Guest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Agree with you AC but; "Cos no cruiser in his right mind would try to continue slamming to windward in these conditions - they'd back off/hove to/find shelter/run with it (take your pick) therefore not expose the boat to the same stresses that racers do for such extended periods." No cruiser would be setting of in these conditions but would wait to run up on the back of the low. It is interesting to see that these boats are getting similar conditions to the race in '09, is this a trend? wrong time to run the race? It is meant to be a downhill slide but hasnt seem to be for a while now.... Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Its a down hill slide for the Aussies! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 So either the boats need to get even stronger or race crews need to back off earlier? Probably a bit of both also the differing dynamic on each yacht, things like having a pushy owner on board can make a big difference. I am impressed with the performance of TVS. Sitting in the viaduct it looks a powerful but somewhat fragile machine but obviously someone designed and built that boat for some serious offshore bashing (the French again?) so don't they set the benchmark for the perfect speed/weight/strength/crew combo? Not necessarily - TVS is quick enough to get around the racetrack and avoid the real nasties, they haven't experienced some of what the monos have. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I'm a little disappointed in the organisers deleting stuff about Icebreaker withdrawing like it never happened. If they retire and then change their mind and decide to stop and repair/check that's cool but be up front and do a new release about it. Don't try and reverse time by deleting earlier releases. If something does go wrong its really bad but the smoke and mirrors makes it look even worse from the outside. Luckily Icebreaker appears to be around 20nm from Norfolk so that's a great outcome. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 oops - I needed to expand the Facebook page to see some older posts - please disregard the above post - the Icebreaker release is still there. My Bad. Link to post Share on other sites
BvanVugt 0 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It is interesting having Steinlager 2 as part of a fleet where boats are breaking. I was part of the build team 23 years ago. From memory she is 35mm foam in the slamming areas, Nomex on the topsides, and Carbon and kevlar on the skins. I'd guess 30% kevlar, either in uni's with carbon or cloth. No skin ties. All prepreg, vacuumed and cooked laminate, much like today's systems. She has held together (at least I haven't heard otherwise) in all this time. So it would appear it is not the material, but the amount of laminate going in. Or the lack of kevlar, to give the skin more slam tolerance... From my observations, and as far as i know: It has alot to do with the shapes of the boats too. If you look at the bow sections of Steinlager 2 she has a much finer entry with flared topsides, compared to the almost flat bows, and square topsides of modern race boats. While being fast, flat bows increase the slamming loads on the panel by a huge amount. This is typically what causes core failure in the bow, like we are seeing in the Volvo boats. So im guessing the modern boats are probably built stronger, but the loading they are seeing is also comparatively massive. Interesting to note is that typically it isnt the actual laminate that fails, but it is the bonding between the core and laminate that shears, causing core failure which leads to the laminate failing. This is all of course rather off topic. Hope everyone out there stays safe and well. Im looking forward to the stories once they all return, its the closest i can get to being there for now Link to post Share on other sites
markm 30 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 EE, while I think your point on being quick enough to get around bad weather is very valid, don't forget TVS (as Geant) survived the Rout Du Rhum 2003 (excuse spelling and probably the year). That one made most things look pretty placid, 70kts or so average in the Bay of Biscay, seriously trashed the multis which was probably not a surprise, but it did also manage to break a not insignificant tanker in two iirc. Superb sailor on board but the boat can't be too bad either. Link to post Share on other sites
BvanVugt 0 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 From Jason ker sailing anarchy We have had a call with Icebreaker earlier today. They have two keel nuts (out of 12) that have turned relative to the marks they made on them but like most boats they aren't carrying a big enough wrench and extender to torque them up. Normally a full torque load is enough to keep nuts done up so its unusual to find them coming loose if they've been fully torqued recently. I very much sympathise with Icebreaker team who had fought hard in tough conditions to get themselves into contention before retiring, its a shame such a capable team didn't get the chance to add an Auckland-Noumea title to the IRC nationals and other titles they've won recently. http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index. ... 702&st=100 So apparantly they haven't retired but only need to tighten up some keel bolts? Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Not necessarily - TVS is quick enough to get around the racetrack and avoid the real nasties, they haven't experienced some of what the monos have. Mmmmm, they might have avoided this race's worst nasties but they've been caught in real mbad stuff before haven't they e.g. one of their Tasman crossings a few months ago on the way to Hamilton Race week, if I recall rightly? And in it's previous life as Geant G3, TVS has taken on some pretty gnarly stuff racing offshore... Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The underwater shape of offshore race boats has changed a lot in 40 years also. 1990's Elliott designs have a rep for slamming in a chop, but the way they slam in nothing campared to the new boats with flat forward sections and minimal hull rocker. You can argue that Steinlarger 2 or starlight are both upwind boats. M1 or the older TP's are somewhere in between. The the likes of Beau Gest or the Ker 40 are pushed more towards off the wind work. So depending on how the boat is moded, really dictates the construction. If you built the likes of BG from tripple skin kauri, it would wobble over the waves and fall apart just as quick. Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 EE, you have to take whats posted even on official sites with a grain of salt As we found in the RNZ, you only have to say that your seeking shelter to sort a problem that if your unable to fix you may need to withdraw, to then arrive in Golden Bay with cranes on standby as 3 boats are sinking and have all withdrawn. Its called Chinese whispers and people trying to be helpfully If there in imminent danger they will issue a May Day, but even then this can and often is downgraded. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 RAYC in conjunction with Maritime NZ and the Rescue Coordination Centre will post any official information on the sailnoumea.com website as and when it is available. Matthew Woodley Commodore Royal Akarana Yacht Club Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 looks like from the tracker, that Ice Breaker is now safe at the island, though now looks like ilothante is heading that way too? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 looks like from the tracker, that Ice Breaker is now safe at the island, though now looks like ilothante is heading that way too? Cant find any info on if they are aiming for dry land, but I did find this from this morning skeds Had medical situation onboard last night. But they have a competent doctor onboard who was able to sort the matter. No assistance required Link to post Share on other sites
Aussie 0 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Submitted by Suellen Hurling on Thu, 07/06/2012 - 12:41 It's been a long 24 hours for the crew on the Ker40 Icebreaker and we can now confirm that they have officially retired from the race and are safely anchored at Norfolk Island. Icebreaker originally suspended racing and made the decision to head to Norfolk Island to address the loose keel bolt issue. On their way there they suffered another blow resulting in damage to the forward bulk head. They are now unable to continue racing. Royal Akarana Yacht Club Race Management team worked together with Martime New Zealand Rescue Coordination Center and were communicating regularily with the crew. At 1200 hours Thursday 7 June, Paul Stubbs contacted RAYC and RCC via Sat Phone to give the final confirmation of their safe arrival and then advised to announce their retirement. All the crew are safe and well and will assess the boats situation. RAYC will continue to provide updates. The tracker from Beau Geste will be transfered to Icebreaker. http://www.sailnoumea.com/news/nz-updat ... icebreaker Link to post Share on other sites
Aussie 0 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Continued: Starlight Express were instructed by RCC to follow Icebreaker and are also on their way to Norfolk Island. There the crew will rest overnight before continuing to Auckland, New Zealand on Friday 8 June. Link to post Share on other sites
ex Elly 197 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 The tracker shows that Carrera have retired. "Lost all navigation equipment. Heading back to Auckland." Maybe all their charts blew overboard? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 intersting that they didn't even hav a back up hand held gps?....powered by batteries...i.e not off the ships power? Link to post Share on other sites
chic014 0 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 How do they know which way to NZ is if they don't know which way to Noumea? Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Probably more that they are not so keen to take on sailing through the reefs etc entering Noumea without Navigation gear? I certainly wouldnt, but would sail into Auckland or Opua for example without it no problem at all. Link to post Share on other sites
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