Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 We won in 95 with no tricks!.. The 95 boat did not have one "trick" bit of kit or any flash concept other than being a complete package and great team work. That's why it was fast. ( lots of small things and not some bit of mind blowing kit that blew our minds and created no advantage ) . Im not sure, I think a gennaker is a fairly major trick given that every single IACC boat since 95 has run with them... Something called 3dl comes to mind aswell... Not exclusive but TNZs/Norths use of the high roach main and yarn layout certainly was. ?? Worth reading http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 059600075X. Journal of wind engineering and industrial aerodynamics Americas Cup Sail Design Burns Fallow (1996) I hope ETNZs strength this time round is the sailor lead design approach 1995 tricks that come to mind... Ordering black paint to repaint NZL20, because NZL38/32 were “slow” was a good trick Using the unbeaten NZL38 to qualify NZL32 for the finals was a good trick? Having Jones up the mast was another, but the aussies did not see that as a funny trick Not racing the last round of the quarterfinals was a trick Having everyone buy red sock was a not very nice trick (sefo) Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 13, 2012 Share Posted September 13, 2012 yes they were all good litte trick that combined to make a winning concept. it was low risk and calculated. the Hula, for example, were gambles due to the lack of a credible game plan and poor management / financial support. I didn't say there were no tricks, just no desperate "large tricks" of those failed campaigns. As mentioned above Link to post Share on other sites
chic014 0 Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Watch the ETNZ AC72 sailing live on this webcam..... http://www.spencerhotel.co.nz/webcam.html Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Good concepts and good point of view I hope like hell we take out this cup From what we have to go on right now, I love where ETNZ is at. Such new design concepts. No chance to refine stuff so unfortunately the next cup will be won on boat speed more than sailing ability. Give t a few cups and sailing ability will come back. [Think again, IT will be the boat that can slow the fastest, turn the fastest and regain lift the fastest and be into full speed the fastest will have a definite advantage, do the turns, tacts, and keep the boat upright to fin if the right winds are there and what the rules are when it comes to deciding when it's right to sail. Not enough wind - no sailing. Too much wind no sailing. Who will have the controlling say in these matters ? ] 1995 team was the complete package The package was, Every decision in the development of Team New Zealand's BLACK MAGIC yachts had to answer a simple, but rigorously imposed, question: does it make the boat go faster. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Good concepts and good point of view I hope like hell we take out this cup From what we have to go on right now, I love where ETNZ is at. Such new design concepts. No chance to refine stuff so unfortunately the next cup will be won on boat speed more than sailing ability. Give t a few cups and sailing ability will come back. [Think again, IT will be the boat that can slow the fastest, turn the fastest and regain lift the fastest and be into full speed the fastest will have a definite advantage, do the turns, tacts, and keep the boat upright to fin if the right winds are there and what the rules are when it comes to deciding when it's right to sail. Not enough wind - no sailing. Too much wind no sailing. Who will have the controlling say in these matters ? ] 1995 team was the complete package The package was, Every decision in the development of Team New Zealand's BLACK MAGIC yachts had to answer a simple, but rigorously imposed, question: does it make the boat go faster. Let me rephrase. The fastest boat will win this cup, not the fastest sailors. The exact opposite of the current AC45 circus. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Let me rephrase. The fastest boat will win this cup, not the fastest sailors. The exact opposite of the current AC45 circus. Totally disagree. The AC will be won by the best sailors on a competitive boat. Why? Well when it all boils down. I think the boats might be quite even and the best crew work around the cans will win. This may be a techno war but nothing has changed and sailors still count. But if there is a big breakthrough for one team then you will be right.... but I can't see it.... yet. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 But if there is a big breakthrough for one team then you will be right.... but I can't see it.... yet. What about this breakthrough? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 But if there is a big breakthrough for one team then you will be right.... but I can't see it.... yet. What about this breakthrough? Thats nothing. Coutts and others will have that covered off. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 But if there is a big breakthrough for one team then you will be right.... but I can't see it.... yet. What about this breakthrough? Hold on just 11 cotton pickin moments, you have not seen Artemis yet. They I believe are going to have folding foils hinged onto the inner side on the hulls and not by dagger boards at around about the position the other boats have their dagger boards. This means they are hydrolic and I believe at lower speeds they can adjust for less drag. I could be wrong so don,t bet on it. Tom-Schnackenberg factor is about to turn the designs upside down again. Believe it or not. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Only going on what I can see right now You were alloud to launch your boats in July and this is the only one fling. The rest is all speculation Why haven't the others foiled yet? They are running out of time if you ask me Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Only going on what I can see right now You were alloud to launch your boats in July and this is the only one fling. The rest is all speculation Why haven't the others foiled yet? They are running out of time if you ask me plenty of time royale.... especially when you have billions and resources for africa. stay tuned it will be awesome Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Why haven't the others foiled yet? They are running out of time if you ask me However who says the boats when it comes to 2013 will be foilers. Have you considered the track might not be suitable for foilers to win a race. Heres the latest comments from there favorite man Hutchinson Friday Oct 5, 2012 Both teams have demonstrated an ability to foil, but it remains to be seen whether it will be viable while racing the tight course in San Francisco Bay. Hutchinson said " his team would certainly look at foiling as an option, but they were aware of the risks and rewards". "You would be naive not to look at it and think hard about it. What you have to look at in the bigger picture is what goes around the race course the fastest". "The trick will be whether you have the space or the room to allow the foiling to work for you." An evolution from the successful Prada campaign of the 2000 America's Cup, Patrizio Bertelli's Luna Rossa entered into a ground-breaking partnership with Team New Zealand late last year to ensure they could make the startline in 2013. The Italians bought the design of Team New Zealand's first boat and, at the end of the testing period, both teams will go away and build their second AC72 independently. http://americascup-news.com/news/oracle/files/2012/10/GG12-SFOSEP-24377-960x640.jpg http://www.cayardsailing.com/media/rphotos/12_051582_ACWS_SanFrancisco_oct_1.jpg 11 ways to raise funds. They plan to launch the boat in Auckland on October 26 and will do all their testing in New Zealand, although there are strict rules around information and data sharing between the two teams under the America's Cup protocol. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 From the NZ herald website Orical shitting their pants? Coutts conceded if he had his time again he would have gone with a less ambitious design. Photo / NZPA America's Cup heavyweights at odds as tension hits boiling point Russell Coutts, the mastermind behind the format for next year's America's Cup, has admitted he made a mistake with the AC72 class rule and revealed he even tried to scale back the size of the boat late last year. The Oracle chief executive claims his efforts to revise the design of the wingsail catamarans when it became apparent other teams were struggling with the costs and complexity of the project were blocked by Team New Zealand counterpart Grant Dalton. But, in what is sure to bring simmering tensions between the two teams to boiling point, Dalton has fired back at Coutts, accusing the four-time Cup winner of trying to "spin his way out of trouble". Under the original plans for the 34th America's Cup unveiled in September 2010, competitors were supposed to be racing their AC72s in this week's world series regatta in San Francisco. But with just three challengers confirmed for the Cup next year, and only one of them - Team New Zealand - having got their boat wet yet, the remaining regattas on the circuit will be sailed in the AC45s. The design and construction process of the high-tech wing-sailed catamarans has been far more time consuming and complex than anticipated. Artemis' AC72 programme has been fraught with problems, while Oracle suffered major damage to their daggerboards shortly after they launched their boat, behind schedule, in late August. In an interview with the Weekend Herald at Oracle's base on the outskirts of San Francisco, Coutts conceded if he had his time again he would have gone with a less ambitious design. "In hindsight, I think there were two errors. One was I thought the boats needed to be quite large-scale to be grand enough for the America's Cup. Clearly the world series has proven this wrong - the AC45s look pretty damn good on TV," he said. "The other thing is, we possibly should have looked at making more of the components one-design." Coutts said he broached the topic of moving to a smaller scale boat at a competitors meeting in San Diego in November last year, but the idea was immediately rejected by Dalton. "Quite a few of the teams were in favour of this, particularly the ones that were struggling financially. Do you know who opposed that? Team New Zealand. And now they're complaining about how difficult it is." But Dalton has rejected Coutts' account of events, and believes the Oracle chief executive is trying to use Team New Zealand as a scapegoat for his own poor planning. "(The proposal to change the class rule) was nothing more than a statement made at a closed meeting so that one day when the wheels start falling off he can use it as an excuse," said Dalton. "He was proposing that we all scrap three well-advanced boats, and start again. "It is one of the biggest concessions of defeat I've ever heard." Coutts asserts when the idea was tabled no team had begun building their AC72s, but Dalton denies this. "At that point our boat was three-quarters built. His boat and Artemis were well in build. Deals were done. "And what would that have meant (if we did agree to change the class rule)? That all these other teams were suddenly going to stump up the money? "They can barely even start an AC45." With this latest spat following a stand-off between Team New Zealand and America's Cup event organisers this week over a decision to abandon development of the team bases on piers 30-32, it appears the rare period of peace in the sport is coming to an end. Dalton said he was becoming frustrated at the continual back-tracking from the event's organisers. "There are a chain of things that aren't being produced as promised." Coutts, meanwhile, suggests Dalton "is only happy if he's having a grumble about something". By Dana Johannsen Email Dana Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 From the NZ herald website Orical shitting their pants? Who cares about non AC Boats. There is no such team or boat racing in the AC series at present with that name. Article in breach of copy right asa well. Coutes is right again another person stating that Daulton is only happy when complaining or whining Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 7, 2012 Share Posted October 7, 2012 Who cares about non AC Boats. The question is 'who cares about the AC' by the looks. A statement I've heard from 2 differing groups of sports commentators in 2 days and from 2 hemispheres. Both groups, one being 3 in NZ and the other being 4 in the US, were pretty much 'The AC will provide some passing interest I suppose but these days of weird boats, next to no entries and the challenger admitting they cocked up on a lot of things and it going to a 15sec TV based format, passing interest is about all it's worth. The AC's day has come and gone, whether it'll come back no one knows'. Interesting stuff and echoing many other similar comments from many places assorted. Go Dalton, well said and it needed saying. RC doesn't look comfortable when he's having to explain the growing holes in the RC Show.... sorry, the AC Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 From the NZ herald website Orical shitting their pants? Who cares about non AC Boats. There is no such team or boat racing in the AC series at present with that name. Article in breach of copy right asa well. Coutes is right again another person stating that Daulton is only happy when complaining or whining Spelling mistake "oracle" What is asa? I assume you mean as Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Will be interesting to see what odds the bookies are paying closer to the cup. I've got a hundie on ETNZ to win against a loyal oracle supporter at work. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 NZ Herald reporting ETNZ doing 48 knots! http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10838854 My money is on ETNZ Word on the street is OR is in for major repairs after the fluttering foil session Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm not convinced the boat with the fastest top end speed will win this time around. It's going to be team who doesn't have any failures and who can push the hardest without coming unstuck. May also be the team that runs out of spares last. I'm not sure a 72 will come back up the right way with a wing that can be recovered overnight either. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I'm not convinced the boat with the fastest top end speed will win this time around. It's going to be team who doesn't have any failures and who can push the hardest without coming unstuck. May also be the team that runs out of spares last. I'm not sure a 72 will come back up the right way with a wing that can be recovered overnight either. I have to agree with you there It's a real same these boats won't be able to stretch their legs on the race course. Link to post Share on other sites
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