Absolution 7 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 KM, do you think your skinny noodle rig with no jumpers will be able to handle a pull down to 90 degrees? Maybe you could get someone to calculate the rig load before you do it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 @ JohnMi - not EE we did it on - Black Fun when she only had 220kg on the bulb..... She got there though - with plenty of stability and some more to burn. Just a bit twitchy to handle when it got bouncy. EE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Pretty much the same way a Open 60 does Fish. If it's good enough for a 60ft pure breed extreme race yacht that has one person on it deep into the roaring 40's one would expect is good enough for the average everyday boat that will never be in as an extreme a situation like that, don't you agree? The boat is in race mode and nothing will be touched, moved or changed from what it would be if I was actually using it in a race, inc a knot tied in liferaft. I will lock the motor up, as it would be in a race. I am keen to see what happens in that area as it is a concern. Correct, nothing bar actually going and finding a Cyclone will be 100% accurate as the variables are so many and varied, something I'm confident in saying isn't in the calculations either. Just like the Calcs a pull down is only a indication but unlike the calcs I will be able to see what happens and how it happens so it will give far more insite as to the characteristics of how she behaves going down and then back up again. Note the confidence I have she will come back..... he says thinking I fecking hope she does, could be a huge cock-up if she doesn't, best do it in shallow water I think. Reading the rules it looks like I have to calculate my STIX to get a IMS to make sure my ISO 12217-2 is all good. To me that may as well say go find a really really big African Homosexual and see how far he can jamb his dick up my arse while his boyfriend tickles him with a dead cat. It's meaningless now and will be equally so 500nm from land in 6 or 100kts of wind. Knowing what the boat will do from seeing it with my own eye won't be and if the situation arises I maybe able to do something to mitigate any short comings that maybe seen. What will 117.5897 tell me and what could I do to make that work better in real life, jump left, jump right or just stick my head between my legs and kiss my by now heavily stressed arsehole goodbye? Anyone want to do the Calcs and then stack them up against reality? It's only physics so shouldn't be hard for the number crunchers out there KM, do you think your skinny noodle rig with no jumpers will be able to handle a pull down to 90 degrees? Most of it, knot to sure about the top bit though. And we prefer the term Spaghetti over Noodles, it sounds more Italian and Ferrari like rather than Chinese and a Rickshaw. I may push the masthead down as far as I dare i.e. more than 115 degrees, knot too keen on bailing her out or doing a Navman waterproof test Hey, why knot and it could be very interesting. I've had the mast in the water a couple of time already but knot one occurrence was in what you could call 'in a controlled manner'. Looking at doing it around lunch on Sunday in Baywater. Your welcome to come and watch.... bring a bucket just in case I'm horribly wrong. I'll update Sunday morning if it's all on or knot. I'll video it all for you amazement, amusement or the MNZ accident investigation team Quote Link to post Share on other sites
otto 31 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Leave E boat keels out of it KM, I'll come help you do the pull down test, it could be most amusing. Tickets on sale, do i need a grandstand If you are going to do a pull down test don't forget to put plenty of heavy loose items inside to shift about and slow it coming back up, you, a mate and a couple of slabs of beer should about cover it Not this one, it'll froth the beer and spill the rum, but i'm sure D2 would be up for the ride Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 There are 2 types of righting tests. The open 60's do they tests completely empty, no rig, just the skipper on board to manually cant the keel to start the righting movement. Not sure but the VO70's may be done this way as weel. The Class 40's and 950's are light ships with rigs, they are craned over and the scales/load cells attached to the mast head. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Don't suppose anyone has got an idea what sort of load it may take to pull her over i.e. a few dudes on a string, one steak n cheese pie or ????? I'm picking 2 dudes can do it easily, that's a good whack less than 200kg....... so I'm gonna calling at 100kg. Any one guessing I'm wrong? Oh Great Rabbit Hunter, what say you? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Don't suppose anyone has got an idea what sort of load it may take to pull her over i.e. a few dudes on a string, one steak n cheese pie or ????? I'm picking 2 dudes can do it easily, that's a good whack less than 200kg....... so I'm gonna calling at 100kg. Any one guessing I'm wrong? Oh Great Rabbit Hunter, what say you? G'day 'K-M' - My 'guess' is 357 kg - to get it over the ' hull form' stability curve - them your personal 'apendage' only to hold it down. Ciao, jj Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Absolution 7 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 About 110kg to hold it down. It's a 930 so I'm not sure that there will be that much form stability to overcome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B00B00 310 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 My guess would be under 150kg. A thompson 750 is around 80kg from the masthead, they have a 400kg bulb at 2.2m Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 so is there a bottle of rum on for the 90 degree hold down value? My guest 100kg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B 106 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'd like to see someone measuring that hold down value. What you do is remove a few kilos at a time until ooooooooo helllllllliiii. Maybe it'd be best to just estimate how far Knots would fly. I'm betting oo, 10 metres past the breakwater.( yeah thats right , aim it away from the car park.) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Knot much in my archives, but this is a 950 been tested. There is a video around somewhere, I;ill get looking. On the bigger boats a crane attached to the keel to tip them over. It looks like the 950 is pulled over from the rig. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
smithy09 50 Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I'd like to see someone measuring that hold down value. What you do is remove a few kilos at a time until ooooooooo helllllllliiii. Maybe it'd be best to just estimate how far Knots would fly. I'm betting oo, 10 metres past the breakwater.( yeah thats right , aim it away from the car park.) Nah, KM isn't that much of a Luddite no matter what he would have you believe. He has a couple of loadcells he could use to get a very accurate figure... KM, what's this obsession with big African Homosexuals?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 I will be measuring loads as I'm 99% sure common sense will knot prevail and someone will want to calculate what we have already found out anyway. So whoever does better be good as if their number varies from reality I may just say something....... if I can get over my shyness that is Very large African homosexuals and a STIXS number are about the same use to me and probably most yachties. Both the African and STIX number are both about butt covering Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted September 22, 2011 Share Posted September 22, 2011 Check your spreaders first.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 using a turfer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
markm 30 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 KM, trigonometry isn't a strong suit which I may well now prove, but to validate an AVS of over 115 degrees in the real world, wouldn't the top of your rig be a few metres under the water and might you need divers? If you only go to 90 or a smidgeon above, aren't you just doing what the calculations do, a simulation with some assumptions? If you do go to 115 or 120, might be best to get MS to drop this thread before you put in the insurance claim, think it may be messy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Murky 1 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 "In this episode of Barry Goes Boating, Barry demonstrates the ways in which a straightforward stability test can go off the rails." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Check your spreaders first....Oh sh*t, why do you say that, what have I forgotten/missed/about to feck up?? Yes Mark it sure looks like we will be checking the waterproofness of the masthead light, which I may add is a very important safety item......... and can't be calculated. We are going to see how far we can push the mast under before it wants to carry on in it's own right. More for our interest to suss a few other things that may/could be in play should the boat be at that sort of an angle. But 115 degrees shouldn't have masthead under that far I don't think, we'll see. I have levels, scales, video and lots of stuff to measure and note things with. Again calculations are theoretical, I prefer actual and actual is a lot quicker and easier to do than theoretical in my case. Besides I do actually know how they calculate up, it was done years ago Assuming it all goes well that will be good, if it doesn't it may make Murky look a bit like a Prophet Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rocket Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I (with help) have dropped a 930 rig trying to heel it by sitting on the boom. Strikes me pulling it down is a bit similar - peel a spreader off, the rig will go out of column and down she will come... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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