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How long is your safety harness tether?


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Just had a look at the YNZ site for safety regs, they say no longer than 2m, sounds like heaps to get over the side, particularly if, like most, the lines run down the toerail?

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You'd have done a lot more miles with one on than I have. Last time I used mine, I was single-handing and had to go up to the mast to shake out a reef - 2m would have been about right to allow me to step up on to the cabin-top and unhook the reefing eye from the horns. And/or go over the side as you say. Is it possible to have one (enough length to stand upright and work) without the other?

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Go to see Jono, Safety at Sea.

 

They have tethers with 3 clips, one tether short, the other longer.

 

Look at Cat 1 Regs where 3 clips are specified.

 

Unfortunately 3 clips cost more than 2 clips but that's progress for you :thumbup:

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Here's what I found

 

(e) Each tether or safety line to be no

longer than 2m. X X X

(f) A mid point snap hook is permitted in

2m tether. X X X

(g) 3 hook tethers to be carried for 1/3 of

the crew.

 

Ignoring the obvious like "what's 1/3 of two people" and "what happens to the other 2/3 - let the buggers drown"

I'm just curioouus as to what actually works.Harnesses are one piece of safety equipment I can get quite fond of, so let's make them as practical as possible, for instance i prefer the jackstay down the centreline of the boat.

What got me thinking was 2m of tether and most jacklines running along the toerail won't stop you going over.

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Yep, just prior to wild chinese gybe knowing my luck.

 

Just trying to think it through to see what is best, probably two hooks, one really short for working with both hands, one longer for travelling up and down the deck, but I'm still undecided on where to put the jacklines.

I do know that I hate the "wire toerail" on AA, it's a death trap for the unwary.

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Not real wire? :shock:

 

I see that the regs prescribe that the jackstays need to be "port and starboard of the centre line" but that still leaves a fair bit up to personal choice i.e. there is presumably nothing to stop you having them 50mm to port and starboard (assuming that they meet the other requirement) or right on the gunwhale as you mention, Squid.

 

Personally I have opted to run them inside the shrouds (where there is room to pass both sides) to encourage the more inboard route up the side deck. In the event of going over the side, that would bring me to a halt amidships rather than going all the way aft. I can't say I have a plan from there however! There is potentially an interesting discussion to be had, in the context of other threads which have suggested that if you go overboard even with a harness on, you are screwed. If so, it seems to me that there is room for improvement in the regs to give clearer guidance on whether the main objective is to prevent the wearer going over the side in the first place. Some now choose to carry a knife to cut themselves free if they do go over the side but that is not currently recommended or even noted in the regs.

 

I guess what I am saying is that I don't recall reading about the experiences of anyone who has gone over and been dragged and what they did - I think that would be interesting.

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My tether is a 2 only hooker and probably only 12-1300mm long. Good length and the right number of clips, for me anyway as that harness is nearly a family heirloom so very well known to it's user now. It's about to be load tested due to age and interest. Hopefully the result isn't one of those that make you very happy you didn't have to use it for real last Simrad :?

 

Knot 'real wire' meaning just what then?

 

Like Murky my lines run inside the shrouds but above the checks. That's the biggest hole to get through and if someone does go splash it should keep them closer to the boat. No way in anyones wild dreams will mine lines, as legal as they are, stop you going over the side if you cock-up. I'm struggling to remember a boat I know whose lines would stop someone going over but then I haven't really looked that hard to be honest. I suppose if mine ran close to centreline they would but then they would be total crap to actually use.

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Knot 'real wire' meaning just what then?

Meaning surely a typo? and in reality, if not webbing as the ideal, then it is one of the other braid-type options as previously suggested by our resident bondage expert. (Which will hopefully be showing up in the archived threads at some stage).

 

Bloody nasty stuff that wire, quick to throw you over the side if you step on it and alternatively another threat to the family jewels if you go for a skate.

 

I'm struggling to remember a boat I know whose lines would stop someone going over but then I haven't really looked that hard to be honest. I suppose if mine ran close to centreline they would but then they would be total crap to actually use.

Brings you to an interesting question doesn't it? If we agree going overboard has a high probability of ending badly...but we know our gear isn't going to stop us going overboard... :wtf:

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The problem I see is that there needs to be a compromise between the ideal (allowing you to get up to the rail, but not over it) and the practical (a single jackline per side, clip on once and run forrard without having to unclip/reclip).

 

Having centre jacklines would help prevent you actually going over the side, but you'd be constantly unclipping and clipping on again as you got around things. The 3 clip tethers would be good in that situation because you could clip on to the new spot (using the 3rd clip) before unclipping and you'd always be clipped on .... rather than the alternative which is unclip, get around the obstacle and then clip on again. Murphy would surely send a wave to sweep you off the deck right when you're unclipped and negotiating the obstacle.

 

On our boat we've got inboard shrouds so we've got nice clear side decks, but a jackline would have to run outside the shrouds - which is way too close to the rail to prevent you from going over the side. A centreline set up would have us unclipping to go forward of the shrouds. So which is safer?

 

My plan is to clip on (important), hang on (really important) and don't go over the side again (most important!).

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With my 2 hooker there is no where above deck I can't get too while hooked on so i don't need a 3rd clip getting in the way, the joys of having a real boat only tiny.

 

And having been over the side more times than is good, which is only 2 by the way. The 1st time you go over it is good as you learn why you should hang on tighter, the 2ndand there after times you go over is a pure cock-up though. I didn't have any problem and was unlikely to drown that quick. One occasion I got hauled by by the crew but the other times I got up myself via boarding platform or stern ladder. BUT and this could be a the biggie, none of the times I've gone over was on a super highspeed run. I suspect trying to get back on something like Speedboat when on a reach would be bloody hard. All of my splashes were at slowish to average speed, on leadswingers that is. Canned of the skiffs a few times, which is a totally differing kettle of pain and swimming speed.

 

As to short verse long tethers. Short means it may pull you up before you go full over but then if you did go over I think I'd like a long tether to give more wiggle room. If you are over on a short one it would be a lot harder to turn around/over or whatever and it'd make manoeuvring your bode around the transom a bit trickier I think.

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This post on CF is what got me thinking

 

there was a husband and wife team sailing to New Zealand from the South Pacific, and the husband went overboard while wearing his safety harness. The tether was long enough for him to be dragged in the water beside the yacht, but there was too much freeboard for him to pull himself back on board. The wife was not strong enough to pull him back on board, and he drowned as he dragged in the water beside the yacht. The New Zealand Air Sea Rescue had to lower someone down to the yacht to help the wife get the boat safely into port, and to recover the body of the husband.

 

I also know of a Japanese guy who went over single handing and was dragged for quite a while before having a grandstand view of his boat sailing on to the Great Barrier Reef.

 

 

Got more to say on this but have a meeting

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wife my not have been physically strong enough but surley you could pass a spare halyard down, he could clip onto the harness and winch him up?

 

going over alone could be a spot of bother.

 

iv got a 3 hooker so a long and short...can only just kneel with the short one. bloody good when doing a hanked headsail change...

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The trend towards higher topsides is a worry if you fall over. Even my old shitter has topsides that high you'd be buggered trying to climb back aboard but I do have a fold down ladder easily grab-able on the back.

 

Many of the newer boats do have the cut out transoms which is handy but have a close look and most have nothing to grab to pull yourself even over a low level bit on the stern. All eletrick auto-pilots so no scaffolding to grab out the back much any more. All shiney slippery glass molded, looks pretty and is easy to clean but anything to grab? Knot much at all often. Many have ladder but tucked away and hard to use in a time of drama.

 

I think I would make sure there was some way of at least getting a good handhold of some sort so you could 'unload' your harness for manoeuvres or comfort or just to take a breath while you or the crew got the excrement together to finish the pull back aboard.

 

I'd also be making sure that if you did fall off there was a way to get back on. I get the impression on the odd occasion many take the effort to wear harness's and so on but don't think too much about what would happen after you went over, harnessed or knot.

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Coming from a rock climbing and mountaineering background, much of the harness/tether/jackstays arrangement - (and I'll restrict myself to the equipment as opposed to the system it's used in - that's another story) - scares the pants off me.

 

For one thing, what is the safety rating (ie strength in kN), of the clips on the tether? There is simply no way in the climbing world that one could find safety equipment of this nature that doesn't have a safety rating - and the same can be said for any sewn webbing slings/connectors or harnesses. And for that matter, why are most of the clips I've seen on commercially made up tethers, not even marked with the manufacturer's name? More importantly, why are the clips, which are often going to be used on flat (tubular) 25mm webbing jackstays, stamped from stainless steel, with a resulting 90 degree edge on them (well two actually...)? Looking pretty good for cutting through a jackstay under load...

 

It could be that in climbing, falling is an accepted and commonplace occurence, and gear needs to reflect that, the standard (or lack thereof) of sailing safety equipment doesn't pass muster at all.

 

A bit of interesting info on the topic here (thanks Google) http://www.ussailing.org/safety/H&T/summary_page.htm - my favourite bit:

 

"The dynamic testing yielded the most noteworthy results. 8% of the harnesses failed the test (one a prototype), while fully 47% of the tethers failed the test."

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Hi All

We sell 2 hook which are less than 2m, 2 hook 1m tethers which are an Australian invention, and 3 hook as described above. ISAF regs state 30% of crew must have 3 hook, YNZ recommend it. Our advice is to have a couple of 3 hook on board or consider it if you are running around the boat - particularly bigger boats.

We recommend the short tether for work at the bow or mast, swapping from 1 deadeye to another, or if relatively stationary at the wheel or cockpit.

Most injuries in the cockpit or people going through the lifelines are in knockdowns or uncontrolled gybes. Too many people end up on the leeward winch and the short tether restricts that.

3 hooks are heavier, and personally I still use a 2 hook. However having a 3 hook or 1m tether accessable, or at the wheel is a good option on passage.

 

Also

There is a EN standard for tethers. Many of the tethers sold in chandleries do not have this certification. The ones built by Frank Warnock are ok but there is some rubbish out there - even amongst some of those (nominally) certified. The other cool thing is the overload tab. This ensures you have evidence the tether hasn't been loaded up in the past - either through proper or improper use. Date stamps are becoming common to and are required on EN tethers

 

Re the recovery aspect.

Recovery slings are designed for pulling people in on a halyard or sheet winch. Some have extra tabs to pull it tight around the person so they don't slip out. All boats should have a decent boarding ladder for conscious people, if they can't yell just grind them in - at least you have them on board.......

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Did a trial a few years back. We have a sugar scoop and walk through transom. Our harnesses are combined with manual inflation lifejackets, our tethers 1.5 metre clipped to jackstays either side outboard the shrouds.

Made sure we had a strong male onboard in case it all went pear shaped but wanted the missus to see what would happen (me too).

Hopped over the side at 5 knots just by the shrouds, tether fouled on stanchions so I couldn't reach the stern an couldn't pull myself up, even with her assistance whilst underway. Did a bodgy mod to the stanchions (read lots of duct tape) and tried again. Got to the stern and got aboard underway without assistance.

Tried it again after popping the lifejacket and f... me. Straight on my back and the tether hooked around my head and slammed it into the hull. Scary stuff even under a controlled situation. I have no doubt I would have drowned if I had been alone on deck.

Stanchions now don't foul tethers and we are not in the market for auto inflate jackets.

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Some good info coming through and well done Mr Wederell on being one of the few to have tried it - very valuable experience and thanks for sharing it. :clap:

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Too right. !

You know, i untill reading this, i had never actually considered that the safety harness tether was to stop you falling overboard. I just thought it was so that when you did fall in, you were still attached. ??

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What I had before was a single line down the centreline (it dangled into the hatch enough to hook on before exiting) as far as the mast, then two along the rails from the mast to the bow. I liked it, still do. I don't mind unclipping once at the mast.

 

But just wondering if there is a better solution, great to hear Pete's story, still don't want to go over period.

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