normally the last thing that you want. Might be ok for a boom brake but never a reef line. You can get chafe resistant covers for yacht rope too.

[Guest]

I have found climbing ropes to have much more abrasion resistant covers than yacht braid, plus there is a different range of sizes, 9mm for example. i use it on my Wichard type boom brake which relys of friction to work properly.

Knot so much a chafe resistant material, most are made from the exact same yarns as yachting rope, more than it is the construction of the cover. Climbing ropes tend to be 32 or 48 carrier where most yachting ropes are 24 or 16 carrier covers, more the 24 these days. Basically climbing ropes have 'finer', for lack of a better word you'll understand, woven covers. So climbing have a smoother finish to their covers hence slide over rocks smoother hence less chafe. Besides a climbing rope with any signs of chafe should be chucked away pretty damn quick. If you put 2 ropes of differing carrier numbers side by side you'll see the difference very quickly.

 

32 and 48 carrier ropes are used for yachting ropes also but usually they are more expensive as they are a lot slower to make, knot much but it's there. On a yacht around blocks the differing number of carriers would make next to no, if any at all, difference to the average yachter.

 

Oh and there are 2 base sorts of climbing rope, Dynamic and Static. Dynamic stretch so if a climber falls there is some give rather than a sudden bone/spine snapping stop at the end. Static ropes have bugger all stretch. When you clime Mt Everest use Dynamic, if cleaning windows of a skyscraper or abseiling use Static.

[PaulR 3]

KM: that's a strictly male perspective.

For the lady sailorettes out there, they would like the finer weaves.

You must let your feminine side see daylight more often

[Guest]

Ok, fluro pink ropes for you from now on