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Winter Series


johnMi

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Send it, In that sense you are right, you can protest for any alleged breach of a rule.

 

Whether you succeed is another matter.

 

Putting things another way if Taiping had protested CC for luffing before the start I think it would have been dismissed as,

until the start there is no such thing as a proper course and CC could go up or down as it wanted to, and;

Taiping as both overtaking and windward boat had to keep clear of the leeward boat.

 

Oh and RRS 18 dosn't apply to Start marks.

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Taiping as both overtaking and windward boat had to keep clear of the leeward boat.

Ah ... I have got the wrong end of the stick here... :roll:

I though Taiping was the leeward boat who got forced into the pin..... will have to go back and re read the thread properly...

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Mr Wolf,

 

Using the word "cheat" and then being proved wrong - think you owe me an apology, or at least a bottle of the black sweet stuff. ( rather the rum than a few words)

 

What say thou?

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We were the most leeward boat with no starting room - so every other boat in the fleet was in the wrong not going up when called - in my slightly biased option anyway.

 

assuming this is correct - and I've no reason to think a Rev. would lie (or indeed 'cheat') then I think Col. might have miss read the original post. I'm guessing that yes TP could have won that protest. Sounds to me like they did well to miss CC at their own expense - did their turn didn't protest CC (or indeed the rest of the fleet) and carried on with their race. But cheating ?

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Mr Wolf,

 

Using the word "cheat" and then being proved wrong - think you owe me an apology, or at least a bottle of the black sweet stuff. ( rather the rum than a few words)

 

What say thou?

 

Captain Morgan it is then ?

 

Do I think you are a cheat ? Hell no I've never thought that...

the words came from a regular crew on your own boat and a contributor to this thread.

In fact I never saw the incident and had no idea it even occured.

 

i'm just glad that you are alright !

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No no no, the Rev you owe Ryan a bottle of rum for hitting his boat!

 

I was steering Creepy Crawler

 

a. we werent ww boat for more than about 2 secs before you hit us, as there was no overlap

 

b. you never called us up

 

c. you never gave us room to keep clear

 

d. you were passing boat

 

funny thing is before the start I asked the crew were the protest flag was and they said "dont worry about it" however I would have flown it I could find it mainly for insurance purposes. But I did yell protest... :thumbup:

 

Funny thing is even if we had luffed we would have been chopped in two by 888 also doing 23 knots! not the best spot on the start line on my behalf!!!! they only missed us by about 300mm

 

luckily there was no damage it was a glancing blow to CC so all is forgiven however you guys need to be a bit more carefull doing 23 knots on a busy startline is not good practice, especially with a mixed fleet of smaller boats.

 

PS thanks Ryan for lending me your boat and raising the wind limit from 20 knots to 27 knots at the last minute!!!!!!! It was great fun to go yachting rather than sanding!!!

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ye gods,

talk about a brain fart. too much looking at pages full of big words. Forgot that it was a ssw so t was the leeward boat.

Even so it still needs to keep clear of vessels it is passing.

Another thought is that consideration should be given to splitting the multi division into two sections to mirror the split that is evident on the water.

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ye gods,

talk about a brain fart. too much looking at pages full of big words. Forgot that it was a ssw so t was the leeward boat.

Even so it still needs to keep clear of vessels it is passing.

Another thought is that consideration should be given to splitting the multi division into two sections to mirror the split that is evident on the water.

 

This is what we have been wanting because of that exact reason. I was'nt even on my own boat! I think a split fleet is that way to go to prevent matters like this arrising in the future.

 

8.5's and Open fleet.

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The guy sitting on the line has most of the rights, if you come screaming in from behind you have virtually no rights.

 

The reality for the multihulls is that the days of the timed run at speed are all but over.

 

If there are a few boats on the line ( and size doesn't matter) The fast guys need to keep it slow and safe until they have a clear runway.

 

Threading the needle at 20kts plus will get somebody hurt.

 

From the comments here, both Tping and 888 were dangerously close and going too fast?

 

It is all cool until somebody's toy gets demolished.

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Another thought is that consideration should be given to splitting the multi division into two sections to mirror the split that is evident on the water.

 

the majority of the 8.5's back a separate 8.5 start -and have already pitched to the NZMYC race committee for it. It is a crazy situation where a 24foot day sailing tri is racing against a 60foot transatlantic racing tri. You dont see the shaw 6.5's racing against Wired do you? -and neither of those fleets are especially big. it is just a matter of time before a split - either of the fleet or through the middle of some smaller multi by G3/SD/888!

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Taiping couldnt have been more in the wrong in that start and knew it thats why they did their turns, And hats off to them for going straight into it. It was pretty good boat management in a situation like that for both boats to hold course and bump as lightly as they did without damage. But in my eyes and everyone else i have talked to, Taiping came from clear astern, and overtaking boat, Dove through to leeward but failed to keep clear. In that situation there is no obligation for the windward boat to keep clear. We were sailing our proper course.

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the majority of the 8.5's back a separate 8.5 start -and have already pitched to the NZMYC race committee for it. It is a crazy situation where a 24foot day sailing tri is racing against a 60foot transatlantic racing tri. You dont see the shaw 6.5's racing against Wired do you? -and neither of those fleets are especially big. it is just a matter of time before a split - either of the fleet or through the middle of some smaller multi by G3/SD/888!

 

Be interesting to see how SD can split a boat when it's not even racing. As far as the split start goes then yes, perhaps the time has come however for the last season the 8.5's entry list has been pretty lean, all talk no action. A quick look at the summer results show that apart from Deeds, Attitude and latterly Lucifer there hasn't been a lot of consistency in 8.5 fleet numbers.

 

Also splitting the fleet on size (8.5/open) will do little to make the racing closer. The top 8.5's are often right up there with the top open boats. The keelboats of which you give an example are not split on length but on speed. That is why you won't see a 6.5 mixing it with wired. You won't see woolley jumper mixing it with wired either. The gap between taeping and hyper will be just as big as the gap between deeds and putiki so all you are doing is creating 2 unequal fleets instead of one. What you are doing is running a zigzag knife through the fleet under the pretence of creating closer racing but acheiving the reverse.

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splitting the fleet on size (8.5/open) will do little to make the racing closer. The top 8.5's are often right up there with the top open boats. The keelboats of which you give an example are not split on length but on speed.

 

 

What you are doing is running a zigzag knife through the fleet under the pretence of creating closer racing but acheiving the reverse.

 

I agree it is not the perfect way to split the fleet as it stands a handicap split would be fairer on the slow open class boats, however in the long run the only way the 8.5 fleet will build numbers is to have a seperate division, at the moment there is 7 8.5s in the winter series, if they had there own division next year there could easily be double that with new boats being built/finished and sold.

 

Just because DD beats Taeping one race out of 20 should have to race them every time?

 

A sports boat might beat a 50ft keelboat one time in 20 but it would be stupid to put them in the same divison.

 

I think Ideally in the long run it will be three divisions, open multi A, open multi B split by handicap, and 8.5. you would want 25 plus boats racing all the time to do it tho.

 

Id rather race in a small fleet evenly matched 8.5s than in a massive mixed fleet of 9m, 10m, 12m, 14m 16m etc boats on performance based handicap.

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Taiping couldnt have been more in the wrong in that start and knew it thats why they did their turns, And hats off to them for going straight into it. It was pretty good boat management in a situation like that for both boats to hold course and bump as lightly as they did without damage. But in my eyes and everyone else i have talked to, Taiping came from clear astern, and overtaking boat, Dove through to leeward but failed to keep clear. In that situation there is no obligation for the windward boat to keep clear. We were sailing our proper course.

 

 

the only other thing no one has picked up on is that Taeping ran the mark over.

By doing a single turn they have still not passed the start mark on the port side.

they needed to reround the start mark to start correctly unless......

if they could prove CC didn't keep clear when it had to !

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Seems to me that having one big division would be more fun for some, then an unevenly split 2 divisions. I'd prefer one big division (but I'm not at this stage an owner..). Seems to me it would all be fine if the bigger faster multis kept an eye on the rules.

 

Speed is not an excuse.

 

And while I was not even inthe country on saturday (so I wouldn't accuse anyone of anything...) do I read correctly from the comments above that TP hit both CC and the mark, and did only a 360? Or did they do a 360 for each incident? :twisted:

 

EDIT: You just beat me to it Tim!

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From my understanding TP hit the mark with his dolphin striker, so, half his boat went the right side of the start mark, and half went to the left err... wrong side of the start mark so theoretically he should only have neede to do 180 degrees........

:think:

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