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Kiwi led world speed record


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Drag simply is two areas

- Form drag, this is measrued by the frontal area

- surface drag, this is surface friction

 

Form drag is what it is and you can't change it other than making the object smaller

 

Surface drag is made from laminar flow, and turbulant flow about a boundry layer of air or water moving over and around the object.

 

simply put the sparrowhawk glider will have nearly the same form drag as the pw5 ( all/most gliders have cockpits that fit fat barsteds like me in them) and there frontal profile will be very close.

the sparrowhawk is a more streamline shape and has a retractable wheel, so will have better laminar flow than the pw5. that said you wont be needing the landing gear on either glider so these could be removed from the pw5 and the fuse faired making it a whole lot better.

 

When you crash you wont be worring about the drag :lol:

 

DHRB45 will have his own budgets in mind, and could get 5 pw5's for one new sparrowhawk.

 

If I bought lotto tickets and won, I would be tempted in the Duckhawk http://www.windward-performance.com/ , very nice looking machine

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OK, so can anybody recommend a person / persons or consultancy, who has specialist knowledge, and interest / passion in this field of applied design and dynamics? Somebody who can take a set of design criteria, and model them, using software. I am not concerned with foil design presently, but more with C of E, foil placement, mast angle, optimum length, width, weight - these sort of things ..

 

Any ideas - or offers folks ?? DHRB

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Yes, we have a basic design (see thread) - and yes, have a budget.

 

To recap; the idea is to:

- use 'LongShot' type configuration, to use as basis for design development

- use twin windsurfing rigs - utlising 25 years of advancement (since Longshot original rig)

- use foils - introducing recent advancement in dealing with cavitation issues.

 

The approach, therefore, is to take a simple, proven, world-record concept as a starting point. And to use use software to design an incrementally 'better Longshot', with a more efficient 'balance of forces', and which uses recent advances in knowledge, rigs and foils ..

 

Remember: Longshot still has the Class A record - of 43 knots - set in 1992 .. and I believe, nay, know that it can be bettered ..

 

My objective at this point is to generate interest, whilst slowly piece together a team of persons committed to 'making it happen'. Cheers.

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Get yourself a copy of 'Aero-Hydrodynamics of Sailing' by C.A.Marchaj

 

Have a read, try some numbers, build yourself a rough foundation on paper, then go talk to a designer

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Thanks chap. That sounds good advice - and I shall do exactly that.

 

An interesting development: I have been in discussion with a very experienced person, who has been involved with several international attempts of various kinds, ncluding Americas cup, and an Aussie world sailing speed record attempt, and Jet Black - the Kiwi led land record attempt see http://www.jetblack.co.nz/. By the way - they are trying to raise 30 million $s for the attempt .. 30 mill !!

 

His view was that, in order to have a realistic crack at the record, a fully organised campaign would be required. A big $ campaign. And perhaps he is right. Reckons I would have a lot of fun with a Longshot type attempt - but that realistically, records didnt come easily.

 

And perhaps he is right .. What do you think ?

 

See, I still go back to Longshot - it still has the Class A record, and a windsurfer / kiteboard still cuts the mustard against the multi million $ attempts like Hydroptere ..

 

Thoughts please ??

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FIRST: Watch Burt Munro film The Fastest Indian. On DVD, so well worth 3+ viewings to see and learn more. The mental approach, rather than the hollywood style stuff.

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See, I still go back to Longshot - it still has the Class A record, and a windsurfer / kiteboard still cuts the mustard against the multi million $ attempts like Hydroptere ..

It depends on exactly what record yoiu are going for. You are not going to sail across the Atlantic/Pacific on a Kiteboard if that is the kind of record. You are not considered a "boat" being a windsurfer/Kiteboarder and so on.

$30mill is realistic if you are wanting to biuld the fastest sailboat. I would say if you haven't got a 4 or 5mill for your own project, forget it. You are going to be looking at a few hundred K for designs and re-designs. You need a Hull of whatever design and it needs to be light and strong so Carbon fibre is obvious. There goes a lot of dosh right there. You need the best there is in hightech lightweight strong rigging and fittings. The "longshot" approach is something that takes years and years of play and trying and altering and playing till you start to get what you want. The big budget approach is for those that want to achieve it right now.

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I'm with you DHRB & PaulR. You'll be able to achieve something for sure. If you're talking within the classification that Longshot did it then I reckon it's a simple as buying a Trifoiler and modifying it to take solid wings instead of windsurfer sails. And yes with absolutely no experience, but a firm belief that we know wings are more efficient than windsurfer sails so all things being equal it will go faster. Somehow you might want to locate the original designer, Ketterman? He was waaaaaay waaaaay ahead of his time when he did the trifoiler.

 

Looking for a test pilot? I'm your man. A great way to fly or die!

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LongShot achieved 43 knots in 92. See, I reckon the configuration has unfulfilled potential ..

 

Am I being naive, or could a suitably experienced aero / yacht engineer, using modelling software to model the forces in an evening to come up with a more efficient overall package ?

 

Thinking; optimum sized windsurfer sails for a given width & weight / optimum mast rake / positioning of C/E / positioning of mast step to foil appendage / overall positioning of cross brace forward / aft positioning on central pod.

 

I mean, we are talking about incrementally 'bettering" an existing configuration; generating a more efficient balance of forces. i.e. desiging, not constructing.

 

Can it be that difficult to a suitable trained / experienced person ?

Does anybody know such a person ??

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Am I being naive, or could a suitably experienced aero / yacht engineer, using modelling software to model the forces in an evening to come up with a more efficient overall package ?

 

Can it be that difficult to a suitable trained / experienced person

 

No not naive, just probably a little optimistic about the costs of that sort of thing, although the size and cost of computers that are capable of that kind of computations has gone down, id still think it would be reasonably expensive exercise.

 

Maybe take a look at the different speed projects that have gone on recently, all have different approaches and all probably think their way is right.

Getting the design and calculations right is only one part of the mission

 

Good luck!

If you havnt succeeded in a few years time, ill have graduated engineering and be quite willing to be involved in a world speed sailing record

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Am I being naive, or could a suitably experienced aero / yacht engineer, using modelling software to model the forces in an evening to come up with a more efficient overall package ?

Once again, it depends on what you want to achieve. Are you wanting to be serious at this, or simply have fun trying to go real fast. To majorly big differences and that is why one has a major price tag.

Modeling software does not biuld you a boat. You can draw a boat. then you have to have information to put into your design. As they say, the computer is only as good as the information being put into it. Or said anbother way, drawing a boat on a screen ends up with the picture of a Boat on a screen. It is nothing without data. Data does not come from the software package. Data comes from what you have modeled. So you have two choices. Biuld a model and test it with sensors that you can gleen that data from, or biould a ream machine with sensors that you can gleen that data from. Eitherway, you need Data to put into your computer model or it is "dumb". It is just a nice drawing on the screen.

Or the otherway to do it is forget the computer modelling and simply bild a boat and play and try different things, which I think is where your budget maybe.

Actually, a real good film to watch is called "Wind". It is about the Americas cup back in the earlier days when a low budget campaign had a shot. They set about testing sails and stuff out in the desert of some old disused Airforce Base. It shows just what effort went into trying to come up with wht they needed. Awesome film.

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OK thanks. You are making a strong point here - only this time I gettit :) I had assumed (hoped) that software existed which could model the forces on a design.

 

Thats OK. This is a journey ..

One thing - and I dont mean to be, ah, rude - how confident do you reckon we can be that this sort of aero / nautical modelling / design software doesnt exist ? This is not my field of knowledge - which is why I am seeking to establish. Cheers - and thanks. DHRB

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if you google jaun k and 650, you should find a youtube of him talking about that design. he shows the size of his computer sever and he shows the boat sailing in waves as a computor model. so yes it is possible - but at what cost ?

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if you google jaun k and 650, you should find a youtube of him talking about that design. he shows the size of his computer sever and he shows the boat sailing in waves as a computor model. so yes it is possible - but at what cost ?

 

At what cost, and how accurate is it?

Its easy enough to say right the waves will be this big, and from this direction, and to model that, but to model the oceans is an entirely different thing all together

 

Good video though!

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Manukau Harbour beside the seweage ponds, rather than in them. :eh:

 

Whangarei: The reaches up to the western / southern side = Shell & Portland Reaches

 

Dunedin: Aramoana Spit

 

Bluff: Harbour by the smelter and north of Bluff.

 

All are subject to wind availability but have shallow sheltered water, with not much obstructions or blanketing hills; but sometimes the hills can funnel the wind down just when and how you need it.

 

Afterall, you only need say 500m + starting / finishing areas.

 

OR

 

:roll:

 

Anywhere that floats your boat :shh:

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