ex TL systems 63 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 hi any one tried any of the coppercoat type antifouling products, the ones that claim to work for 10 years plus, we are thinking of using it on a cat moored up the tamaki river where the main problem is slime even on fairly fresh antifoul. seems that over 10 years you would save a lot on haulout hassles. Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 I helped a mate do his boat 5 years ago. He's only had to give it a sane once since then so it's a good idea. Also it's epoxy so should form a good barrier too. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Depends on the water you are in. Copper is only half the equation. Biocide is the other and Epoxy coatings do not have biocide. These coatings also reguire and in fact depend upon regular cleaning and yearly sands to ensure new copper is at the surface. Good for racing hulls as it is hard and can be polished and where most haul and do just that before a race anyway. With a light sand and Polish, the coating should have been applied so as it lasts ruffly the 10yr mark. It's expoensive, but over the ten yrs, it works out on par. What they tend to factor into the cost is the assumption that you would not have to haul the boat out each year for 10yrs. With that added to the savings, then the cost is very small. but in reality, the boat still has to be hauled for cleaning and polishing and also for Anodes. So saying it saves in haul out cost is not being very honest IMO. If you are thinking of it replacing an erroding type AF, you will be disappointed in it's performance. If you have a fast Hull and use a Hard AF already, then you will find it OK. Can't say any better, but at least you don't have to coat each year. Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Depends on the water you are in. Copper is only half the equation. Biocide is the other and Epoxy coatings do not have biocide. Copper is the biocide is it not? Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Copper is the biocide is it not? Oh no. Copper is only one part of most AF's. The "Biocide" is usually a Zinc based compound. Copper is good at taking care of most marine growth and the Zinc compounds take care of the rest. "Epoxy Copper Coat" works a little differently again. It goes through a process of reaction with the Sea water and the chemicals that make up sea water and it is the "corrosion" of the copper that creates the AF property. AS time goes by, the reaction creates another copper compound that easily washes away and thus works at keeping the Hull clean as it moves. But the down side is that the Copper powder is held within a type of Epoxy Resin. So as the Copper particles are used up, a new clean surface needs to be created by abrading the old dead stuff away. There are some other very new and very cool products in use right now and mostly available commercially. If someone is looking at the expense of "Epoxy Copper Coat", then perhaps they should make some inquiries to Hempel and see if there Silicon based AF and other cool stuff is available to the normal Joe Bloggs yet. I personally don't know if it is, but i do know it exists and is used commercially at the moment and is working extremely well. Not cheap, but i don't think any more expensive than "Epoxy Copper Coat". Link to post Share on other sites
Steve Pope 243 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 If you want a zinc based antifoul you have to look at "inversalu" marketed by Meta in France, it is commonly used on alloy and steel hulls in Europe. I have just seen a Belgian boat painted with it at Ray Roberts Marine in Whangarei. The owner has been using it on his circumnavigation and swears by it. Meta has been manufacturing Alloy yachts for many years. Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Wheels…. Bl@@dy handy having someone with your knowledge on the forum! Silicon based AF … sounds interesting… will have to get goggling. what happened to sonic AF or adding hot chilli powder to the AF? Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 Take a look here. http://www.hempel.com/Internet/inecorpo ... Document&1 Disclaimer: I am friends with the NZ branch owner. But I in no way have anything to do with them nor have any financial ties with them. Hmmm, perhaps I should see if they are Stock market listed And these are not the only guys playing with some cool ideas. I believe the US Coastgaurd is playing with a coating they call Epaint. But i don't know what it is. Must ask. With California being against most toxic things in their environment and them also expressing the possible ban of copper, the market is looking for other ideas. Plus copper is darn expensive and only going to get more so. Sonic is a total crock as far as I am concerned. I believe the latest Practicle Boat Owner mag may have an article about it, but i have not gone and picked the mag up yet. So may be wrong. Anyway, i looked into this many years ago and it is utter rubbish. If you can find the ears on Shellish, let me know. Maybe I might believe you if you cna point them out. But as far as I know, the only Plant that has Ears is Corn. And I am pretty sure Corn doesn't grow on the bottem of boats, nor does it hear sound anyway. Chilli and Pepper doesn't work either. You have to have a certain kind of taste bud for that stuff to do anything and Shellfish don't have them. The Zinc compound i wasw refering to as a Biocide is something quite different. I forget what the last name is. I wioll try and hunt it out. But it's a Zinc compound and not Zinc in a pure form. In fact, I have a strong feeling it is the same Zinc compound used in many sunscreens. That gives rise to some though eh. Link to post Share on other sites
TimB 7 Posted April 19, 2010 Share Posted April 19, 2010 If you are talking about the ex Gillfillan, Sawyer designed catamran TL System, nee Double Exposure it already has a copper epoxy on it. When I antifouled it in the 90's for Rex the copper was just ruffed up and "standard" antifoul painted over it. The copper never worked very well in gulf harbour, (grew enourmous mussels though). I very much doubt if anyone has removed the copper epoxy it would be a major task to remove so it is most likely still there under several layers of paint. TimB Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted April 19, 2010 Author Share Posted April 19, 2010 still i have TL systems for sale at the moment Got a link? Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted April 20, 2010 Author Share Posted April 20, 2010 its on trademe.co.nz listing 279174752 or search for catamaran 46 x 26 performance cruising on trademe putting up a link is a bit technical for me Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Take a look here.http://www.hempel.com/Internet/inecorpo ... Document&1 Disclaimer: I am friends with the NZ branch owner. But I in no way have anything to do with them nor have any financial ties with them. Hmmm, perhaps I should see if they are Stock market listed Would be great to try it! can you get hold of some!!??! Link to post Share on other sites
MrWolf 0 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 The Silicon based systems are not suitable for moored boats. Ships use the stuff but are always on the move. If they get stuck in one place it doesn't take long for the barnacles to take over. as to the Coppercoat. it relies on the surface being refreshed by sanding to work. and in some locations the growth will not be affected by copper alone. In some locations Zinc Pyrithione (Biocide) is more effective than Copper. Premium Antifoul also has Biolux as well (Ther Round Up weedkiller of the sea). I have tried all manner of cheap coatings in Westhaven and can not recommend Micron 66 highly enough. It is the only product that really works ! Having said that we race our boat and want a very smooth racing finish which is totally clean. Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 The Silicon based systems are not suitable for moored boats. moored ... moored ! Tigre doesn't stay on her pontoon long enough to be termed moored! Good tip re Micron 66. Link to post Share on other sites
wheels 543 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Would be great to try it! can you get hold of some!!??! At the moment at least, it is commercial only. And as Mr Wolf said, it is designed for hulls on the move. But give it some time and I think we will see these kinds of coatings come into the "domestic" market. Another cool coating being tried at the moment is one that produces slime, like those blind eels. Not in that quantity I hope. But the idea is a continuous barrier of slime that washes away as you travel taking the growth with it. Someone else is playing around with wrinkles. They think the fact that Shark and Dolphin etc that have skin and not scales, don't get fould dues to the wrinkles. Personally I don't think that wrinkles is the reason. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Hello all A few inaccuracies above need to be cleared up in regards to Coppercoat, 1.Coppercoat does not require sanding each year, a yearly water blast is recommended, and a burnish/sand after five years is recommended. 2. Coppercoat does in fact contain a biocide. 3.You do not have to lift each year to clean and change anodes, this again is also inaccurate. Many Coppercoat users stay in for several years at a time. Boats can be scrubbed and anodes changed while still afloat, just using dive equipment. Far cheaper than lifting out! It is important to know Coppercoat is the original copper based epoxy antifoul paint, do note not all copper based epoxy products that have been in existence are the same. Some may not have contained biocide and some may have needed regular abrading, but our Coppercoat is different. Please read the attached report and some pictures of a the boat viewed in Poole Harbour last week that are now 17 years and still going strong. http://coppercoat.com/news In New Zealand the longest so far is 11 years in New Plymouth, also a 42ft Wavecrusher in Buckland’s Beach who only sanded his hull last year after 8 years of Coppercoat, this vessel can be viewed on our website http://www.mecmarine.co.nz/c_gallery2.asp A well known sailing yacht Serengeti is moored at Westhaven, she will be a great example of a fast racing yacht with Coppercoat. Regards MitchC MEC Marine Link to post Share on other sites
Tim C 23 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 I had a copper epoxy antifoul on Pulse at launch, and put up with it for about three years. Sorry I can't recall the brand. I kept it sanded regularly. In the end I was cleaning the boat every week, including scrapping barnacles off it in that time. Decided I had better things to do with my life than scrap my boat every week. Over-coated it with interprotect then Altex Devoe No 5, and have never looked back... Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted April 20, 2010 Share Posted April 20, 2010 Hey Vagabond, I'm glad to see that Tigre is getting used these days. It was a pity to see it sitting on the moorings at Weiti not being used. To be fair they used to use it midweek more that at weekends, but still not much at all. They kept her spick and span though - totally immaculate at all times. Nice boat and beautifully built. Feel free to post some piks if you like! Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Hey Vagabond, I'm glad to see that Tigre is getting used these days.... Hey thanks.... I think they used he a fair bit for cruising. Bob did a beautiful job at building her. She's a lovely boat and I'm having a great time getting used to her. Off out tonight for a practice session. Now that John and I have $100 each at stake I had better beat the bugger in the Squadron series! Clive Link to post Share on other sites
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