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Nothing heard from them for a MONTH!?


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Now why would you think the exact opposite? That sounds very odd indeed! Apart from the moderately increased risk of electrocution via contact with SSB arial of course... :wink: And I don't think any sort of false sense of security argument would hold up, because that is entirely dependent on the personalities of those on board. All other things being equal - why would having an SSB or Sat phone make things more dangerous on an ocean passage?

 

I would say it's inherently safer to have someone know roughly where you are, or were at a certain time, so that in the event a rescue needs to take place, they would have a better idea of where to look for you, and therefore the chances of finding you would increase. Simple logic, really.

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I agree with Squid. If you are going sailing anywhere you need to well prepared enough to fix any issues and if you are well prepared the likelihood of issues is very remote. To my mind the whole idea of cruising is to get away from all the day to day crap we seem to have deal with these days so who wants to be beholden to reporting in to someone and slapped over the wrist or worse end up with a huge S&R bill just because your communications device stopped working for some reason. Living is a risk and perception of risk is the problem. The riskiest thing we all do is drive a car !

That is not to say I don't have an epirb etc but as for reporting in to coastguard to head down to Waiheke ??????????

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Just my two cents from our trip. First leg, we started by making 2hrly TR's with Maritime radio from Sunset to Sunrise. Several reasons why, it was our first night passage, it was ruff, and it was nice having the company every couple of hrs. What I realised though, was that if it went to custard in that weather, I am not sure we would survive 2hrs in the water before knowing someone was calling and then woudl anyone come looking in the dark anyway, apart from an Orion maybe and that would probably be another 2hrs or so anyway.

So next leg, we decided not to make any TR, till we ended up being hit with the 60kts. At that time I thought it best to make a TR just so someone knew we were out there in it.

Third leg, we decided not to make a TR at all. When we were the furthest offshore, I really struggled to hear Maritime when they were talking to anyone on Ch16. But the thing I didn't think about was the friends we were txting while out there. We suddenly lost cell coverage, which I expected, but I never expected for how long I would be out of range. And so the two main ones that would make a call if they hadn't heard from us, actually had started to wonder and discuss what they shoudl do. Fortunately we were back in range before they made any call, but it does show one downside keeping in contact also.

So what I learn't, I don't think I would bother making TR's again. I know that in an emergency, I can call. I have a second handheld in our grab bag, so should be able to still call if something happened quickly and I couldn't get to the main radio. Nearing the top of our list is an EPIRB, and that will be a good safety tool also.

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Now why would you think the exact opposite? That sounds very odd indeed! Apart from the moderately increased risk of electrocution via contact with SSB arial of course... :wink: And I don't think any sort of false sense of security argument would hold up, because that is entirely dependent on the personalities of those on board. All other things being equal - why would having an SSB or Sat phone make things more dangerous on an ocean passage?

 

I would say it's inherently safer to have someone know roughly where you are, or were at a certain time, so that in the event a rescue needs to take place, they would have a better idea of where to look for you, and therefore the chances of finding you would increase. Simple logic, really.

 

BB We will have to disagree. The false sense of security is real and it happens. Admittedly it is more likely to be a statistical shift. That is a well found and well managed boat will remain that, but new people are heading offshore all the time, many of whom would not have attempted it back in the days of sextants and no communications. These new developments lead them to think " with these toys I can do it and be safe". The result being 1) an increase in the number of boats heading offshore 2) an overall drop in the average seamanship/ability of the fleet.

 

My main concern with unprepared boats is that every time there is a search for some dipshit we come one step closer to more legislation and more stupid rules that will interfere with my plans to go sailing.

 

Just look at the people on this forum (all younger than me :( ) who think my positon is irresponsible, even though I have been sailing for 47 years and have way over 100,000 miles under the keel.

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For the record Squid, I never said i thought your position was irresponsible, and I don't think it is. (in case you were including me on that comment, which you might not have been).

 

In my intial post I was just expressing surprise that people would head off for such an extended period without communicating. My surprise was also not based on an opinion that not doing so was irresponsible or that communicating makes you safer to the point that being able to communicate means you don't have to be prepared, be self sufficient, be able to navigate, read weather forecasts, maps etc.

 

I just struggle with the ideas that people wouldn't communicate, when doing so is so easy... but I don't go crusing to get away from all the crap we have to put up with. I actually don't mind the crap we have to put up with. I like being at sea too, of course... but I don't see communicating as an onerous burden. I had never thought that other people might see it that way... hence my surprise, I guess.

 

My post about S&R being the problem was merely to illustrate that if boaties who chose not to communicate, then if/when they do get into trouble or end up overdure, it can, at times, result in significant search operations. I mentioned that to illustrate that not communicating can have consequences, whether you want them to be consequences or not. There are scenarios in which some communications or a commincations schecule of some sort can stop people initiating a search unneccessarily. But, at the same time, I agree, it's a double edged sword, and it can go wrong in the other direction too.

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Both arguments are valid it depends on your actions beforehand.

In This case they had not only told people they were leaving but also told people when they planned to arrive, therefore they have created an obligation to communicate. The alternative is to quietly slip the mooring and go then you old salts can be truly free and no possibility of wasted $ on S and R

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My surprise was also not based on an opinion that .............. communicating makes you safer to the point that being able to communicate means you don't have to be prepared, be self sufficient, be able to navigate, read weather forecasts, maps etc.

Egg zachary. That's why I said "all other things being equal". I don't think having the ability to communicate makes things inherently less safe than not having that ability. Quite the opposite. If it's available, use it. But not at the detriment of everything else, of course. It's like people who shun GPS in favour of sticking solely with paper. I mean there's purist, and then there's... well, mentalist.

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communicating makes you safer to the point that being able to communicate means you don't have to be prepared, be self sufficient, be able to navigate, read weather forecasts, maps etc.

 

 

And I say you are safer if you can do those things, what happens if one day those props are taken from you?

 

And anyway where's the satisfaction, might as well sit at home and watch remote video from your drone sailboat.

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I guess Squid your point is if people conclude that having comms readily available means that they don't need to be prepared for self sufficiency, then there is a problem. I agree with you on that point. People going to sea should understand that the potential for dangerous weather etc is real and not count on being rescued.

 

However I don't believe that a well prepared and skilled yachtie will by necessity shun having comms available to them. That's just being a die hard old salt who wants to go to Davy Jones locker if the sh*t hits the fan. And that is fine if there is no one else on this planet that cares about you and would prefer to see you arrive safe and sound at the other end. (Even though I love sailing I have no desire to die doing it)

 

So of course having comms available is a good idea. If we are to take that die hard thing to its illogical conclusion, then we wouldn't use microwaves, cell phones, cell phones to send sms (because phones are for talking on right?), cars (because there's nothing wrong with a horse). There are many examples, but the point is that time moves on and technology offers us more options. And while we don't have to jump on them as a saviour the first time a wave is more than 1 ft high, there's no good reason to not have them. (No one will force you to call for help if you really would rather die out there)

 

If for example you were sailing an ocean in perfectly good weather and your beloved developed appendicitis and she developed peritonitis and died because of your beliefs in no comms, you'd never forgive yourself. So you'd call and ask for help. Unless of course you felt you could also operate on said person - which in reality is bloody unlikely.

 

Take the SSB and the satphone.

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In Marlborough, it is over the top extreme the otherway, with people placign TR's for a trip around the corner to a bay. But then, this probably stems from the police/coastguard that used to advertise the "2 minute form" if you remember those days.

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Its also good to be able to pinpoint your location to the authorities so money can be saved in regard to search and rescue costs. I have a Spot Messenger onboard and know it works from experience. With these you can send a I'm OK message to I think ten people both email and txt that includes the lat and long leaving a "breadcrumb trail". I paid about $100 for mine. I used mine in anger once when I got hit by a ship off the Mahia Peninsula in the dead of night. Thought I was sinking as the bow wave had come right over my yacht and lots of water below. I let off the spot emergency and later when I had checked the bilges and realised I was ok I sent a I'm OK message. This system worked like a charm. Coastguard came out to see I was really ok but they were out there anyway doing a rescue of a fisherman who was having heart difficulties. Having the ability to say I'm OK is great for people ashore, like my wife.

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Agreed, As I said, I carry epirb and Satphone, but I also know how to prepare for bad weather, how to read the weather, how to navigate..............

 

(OK my TV is supposed to stop working soon and we are debating whether or not to replace it)

 

What I don't like is "please go look for X as they were supposed to call yesterday and didn't" or "come and get me my mainsail has a hole in it" or (this is for real)" can some one in the bay with a radar find me on their screen and tell me what course to steer to get in?. I''ll motor in small circles so you can identify me."

 

And I really don't like being told, you must have this or you won't be "safe".

 

 

Comms don't make you safer, just easier to rescue.

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In Marlborough, it is over the top extreme the otherway, with people placign TR's for a trip around the corner to a bay. But then, this probably stems from the police/coastguard that used to advertise the "2 minute form" if you remember those days.

 

Yes hearing TRs for short trips can be insignificant to you now that you have arrived in Auckland.

 

However IMHO if new people are "LEARNING" how to do things better and/or it is the more inexperienced spouse making the TR, then I say fine. The more anybody is using a radio, the more they will hear (hopefully) better and more experienced people with precise, accurate and complete transmissions.

 

One only has to listen to the VHF traffic in the SIMRAD and COASTAL CLASSIC and hear how many times Coastguard have to ask for a boat name to be repeated, then ask for callsign 2 or 3 times and hear the bad and imprecise replies. And these are experienced yachties :?:

 

Perhaps examples of good vs bad communications need to be highlighted at briefings. :thumbup:

 

So I'm a supporter of people using comms, but also prefer a 30 to 60 second good transmission rather than a 5 minute rambling poor one.

 

My only real suggestion is to write down exactly what you want to say at each radio checkin point or schedule time. One can do this preparation today for next months Coastal Classic.

 

The more practical "practice" one has the easier things are in an emergency.

 

A couple of years ago, after hitting my second whale and taking on a smallish fountain / trickle of water, just north of Sail Rock, 1.5nm west of the Hen; I was most apprecative of Coastguards 30minute radio schedule as we went to Kawau Is. and then I made sure we called in exactly 30 mins apart in case we suddendly lost the keel & flipped etc. We went from sunny calm bliss, peace and serenity to 45 degrees pitching / tipping and potential sinking in a matter of NANO seconds. Hardest part for comms was switching on the GPS to get exact lat & long in decimals of a minute.

 

"Over"

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An example of comms helping to cause trouble and embarrassment when there was no real danger: the S and R cop who went "missing" in the tararua ranges in May was updating his position with a Spot tracker, but the OK signal was stopped by wet trees etc. He didn't know and thought no one would be worried about him. They ended up searching for him, and he set off an epirb once he realized they were looking, just to shorten their search. He was in no real trouble at all, just late because of bad weather.

 

The search might have happened anyway as he was late out of the bush, but the lack of comms when people were expecting to hear from him wound things up a bit.

 

We take a cellphone and VHF on a sail in the harbour with he scouts, but we never call anyone with them.

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I'm not so worried about only 4-5 provisions, they can go a few days without food. The comment I saw today was that they had missed "planned contact" with their family, which to me is the giveaway that people were right to get worried back when they did - contrary to comments made here that everyone was worrying prematurely. But we forum spectators always know best, don't we... :roll:

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