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2nd hand yacht prices = ridiculous


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Royale your post sounds rational and well considered. But it's because you use words like reasonable and fair. What gets me are the ones who expect a Rolls Royce for the price of a mini. And I agree wholeheartedly that a boat in top condition is worth paying top dollar for. It will in the end cost a whole lot less and will be out on the water more often rather than being repaired.

 

If history repeats itself as it has done over many many decades, boat prices will follow real estate in approximately 12 - 18 months. If I were selling my boat (which I am) I would hang onto it for another year or so rather than flog it off for next to nothing. The money it costs me to keep it for another year won't come close to the amount of money I'd lose in order to sell it to a bargain hunter. I'd suggest right now is the best time to buy.

 

Riverjim of course there's no comparison between a Chico or Cav 32 and a new boat, but if the "market" gets the shits with all the cheapo's out there and withdraws all the second hand boats for sale (ok it's an extreme extrapolation but just roll with it for the sake of discussion), then eventually even those old boats will become worth something. It's called supply and demand. Currently supply is greater than demand, but it will change, because it always does.

 

I agree with living within our means, but if someone doesn't have the means to buy a good boat at a fair price, then why do they expect someone to throw it away for nothing?

 

In my experience the market works like this:

When I'm selling, the bottom has dropped out of the market, especially whatever sort of boat it is that I am trying to sell. It's a buyers market apparently. The instant I have sold my boat and am looking for a replacement, the market changes, within a nanosecond and the boat I want is a much sought after type and I'd better hurry up and get my cheque book out. It has become a sellers market before the ink has dried on the sale contract of my boat. :?

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AA - correct, except for the people who don't have the option of waiting due to cashflow issues, wife issues or whatever. they are then forced to take the hit to get out at that time, and that's where the market is and that's where the bargain hunters are waiting.

But if you have the option of hanging on, absolutely do that.

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Agreed but in any market, people who are in trouble and need the readies quickly inevitably sell for below "market" value. Wether that market is buoyant or depressed. I can wait. I even have kind friends who have offered to sail my boat for me while I am unable to. You see what a great community this is!

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You just need them to offer to pay the marina fees and haulouts and you're sorted :)

 

One option is hard storage, while the market recovers. But only if you have free storage, near the sea, and cheap launching, close to AKL, with someone who will check regularly and keep everything clean. Stuff still gets old even without being used.

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I doubt hard storage around here will be any cheaper. I could take it out of the water, put it on a truck and stick it on my lawn, but the cost of removing the mast, trucking it all of 3 km to my place from the marina, and then the reverse will cost quite a bit and then if I want to go for a putt, I won't be able to, which currently I can still do on no wind days.

 

I like sitting on the boat in the marina. It's my blokes shed and I'd be screwed without one of those.

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I like sitting on the boat in the marina. It's my blokes shed and I'd be screwed without one of those.

 

Agree whole hartedly. A boat in the water is worth 2 on the land. My blokes' shed is a little hard to sit comfortably on and enjoy a beer.

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Some good points here, and glad it has raised discussion.

 

I will admit that perhaps the high NZ dollar has somewhat helped raise my ire at 2nd hand boat prices in NZ, because of course when you look at a 2nd hand "good old boat" on a USA website, calculate the exchange rate, then compare to the price of a near as can be design in NZ and look at our prices - then you sort of say to yourself "WTF"!.

 

Then again, I suppose NZ seems to have been always more expensive for everything - not just old boats.

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Another interesting one is US boats that have made their way here (ex cruisers). You see the same boat on the uS websites at a fraction of what they ask when they get here.

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Or you could look at it all and say 'I.ll be dead soon so I could go out after sailing my boat around for a while or I could go out after only bitching about prices not dropping and never getting one'. I believe it's called Oppertunity cost I.e what will I lose by just waiting. There is a cost to doing that.

 

Or the above simplified - Just get the f*ck on with it before you are dead.

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Or the above simplified - Just get the f*ck on with it before you are dead.

 

Best thing on this thread so far...... :thumbup:

 

I agree that paying a premium for a well maintained and fitting out yacht is often (almost always) the most cost effective way of doing it as you can chuck alot of money away doing up a boat and only get a small fraction of that back.

But I have gone against that rule on my last 4 boats (including my current one) and come out just fine each time.

Some people enjoy working on boats, I find it extremely satisfying to take something and make it better and am not afraid of a bit of hard work to get there.

My first boat was in pieces when i got it, keel ripped off, had been sitting on the bottom for a few days and needed more than half the bottom replaced. I got it in the water in 6 months, had it for 3 years and more than doubled my money on it.

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riverjim, you do raise a good issue, however the feedback from most seems to be:

- don't buy a shitter, you get what you pay for. So to say you don't care what has been spent on the boat recently doesn't add up. If the vendor didn't spend it the new owner will. Likely the vendor will only get say 30-50c in the $ on the improvements. So you will nearly always be better off spending a few more $$ to buy better.

- you cant really bitch about prices generally. They are what they are ignoring the outlying dreamers. Its like saying prices of 10 year old fords need to drop because you don't want to pay that price - they wont unless the demand drops or there is excess supply. Market is what it is and only economic forces and impacting on supply and demand will change that.

- accepting the market is where it is and just getting on with it will get you out sailing- otherwise you just become another dreaming landlubber watching life go by.

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My grandmother was full of sage advice. In a situation like this where someone is saying "I wish 2nd hand boat prices were lower" she would probably say something like "Maybe you should wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and see which one fills up fastest"

 

The market is what it is. If 2nd hand boats aren't selling the vendors will either wait until they do sell, or the price will drop until someone buys. It is a self-regulating system and just because you're not where you want to be in it doesn't mean that its wrong, crazy, ridiculous or anything else. It just is what it is. Don't like the prices? then don't buy at those prices. Simple.

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I reckon I could have got my current boat cheaper, and I have spent far more on it than I ever thought I would, and there is still heaps to go. And this was a boat in good condition!

Would I change the decision? No absolutely not. I have had some great races in it, some cool cruising, had a steep learning curve, scared myself a few times, and met some great people who have crewed on it.

I took ERSATZ's quote pretty much word for word and applied it at the time... No regrets Another 10 months and the finance will be paid off, then there's just the mortgage!!

 

If I hadn't bought the Marshall there's another hell deal on trade me right now that is even better value: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=466856866

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My grandmother was full of sage advice. In a situation like this where someone is saying "I wish 2nd hand boat prices were lower" she would probably say something like "Maybe you should wish in one hand and sh*t in the other and see which one fills up fastest"

Quite a grandmother Grinna!!

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I empathise with the OP because I think every issue of Boating NZ includes a fair whack of "you've got to be joking" examples of optimistic pricing.

 

In terms of your response, I think a lot depends on your budget. Over the years I've done a lot of research and roughly worked out that if you are thinking of spending $300k+ and if you are thinking of a mainstream production type boat, then buying offshore and importing makes sense. Because it's pretty hard to stomach paying the premium that you do pay in NZ.

 

Example, if you were in the market for one of the world's most popular large family cruisers (Bavaria 46) then these two make the point:

 

1. Locally in NZ you have to spend $342,000 to pick up a 6 yr old model:

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts-sail-boats/moored-boats/auction-461037244.htm

 

2. Whereas overseas for less cash (NZD$300k) you can get a 'brand new' 2012 version of the same size boat:

http://au.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2465657&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=NZD&access=Public&listing_id=77177&url=

 

So if you are browsing in this bracket then it's got to be tempting to buy offshore, right?

 

But if you are looking lower budget I think it's rarely worth it, makes more sense to shop smart and pick up a local boat for best price you can - and it is still a buyer's market, in fact when it comes to boats it always has been and always will be a buyers market. Bit like 2nd hand cars, just too many of them around to ever create a seller's market. Unlike houses.

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I reckon I could have got my current boat cheaper, and I have spent far more on it than I ever thought I would, and there is still heaps to go. And this was a boat in good condition!

Would I change the decision? No absolutely not. I have had some great races in it, some cool cruising, had a steep learning curve, scared myself a few times, and met some great people who have crewed on it.

I took ERSATZ's quote pretty much word for word and applied it at the time... No regrets Another 10 months and the finance will be paid off, then there's just the mortgage!!

 

If I hadn't bought the Marshall there's another hell deal on trade me right now that is even better value: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=466856866

Thsts because I'm danm right. Mind you I was shagging Grinnas Grandma at the time so she may have planted the seed in my mind as she sceamed in pleasure from my throbbing man stick.

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