A question for the chain guru

[rigger 47]

Bloody hell, is that normal? Can you imagine what it's like below deck in the chain locker?

 

by the number of people standing around and the condition of the vessel and the bright white mooring lines I'd say the ship was a new build or had ben thru a refit and they were testing systems. I have been involved in ship yard trials for new build and we tested the gear to what the builders claimed it could do, occaionally things went wrong....

 

Smithy might comment on anchoring at a rig and putting 14 + shackles of chain in the water while running into the rig, screwing around and backing in to tie up to offload / backload cargo. Will have a look and see if I have any clips of the chain peeling out.

 

Now KM what do you think of this chain?

[John B 106]

 

So you ready for the pop quiz now

 

 

When I get back from the counselling session I just booked.

 

Sometimes it pays just knot to ask

 

But I must say you generated a seriously fact filled thread pretty fast, nice work

 

I am a fountain of questions.

[Murky 1]

Always control deployment speed when chucking out a all chain rode as it will easily run away on you

I like this one and can hardly wait until next Christmas to try it out: "Honey. Honey! Please control the deployment speed a bit better".

 

KM, you better have your new catam-apartment finished by then, I may be coming to live with you.

[John B 106]

Always control the 'reployment 'speed as well. I watched as my mates family electric winched up their bruce at the beginning of the chrissy cruise. As it reached the spare man it was inverted. It bucked and flipped off the fairlead and carved 2 gouges in the bow.

Never happen to me I thought, my fairlead/ spare man has giant cheeks to prevent that.

 

Lo, ..... near the end of the cruise some casual over active not paying of attention from the bow boy... yes you guessed it.

 

A character forming incident one might say. Still ,after a lie down and a rum, some more counselling, it wasn't so bad... just a 4 inch single gouge in some previously quite pleasant paint.

[Guest]

Now KM what do you think of this chain?

As sad is it may sound, somewhat sexy

 

I did a suss and that vid is of a new boat during systems testing. During the anchor deployment test they found the winches brake systems wasn't quite up to spec, they used chinese made break pads that burned out, as if you couldn't tell

 

It look like what you saw was 12 shots (330mts, approx 28,000kg worth) being pealed out and only stopped when it came to the end. Apparently the shackle holding the end to the boat had to be cut off as it was somewhat longer than it should have been afterwards.

 

The floatie house thingy is being looked at by 2 NZ designers as I speak to see just how much of an idiot I maybe, if one at all. One is a multi specialist and one more a school wooden boat dude. If it works out well we should have 2 cabins with king size beds spare. Knot sure I'd piss anyone off to quick though, floating by Xmas isn't going to happen. The multi specialist is in the mix as he's already done 3 boats of a very similar, if knot slightly more performance aimed and with less emphasise on space, size and nature. One specifically designed to use lots of flat panels and use small motors, even if the existing boats to that design cruise at 22-25kts. 2 of them in NZ I believe. I know one is in the Sth Island being used as a ferry.

[wheels 543]

That Vid was probably not so much a runaway. The very start shows a guy undoing a funny looking thing. That is a Hydraulic Piston that is connected to the brake at the other end. If anyone knows what hydraulic pulley/bearing puller is, the same kind of thing. The brake slips like a clutch to slow the chain going out and as KM said, that's 13t and slipping 13T at that speed generates some big heat. The chain actualy wasn't going over as fast as it seems. the problem is the Camera is either poor qaulity or one of those stupid anti movement type ones, so they don't lock the fames correctly and the movement is not smooth. It gives the impression it is screaming out, when it is not. For 13t and 65mm, it is moving, but not so much out of control. I wouldn't mind betting the camera guy has seen this before and thought, Holy crap, I just have to Vid this.

[wheels 543]

I had a chain runaway once. The stuff was smoking as it went out. Someone didn't lock it off when it was wound in the last time. I was underway at 7kts and I heard this strange sound. i looked up to see the smoke and chain screaming and thought of chain and anchor under the boat, Rudder and Prop. What i was really terrified of was the Anchor touching the bottom and gabing something immovable. I just got to the Clutch as the Bitter end was reached. I reckon it lifted the deck a good 2" in the air. I am not sure if it was Deck only, or if the Hull came up with it, but all seems to survive. But she was one heck of a crunch.

[Guest]

good on ya johnb for starting a thread on a topic I have been mulling over since the end of summer.

 

My Logan 33 carries 50m, all chain, about 11 years old. Most of the chain is in good nick, and appears never to have left the locker except for inspection. Certainly, in the 2.5 years I have had the boat, apart from the odd emergency , we have never anchored in anything deeper than 5-8 metres and never let out much more than 25m of chain. I suspect the previous owners did much the same (The L33 only draws just over half a metre).

 

The first 5 metres of chain however has lost most of the galv and is staining a bit, and the next 10m are looking thin. Obviously normal wear and tear after 11 years although some of it can be attributed to several stainless rods that the chain bounces over as it comes and goes out to the bow roller. I have since covered these in plastic hose.

 

I was going to remove the worst part of the chain, just shorten it up, but I'm reluctant to do so .... err .... just because - well maybe one day that extra 5-10m might come in handy.

 

Is there a case for end for ending the chain, or can a re-galv be done on just the worst bit?

[John B 106]

Can't answer the part of thing DB, but I intend to end for end when I do it. Just because.

 

Maybe you could spray the worn galvanising with some cold galv paint and end for end it for a year or 3.

[wheels 543]

Yeah end for end it by all means. The other end will be just fine.

There is just one point for caution though. The worn end can weep rust into the bottom of the locker. Spray on cold Galv just is not thick enough to cope with Salt water for long. What you can do though is drop the rusty end in some Phosphoric Acid to clean it up and etch the Galv that is left. Or you can paint it in the rust converter stuff, a white liquid that will turn the rust black and lock it. Then spray on some single pot Epoxy or dip it in a pot of it and hang and let it dry. That will protect the Bitter end from depositing nasty rust in the locker and give you a new chain at the other end and no reason why you can't get another 10yrs out of it. KM won't like that of course

Oh and the Bitter end being painted, you know when you have say 5 or 10m total left.

[John B 106]

There you go DB.

 

There's a paint product out there called POR 15 commonly used by car restoration guys for chassis and motor parts etc. Very hard but because it's a psychoanalcryalot or something similar sounding it doesn't like the sun. ( but it comes with a metal /rust conditioner as part of the system)

Sounds like a perfect product for a bitter ending in a dark place.

[Guest]

Wash the chain and give the yuckky bit a coat of good paint, that sticky spray on motorbike chain lube stuff or anything that will hold on well and has rust preventative properties. End for end it and your all go again. There are quite a few good products out there.

 

We like a 2 part spray Galv, similar to CRC Zinc-It, but this one is made by Crown in the US. Far better than Zinc-It and works bloody well. Around $20 a spray tin and they go a long way. SHAKE very well 1st. One is a matt finish and the other is a shinier finish. You can use just one fine but we have had better results using the shiny over the matt.

 

Or you could chop that bit off and add another length using a good C type joining link. The chopped off bit regalv and use as the secondary, scallop dredge, wife and headboard springs to mind or other things.

 

Just watch for something* in the wider H Gulf that is staining some metals. It looks exactly like rust and even dribbles on your deck like rust but it isn't rust. We are trying to find out what it could be but no joy so far. It's that bad in some spots a 2 month old perfectly fine galv chain looks like it's 5 years old and needs regalving. It's weird as the staining will be on top of galvanising that is still 100%. When I slipped my boat last year my bulb was rusty as a rusty thing even though it's lead. The water blaster removed a lot of it but some stayed. *I took a sample of the goop from the marina under my boat but the lab said it had so much different shite in it they couldn't really pin it down to something specific. The search continues. So make sure your rust is actually rust 1st I think. It's almost like a semi-water soluble dye. No specific spots as to where but it appears Ponui way is one of them.

 

Wheels, if the story is right that big chain video was a full on runaway. The brakes slowed it a bit but couldn't stop it completely due to crap pads.

[PaulR 3]

Always control the 'reployment 'speed as well.

 

The strength of your windlass is also important

 

 

Once upon a time, . . . . all the good stories start this way,

 

Story Number 1.

==========

At sea, some where between here and the western island, a large ship was caught in a storm. The captain ordered the anchor and all chain be lowered to act a a storm sea anchor.

 

This worked really well, steadied the ship and in due time, all survived.

 

Then prior to getting under steam again to continue their voyage, the anchor and chain needed to be retrieved.

 

Unfortunately the steam powered reliable windlass groaned, sputtered and finally gave up the ghost, knackered absolutely.

 

The only solution was to get out the gas axe and cut the chain and anchor away.

 

They then proceeded on their way but had to order a complete anchor and chain replacement. Shipping company office was knot amused.

 

Story Number 2.

==========

P&O invested in a bulk deal of walkie talkies many years ago so the could be used by their officers for bridge to fordeck communication.

 

All was going well, until one day whilst at anchor offshore of the Ganges / Culcutta, a sister ship was seen steaming up the river at a fair turn of speed, about 16+ knots.

 

The Chief Officer/Mate was spotted on the foredeck with the anchoring party. Unfortunately he was knot particularily liked fleet wide and so suddendly her heard the command on his radio "OK Chief, Let her go!!"

 

The Chief obeyed and out the anchor went . . . . really fast plus the bulkhead and bitter end flange which then took the windlass clean off the deck.

 

P&O then invested in unique frequencies for each ship.

 

Summary:

=======

 

Why these stories Both are applicable to yachts. It would be an interesting test to see if one's windlass was strong enough to lift your anchor and all chain rode.

 

Are these new fangled remote windlass controls all on the same frequency

 

Is this a new game for this Christmas cruise

[rigger 47]

Wash the chain and give the yuckky bit a coat of good paint, that sticky spray on motorbike chain lube stuff or anything that will hold on well and has rust preventative properties. End for end it and your all go again. There are quite a few good products out there.

 

One product - 'Max Wax' works very well http://www.corrosionx.co.nz/MaxWax.htm

 

we use it where I work for protecting steel / galv fittings on a portable pump unit that gets rather well salted when in use, we get it through AES in town

[smithy09 50]

 

Smithy might comment on anchoring at a rig and putting 14 + shackles of chain in the water while running into the rig, screwing around and backing in to tie up to offload / backload cargo. Will have a look and see if I have any clips of the chain peeling out.

 

Anchors Rigger? What are they?

 

The 1 year old ship I am on now is a DP2 dive vessel. They just use thrusters and a computer to keep her in position, and very accurately in position in anything up to around 3-4 metre seas.

The McDermott pipe laying barges I have been on use an 8 anchor spread however, (2 per corner) but they use wire ropes and only a little chain just after the anchor. They then use the winches to position the Barge and move it crab like. They have 2 dedicated anchor handling tugs to pull the anchor up and re-lay it. Not a small Barge.. 270 people on board...

I have got a video of an Oceaneering Cable lay reel on the back of a ship that "got away". The reel is about 20 metres diameter and the cable just smoked off it. Wrecked the reel and most of the back deck.. Too big a file to upload with the minimum band width we have off here.

Pics of Barge anchors below. Hanging up on the bulkhead to the right....

[wheels 543]

Man, you guy's get to play with cool toys.

I reckon I have managed to narrow down to the point in my life where getting to play with the really Big cool toys went legs up for me. I was five and I had asked for a Tonka Truck for Christmas. But I had been naughty (no idea what I did) and my Parents said Santa wouldn't bring it because i had been naughty. So at the age of five, I never got my Christmas present and when Friends of my Parents came round and asked what i got for Christmas, my Parents told them Santa never came because i had been naughty. I was devestated and very embarresed and ran off crying my eyes out. No idea what I did, but i must have been really naughty, because even still today, I just get to look at others playing with the big cool toys and wonder about all the What if's.

[smithy09 50]

Man, you guy's get to play with cool toys.

I reckon I have managed to narrow down to the point in my life where getting to play with the really Big cool toys went legs up for me. I was five and I had asked for a Tonka Truck for Christmas. But I had been naughty (no idea what I did) and my Parents said Santa wouldn't bring it because i had been naughty. So at the age of five, I never got my Christmas present and when Friends of my Parents came round and asked what i got for Christmas, my Parents told them Santa never came because i had been naughty. I was devestated and very embarresed and ran off crying my eyes out. No idea what I did, but i must have been really naughty, because even still today, I just get to look at others playing with the big cool toys and wonder about all the What if's.

 

Ahhhhhh Mr Wheels. Lie back on the couch and tell me all about it. Did your mother dress you funny as well? Sailor suit?

[smithy09 50]

Actually, it's like playing with Tonka toys.. This is a platform jacket going in in Vietnam.. It's not meant to be leaning over like that. That was a small mistake.....

[rigger 47]

Anchors Rigger? What are they?

 

The 1 year old ship I am on now is a DP2 dive vessel. They just use thrusters and a computer to keep her in position, and very accurately in position in anything up to around 3-4 metre seas.

The McDermott pipe laying barges I have been on use an 8 anchor spread however, (2 per corner) but they use wire ropes and only a little chain just after the anchor. They then use the winches to position the Barge and move it crab like. They have 2 dedicated anchor handling tugs to pull the anchor up and re-lay it. Not a small Barge.. 270 people on board...

I have got a video of an Oceaneering Cable lay reel on the back of a ship that "got away". The reel is about 20 metres diameter and the cable just smoked off it. Wrecked the reel and most of the back deck.. Too big a file to upload with the minimum band width we have off here.

Pics of Barge anchors below. Hanging up on the bulkhead to the right....

 

Yeap know all about the DB30, you said only 8 anchors, she could have up to 12 out though on pipe lay jobs we were generally only running 9 or 10 max and 8 most of the time, the first picture even shows the boat I worked on for a few years. It was a competition to run your half of the anchors quicker than the other boat.

 

The third pic was taken not far from where your pic was taken I think.

 

I've got a copy of that vid of the runaway reel, I think it might be on you tube as well. Lots of sparcks at night.

[wheels 543]

Sailor suit?

Oh yeah, i can remember that too. I have an old black and white somewhere buried deep. Reaaaal Deep.