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Insuring Multihulls


Megwyn

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I know of others that race without insurance, Timberwolf is one, there will be countless others.

 

 

John, I cannot stand your attitude in this thread or on the race course in general and I 100% support the post and 100% agree with the post above just made by Booboo.

 

Timberwolf does not have full racing cover BUT

Timberwolf has Full cover at all times without Sails hoisted (i.e. at any time or place either under Motor, anchored , Moored or on the Hardstand).

 

Timberwolf has 3rd Party cover at ALL times including when Racing.

 

In fact without the Insurance cover I have I cannot keep my boat at Westhaven, or Haul out at Okahu, or do BOI Race Week or do BMW (all of whom asked for and received a copy of my insurance policy).

 

I really ,really, really, really want Full cover and people like you with an attitude like yours sailing on the same startline mean I'll probably never get it again.

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timw and booboo well said ,good common sense

 

john you have gotta take a breath and think beofre you write because some of what you say is just silly other parts are imfalmatory and other bits just not true

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John I do feel for your rig loss and it's associated hart ache. But just because I have lost a couple of rigs why do you believe I should fell OK with your statements about sailing uninsured.

As you have stated at length that getting paid out was very difficult even if it's not your fault, so how keen do you think my insurance company will be to pay out if you crash into me and they are going to have to sue you to get the money to pay me especially when they find your hiding behind a trust. Insuring tris is hard because nearly all tris are race boats where as with cats there is a large cruising fleet to spread the risk over, the obvious answer is to buy a cat.

And yes I would race without full cover but certainly not with out third party, why is it wimpy to want to protect yourself and the people you race against financially. I know if I sailed through the side of the vodafone without cover I would be paying for that forever.

In say all that I have the feeling the fleet as a whole would prefer to sail with me uninsured than you.

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Have to say JohnMi, or so it seems to me, you can be a bit of a one for shooting yourself in the foot sometimes, if you're struggling to get 3rd party, not sure it's an issue you want to highlight.

 

Mandatory third party cover as a requirement for entry in races is quite common overseas and it seems one of the things you've done with the post is highlight it as something clubs here may want to discuss. Already there are events around that list third party as 'strongly recommended' in their events.

 

Basically most people have at least third party cover and would be happier if everyone did, the clubs have exposure in the form of committee boats that have been known to be collected by competitors from time to time and not forgetting that insurers are actually reasonable supporters of racing in the form of sponsorship.

 

So from an organisers perspective, the case against mandatory cover as an entry criteria is I'm guessing mostly administrative hassle and philosophical more than fiscal and a concern on loss of competitor numbers. The pros vs. cons must be pretty balanced if not somewhat swinging in favour of mandatory third party. Given you're struggling to get it, is it something you want people discussing?

 

You seem to have a view that your stance will only affect the profits of insurers, not others. I would beg to differ. In my view, in the event there were incidents, the costs will not come out of insurers profits, they will come out of increased premiums, which people like me are paying. In short, your stuff the insurers attitude is actually a 'stuff everyone I'm racing' attitude since one way or the other, we, well the insured we, would carry the costs. This, politely, I don't think is particularly endearing.

 

Much as people don't like insurance companies, imho, they treat the racing community well by covering them at all. I'm sure it can't be particularly profitable. I for one appreciate it as without it, I would not be a part of the sport.

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Guest mental outlook

I never wanted to sell the Attitude... but after reading this thread I'm glad we did.

 

Personally I think ALL yacht clubs should demand third party cover for any boat that is racing.

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Your comments in an earlier thread John where you called everyone pussys for not wanting to do a single handed race (with extras....) when the forecast was 35kts....

 

I consistently go out in 25 knots (often by myself), cos that's when my boat really is exciting, does that mean I can't claim insurance if something happens? NO, cos that's why I have insurance!!!!

 

And you wonder why people don't want to insure you, its not about your boat not being insurable John, its about YOU not being insurable.

 

With this talk and the conspiracy theory about the BMW handicap results being rigged so that only a RNZYS boat could win.... whats next?

Also the endless bagging of people in the marine industry who have ‘let you down’. Well a lot of us have heard the other side of your stories, you are not an easy man to deal with and seem to part on bad terms with a lot of people....

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You can always pull out of the race if you see I'm in it as well, I won't hold it against you BOOBOO

 

Jesus John, you really are thicker than your skin arnt you!

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I've just been told that Putiki Express is now no longer insured. Bailey Insurance has done a great job looking all over the place for me, but unless it's over about $150,000, no luck. Not even for third party.

 

This could very well put a curb on more multis going into the water. I wonder how Ian Farrier will get on selling his F22's in NZ?

 

I think you will find that insuring Trimarans is not the issue here, however once you go high risk i.e a big claim then it becomes more difficult. Same if your in a Cat, Monohull, Car, Motrobike, Glider, whatever... Lots of Tris have insurance.

 

I guess the options for me is to just race and worry about the consequences of hitting another boat when it happens. The way I see it is that if I do damage to another boat (and being responsible), I will be willing to pay their excess to the owner and let their insurance company take me to court. I will plead guilty and destitute, and offer to pay say $50 a month, (the cost of an annual insurance cover) until the amount is paid off.

 

Thats an appalling attitude. You come across really badly here.

What if you T bone another uninsured boat? you'd just walk away?

 

Unless you retract that comment I will be (along with the rest of the fleet) requesting Clubs reject your entry to races which they are entitled to do.

 

To all that are concerned with me not having insurance, I see no difference with me being covered for third party or not. If I cause damage to another boat, because it would not be the other boat's fault there would be no cost to them, but to their insurance company. The insurance company would then need to sue me for damages.

Again the shocking attitude. Why should I claim if you hit me? believe it or not it will effect my renewal chances. how can you rely on other peoples insurance to cover your damage?

 

Overall your comments are appalling and you should be ashamed of yourself. People reading this who don't know you will think you are an absolute w^&#$@r and it reflects on the whole fleet.

 

Its none of your business whether I have insurance or not, and how that influences my decision to race. I never go sailing thinking "oh well insurance will cover it" I always have the attitude ill fix it if I break it, which is why on Capricorn when I broke my mast I DIDNT CLAIM.

 

I am also very careful to avoid situations that could result in collisions even if I lose places because of it!

 

My last word is if I raced without insurance and I hit you I wouldn't run and hide I would sort it out as that's the risk I would have taken by going sailing. If your not willing to take responsibility for possible damage caused while racing uninsured, DONT GO RACING

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What are you trying to do John? Wind people up? Make them think less of you? Amuse yourself?

 

I've known you, sailed against you, or with you for 20+ years, but you are coming across terribly here. If I didn't already know you, I certainly wouldn't want to sail against you or meet you, based on the dribble you are posting here. Might be a good time to just stop talking and shut the hell up!

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Maybe time to unsticky this conversation?

 

Yes, very little useful info here, let this thread die and eventually go away please - John if it was all just a "wind up" it's in poor taste. Engage brain B4 typing.

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Ken, Dean, butt out and shut up, I have no beef with you guys, but I enjoy winding up the 'more precious' in our midst, and will carry on, I've got four really good bites, and a few more small fry (joke). How many more can I get?

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John,

 

I don't know you, haven't sailed with you and have no desire to sail with you.

 

You may think that taking the piss out of some is amusing but there are some who have been reading this thread and looking at what you have said with some concern.

 

These people are not just the commenters who regularly appear. They include marine underwriters and (more importantly) claims managers, lawyers assorted club officials, judges and race officers. Each of those people will look at what you have said from different angles and will not like what they have read. Some already are.

 

I would prefer to see people racing than not so the best advice I can give you is to pull your head in and shut up.

 

Have a nice day.

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Go back to where this started.

I posted on here that I couldn't get insurance.

I only had one person, MM give some advice.

When I made a comment about advising the insurance industry, that I couldn't get third party, so unless they helped me out they would have to sue me if I was found at fault. Instead of any other advice or whatever, there were only howls of derision. I have said all along I was prepared to pay any excesses. I am not one to walk away from responsibilities and I can be reasonable, and have shown that by when I had a Tbone incident with another multi (I was in the right) I was willing to work with him to fix it without having insurances involved.

I know at least three other boats racing that do not have adequate insurance, and have said all along I am seeking third party liability. For me not racing is not an option. At least you know that, you don't know all the others without insurance

I have not been abusive, but after being scalded for my cavalier ways by the righteous, I Got pissed off and baited them, to good results. Twas a bit unfair to Tim, but hey, I had to see if I could get him to comment, he's been so righteous in the past, gave me such a hard time for bumping him once when not long after barged me on the line and actually made contact with me instead of hitting the start bouy, I told him to do his penalty and he ignored it. He was lucky that the race was abandoned otherwise he would have been in the protest room, the cheat. So I would call him a good catch.

Booger and Booboo, full of righteous indignation.

Sam, I'm sorry you fell for it, and I apologise for the smart arse comment, but before you ban me from any racing I suggest you ask to see the insurance details for ALL the boats racing.

 

and Col, You're a prat, have a good day

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My last racing in Australia was the Hobie Nationals 2010, part of the registration was

 

1. Copy of insurance policy for the boat

 

2. Proof of AYF membership for at least one of the crew (personal injury insurance was part of the membership I believe)

 

I am surprised that these things are not required to enter races in New Zealand, and that some even contemplate racing without coverage.

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