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2nd hand yacht prices = ridiculous


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If I hadn't bought the Marshall there's another hell deal on trade me right now that is even better value: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=466856866

 

Bluudy hell! Wasnt she on the market for about $250 - 300k a few years back? I seem to recall when i was shopping for a reasonble 40+fter she was on the market at that price. I think back then Urban Cowboy? (Ross 40 in Tga) was on the market for $150k , but in need of major work.

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If I hadn't bought the Marshall there's another hell deal on trade me right now that is even better value: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=466856866

 

Bluudy hell! Wasnt she on the market for about $250 - 300k a few years back? I seem to recall when i was shopping for a reasonble 40+fter she was on the market at that price. I think back then Urban Cowboy? (Ross 40 in Tga) was on the market for $150k , but in need of major work.

I had a look at her when the Marshall deal looked like it would fall through. They wanted 198K then. Very tidy (and fast) boat with not much to do that I could see...

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Very tidy (and fast) boat with not much to do that I could see...

 

But your recent track record in that department..................................???????????? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Very tidy (and fast) boat with not much to do that I could see...

 

But your recent track record in that department..................................???????????? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nah. They're all the same. You could get a 100% clean bill of health and lose the rig the next day I reckon.. Ask Mr. Roosevelt..

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Bluudy hell! Wasnt she on the market for about $250 - 300k a few years back? I seem to recall when i was shopping for a reasonble 40+fter she was on the market at that price. I think back then Urban Cowboy? (Ross 40 in Tga) was on the market for $150k , but in need of major work.

I had a look at her when the Marshall deal looked like it would fall through. They wanted 198K then. Very tidy (and fast) boat with not much to do that I could see...

 

It was about 06 that i was shopping, hence it was a while ago. I subsequently heard she sold for $85K back then, and from what your saying, someone has spent some coin on her since then.

 

I was gutted when i heard she'd sold for 85 because it would have been a great project at $85, but not so at $150.

 

From memory, i think the old owner had some businees/debt issues and creditors were involved with the sale at that time. Hence it wasnt 'clean', which scared me a little.

 

Good to hear shes looking pretty again

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I get all my stuff from Mauri pro or Defender. Check out Defenders HTX (lewmar) range compared to nz prices its crazy...On a side note Id love kiwi or a Ross40 not enough loot though

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From that Defender site as a FYI, any shipping is included at the cheapest rate Defender lists - On stuff I know prices of here pretty or damn well.

 

- Delta anchors - cheaper to buy in NZ.

- A random selection of shackles (larger end as it would make more difference) - all cheaper in NZ and in some cases for non-asian made where Defenders as asian made.

- G40 anchor chain - massively cheaper here. Hell theirs is expensive and I didn't even add the freight in.

- A selection of snubber hooks - cheaper here and far better quality here - again before freight

- Simple chain markers, the same ones the world currently uses. Can be brought from any NZ place for NZ$12.99 inc. Defender US$13.99 pre freight. They are made in Italy.

- A Auto rope to chain rode spliced. Using exact lengths, but the NZ ones have EU made G40 chain and top end rope where Defenders has asian chain and 'lewmar' (which they don't make) made rope - in NZ$400.00 approx inc GST. The Defender one US$483.00 before shipping costs.

- Stainless chain - in NZ a Grade 50 version is way cheaper than Defenders asian made G40, again pre-freight costs.

- A Maxwell anchor winch - NZ$2699 inc RRP but can be got for NZ$22-2300.00 inc on special. Defender US$2130.00 pre freight.

- Anchor swivels - Anchorlift brand - which come out of the same asian factory as all the rest like that no matter what the brand name on them is. About the same as here, probably more by the time it landed in NZ.

- Mooring swivels - cheaper there but they would be condemned the 1st second a mooring contractor saw them. They would last 6 months here, knot the 3 years the ones used here do.

- Interestingly when going to compare made up halyards Defender only lists polyester braids, no dyneema/spectra/anything else fancy ones. That seems weird.

- Boring polyester double braid halyard complete with a headboard shackle spliced into one end - NZ$180.00 inc. Defender US$219.99 pre freight. Both using top end quality ropes and the exact same shackle.

- 5mm Lifeline wire - cheaper here and the Defender stuff is illegal to use here. That again is strange as I thought we all had the same rules on that, apparently knot.

 

All items are direct item on item comparisons as many are the exact same item in both countries. Those that aren't I've used non-asian, if the option is there, in the NZ pricing verses whatever on Defenders site. All lengths were the same where applicable. Can't quite work out if the Defender pricing includes any sales tax, it's knot to clear on that bit. Yes I know I've picked some stuff that would be freight ugly but then that's the stuff I know and besides many of the prices above don't include freight anyway nor duties, GST and some of the things that are likely to be tacked on by the Govt.

 

Now before you get your knickers in a twist, Yes I am 100% damn sure Defender will be cheaper on some gear then it is here. But if you have the mind set all stuff is cheaper, and some of you sure come across that way, please please let me do your shopping. The money of yours I'll save will buy me some new sails :)

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Did someone say new sails I want some of those! I priced out nz & Defender for Raymarine gear and Defender won out by a reasonable amount....however I'm still poor!

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Very interesting topic. Price difference between countries are a fact of life. If a company with 5 employees can sell a 50000 of a certain product and the New Zealand company with 3 employees only sell 1000 because of the small market, there will be a price difference. When you ship 50000 instead of 1000 that will also mean a difference in price.

 

I don't see to many NZ companies in the marine trade that are making big profits but what I see is a lot of small companies trying to make a living. Most of the companies advertising on this forum have given me excellent service and been very helpful. Their prices are higher then if I buy from an internet company or a big company overseas but I am happy to pay the extra money to keep this expertise we have in this country.

 

We are living in a global economy and the upside may be that we can buy products cheaper but the downside is that we will loose a lot of the expertise and knowledge that the people in the smaller companies have and are only to happy to share.

 

If I where one of the advertiser on crew I would seriously wonder why I should spend the money if I read some of the comments in this thread.

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Did someone say new sails I want some of those! I priced out nz & Defender for Raymarine gear and Defender won out by a reasonable amount....however I'm still poor!

:lol: :lol: Welcome to my world. Interesting that last year I priced some Raymarine and the differance between buying it here and from the best we, there is a couple of us, found offshore was feck all and certainly knot even close to even warrant thinking about buying offshore. I think from memory the NZ price was a hundy or 2 the lowest of them all. I know some of the offshore places do have better buy prices so they are probably discounting a bit more at the moment due to the quieter times at the moment. Talking RRP's here even if I'd just be borrowing a set work needs so it brought :wink: :wink:

 

Great 1st post Knotted, even if I do have to say that with you being a cuzzie fellow Knot :lol:

I'd have to agree with it all. And what I'll add is that I do find it funny punters think the marine game is full of thieves especially when many rock up here in wagons none of us here could even dream of owning, to buy bits for boats again none here could even dream of ever owning. I know many Crewers, some who have and do bitch about marine prices, who have boats that I know many small marine business owners would never be able to afford.

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If I where one of the advertiser on crew I would seriously wonder why I should spend the money if I read some of the comments in this thread.

 

I can answer that.

 

Because if my business were slowly fizzing out i would want to know why so I could make changes to accomodate the new reality.

 

It doesn't matter if it is posted here or not, if Crew.org.nz didn't exist they would be posting it on facebook anyway.

 

Welcome aboard.

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Well . I see it this way , I have owned yachts for nearly 45 years of different makes , I have watched makes I would love to own , but could no afford them , Chico, cav , Stewart , etc all were up in the $40 s to 50 ish back then , I remember I was paying $115 a month marina , now the Marina is $560 a month, those boats are , Chico , start at $20 k , the cav , $20 k the Stewart , now is from $35 k up . I have the best boat for me at 60 years now ,I have put thousands of hours into making it perfect , where i can with my hands , and I love ever minuite of it and using it ,,but it's harder to keep with the costs, I find it embarrassing to tell people , they all question the costs ,the marina fees put people off buying , so want is high for boats but costs stop it all happening , I see boats listed and priced right sit for year or so ,my latest quote to haul out for anti foul , $260 plus to the cradle , $40 plus a day , no spray , no car at the site , no dust , and on it goes . Then there's $400 antifouling Then the prop $170 ,and that's if nothing is untoward happens then back in the water, ,,back to paying the $6700 Marina , that never gets cleaned , the same ropes since I moved on to it, , 20 years ago , then some fool walks past in blue uniform gazing hard into a clip board and pen , does not have the desentsay to say hi when you are paying his wages ,it's the costs killing boat sales in this country , in my view , wich is derived from asking people would you like to own a boat , and you say it's a buyers market , and a sellers loss , well , it's the costs , buy a boat tonight. ,go home tell the wife , then tell her it's going to cost min $6000 to keep it this year plus all land based costs , and you will be living on the next night , I can afford to own my boat , and pay for it , as the years a numbered , enjoy it as we'll I am the caretaker till she needs another one thanks I am vented now

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when you work out the costings like that you can see why the trailer power boat market is still fairly buoyant,take home wash down self maintenance minimal costs and no worries when its blowing wondering whether the mooring holds or your neighbours mooring.Would I change from owning my yacht NO,I hate towing.

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There are various reasons why boats don't sell. Some being the running costs, the lack of time to use them and lack of money, and declining interest in sailing. Some buy simply on price or looks. they may not be too knowledgeable. Also different boats suit different people.

In my limited experience not just with boats some prospective buyers don't have the money they can't afford it. Some will only buy if it is a steal. A few perhaps the more knowledgeable know enough to pay a fair but not excessive price. A satisfactory outcome is one both are happy with or at least can live with.

In the case of boats it seems to me that prices have dropped 30-40 % over 6 years or so. As to value that rather depends on the hidden costs both of desired extras and repairs which may not emerge for a year or so.

No doubt some sellers and buyers are unrealistic but simply cutting the price to a steal level may neither help nor be warranted. Especially if one also buys again.

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I agree with the over the top Marina costs. There is no reason other than money grabbing, that a Marina charges what it does. Proven simply by the fact that there are one or two Marinas around the Country that operate at half the Charge rate and still make a sizable profit. Rumors are that one of those, Being Nelson Marina, is about to take a leap simply because the Council have realised what sort of profits can be made. The cost of keeping a boat in Marlborough has single handedly destroyed the Boating industry here. There is now only one broker instead of once being 4. You hardly see larger boats out on the water in Pelorus Sound. Many Boating businesses in Havelock are now gone. Picton/Waikawa have also lost many businesses. The only saving grace is the number of boats being much larger than Pelorus, have kept somethings going. Trailer boats though, that's a different story. On a great day in Summer, You can't find a parking space anywhere for Boat Trailers.

The Haul out operators are also now owned by the Port Company (which is Council) and it cost me $400 for a lift and hold and waterblast. The only private operation in Havelock is half the price and doing fine.

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Following on from Wheels - someone must be paying these marina prices, haulout prices hardstand etc etc or would not all these marina's and yards be going broke?  Rich (or equity using) Kiwis are now buying 12m + launches and motor-boats and clogging up marinas perhaps? Put me right there if I am making too much of a generalisation.  So maybe marinas feel justified in their ridiculous prices (ridiculous to us 'normal' folk).

 

One marina I just laugh about to myself about is Hosbsonville.  Their rentals in the 10-12m range are around the same as Westhaven, yet it's miles away from anywhere.  Unless you are living aboard, who would pay those prices for a berth rental at Hosbonville marina that's is miles up the harbour?

Yet people must be paying, or the dude that owns the marina (same guy that owns Bayswater) would be going broke wouldn't he?

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Actually, a bit of quick searching on T/Me and I come up with the below:

 

a 12m rental, advertised by the marina at $660 pm!! -  why would anyone pay that amount for a 12m berth a dingey marina miles up the harbour? 

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/marina-berths/auction-1060875005.htm

 

$555 for a 10.5 at H/Ville again advertised by the marina themselves

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/marina-berths/auction-1060874455.htm

 

and a private rental at 380 per month for the same size berth - which is prob what the opex is.

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/marina-berths/auction-1158012444.htm

 

I don't mean to pick on H/Ville but the marina owner is taking the p*ss asking those prices.  Better to look for a private rental of an existing berth holder.

 

I could probably do the same research on the other Auckland marinas, but can't be arsed. I think I have made my point.

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