Guest Nam Off Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 OK fellas,recovered from the stag doo....just,Dan has come up with some initial costings,now everyone remain calm,they are initial as he cant nail it down till all the design work is done,now for those that want to source everything them selfs and just buy the paper work Dan is happy to do that as well,but to get the ball rolling....drum roll please...... Kit set package,includes design fees,engineering drawings for keel spar,build metholodgy and 3d modelled pics of stage by stage,all the ply wood(Gaboon) and mdf CNC cut to the developed shapes $7000 price does not cover cedar or paulonia for the strip planking stage 2.....all the materials to finish the boat including 350kg of lead $10300 Dagger boards x 2 rudders x 2 out of CNC machined molds from carbon,includes dagger bearings $5000 Alloy mast and boom....$8000 (proposed to use an etchell section reall stiff F/A and cheap,also easy as to attach spreaders with through bars,boom to be a piece of alloy tube from Micos or ullrich rolled) Deck gear (Harken) ....$8000 (think this is a bit high) Engineering...includes keel spar,deck collar,push and pull pits,stanchion and keel bearings $4000 Electronics $5000 Sails ????????? Dan seems to think 850 hours to do the whole thing,as you can see the price to build one if you do it your self over a period of time aint to henious,the initial 7 grand out lay would get 2 guys going ASAP with a couple months of work in front of them,throw in a contra deal or two help from some mates a few freebies and the whole thing looks pretty doable. Dan can be contacted direct danleech@paradise.net.nz hes happy to take enquires and discuss supply of drawings only ect. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nam Off Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Nice looking mini, Yes, I could be very interested, but, like others, I need more information. The biggest question is the cost. Whilst I would love a mini, a 50k Euro boat is out of my leauge at this stage. about the boat, Well it definitely looks the part. Are you going to go for single or double daggerboards? And what sort of water ballast config are you planning? Looking forward to hearing more. Shes a canter with twin dagger boards, Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nam Off Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I am interested in designing and building one I think Dans Rig is 25% to big for the Hauraki gulf so can anyone list the complete set of rules Rat do you intend going upwind everywhere,you will only think the rig is to big till one goes snorting past down hill Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nam Off Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 costs will limit most people!... sooooo... What are the class rules for this class? Could you take a thompson 650, ross 650? or a E5.9, or anything similar and lengthen / shorten / modify it and compete? (3 rules for class! - max length, Max sail area, min weight) or could you set up a circuit around the pacific for existing boats 6.50 or say 7.80 metres or under, singlehanded?. Would be cheaper for the same affect. Mind you looking at those new 650's makes you drool! I think you would box it up and anything goes,only prob you would have with the above is they are all road legal 2.4m beam so you are giving away grunt straight up,but hey why not! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Saturday Night Special Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I am interested in designing and building one I think Dans Rig is 25% to big for the Hauraki gulf so can anyone list the complete set of rules Rat do you intend going upwind everywhere,you will only think the rig is to big till one goes snorting past down hill You ever come back from the Barrier with 30plus knots on the nose into a big sea ? i wouldn't want to get caught out there withn that hanging up there is all I think i would have the same area just a bit lower in aspect and sacrafice a bit of bag area this is not Europe Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nam Off Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Displacement of 850kg Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nam Off Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Rat,im in Welly so know all about going up hill in the breeze!!! rule is 14mtrs bottom of keel to top of stick,750mm freeboard average and the boom can not extended past the transom so you would take it all wouldnt you the sail plan shows a detachable inner stay for the J3 and storm jib and you would have some pretty large reefs I imagine,these things do go uphill pretty good in the wind,afterall they do sail across the Bay of certain Death(Biscay) to kick off the Transit Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJohnB 323 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Does anyone had a set of rules in english??? Can the main be reefed to 40% of luff lenght be classifled as the stormmain and not need for an trysail???? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 So ocean race ready around - 47300 for the list of bits as Nam posted earlier 13000 was Booboos ballpark figure for a suite of sails 15000 for safety gear, guessing here and possibly high 10000 for build beverages and shiney things to shut down the 'That bloody boat again' comments from the missus. Grand total 85K race ready or exceptionally close too. 5K in electronics??? It's a Mini knot a Russian spy trawler, that's unless you built in an allowance for Booboo's stereo Cheap fun especially as it can be spread out over a time frame. Trysails and storm jibs must be carried and count as part of the 8 sails allowed on board at any one time. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest need for speed Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 So ocean race ready around - 47300 for the list of bits as Nam posted earlier 13000 was Booboos ballpark figure for a suite of sails 15000 for safety gear, guessing here and possibly high 10000 for build beverages and shiney things to shut down the 'That bloody boat again' comments from the missus. Grand total 85K race ready or exceptionally close too. 5K in electronics??? It's a Mini knot a Russian spy trawler, that's unless you built in an allowance for Booboo's stereo Cheap fun especially as it can be spread out over a time frame. Trysails and storm jibs must be carried and count as part of the 8 sails allowed on board at any one time. Then Double it! in reality this does not include $$$ for guys who can't do everything... Transportation of boat to water? Riggers cost to rig boat (labour) Rigging? Paint? (spray painter / labour) Tool that you used to have but were lost / stolen / borrowed! Sundry stuff like sand paper gloves, tinber for jig, screws and nails. Shed hire? lost wages / holidays $$$? cloth resin fillers? tillers, Interior fit out? (Hammock) and plastic bucket) Engineer to fab fin and bulb! hydarulics / system to tilt keel and all sundry equip, engineer to fit?, and painting! labour for a elctronics guru to wire and fit a good electronics package! Rope! price increases! i like the old method of pricing better... price of the average steak you can buy in a resteraunt(porterhouse) multiplied by the LOA... thus $25 x 6.5 = $162.5K I bet $162.5K is closer! any takers? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest at the dairy Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 So ocean race ready around - 47300 for the list of bits as Nam posted earlier 13000 was Booboos ballpark figure for a suite of sails 15000 for safety gear, guessing here and possibly high 10000 for build beverages and shiney things to shut down the 'That bloody boat again' comments from the missus. Grand total 85K race ready or exceptionally close too. 5K in electronics??? It's a Mini knot a Russian spy trawler, that's unless you built in an allowance for Booboo's stereo Cheap fun especially as it can be spread out over a time frame. Trysails and storm jibs must be carried and count as part of the 8 sails allowed on board at any one time. Then Double it! in reality this does not include $$$ for guys who can't do everything... Transportation of boat to water? Riggers cost to rig boat (labour) Rigging? Paint? (spray painter / labour) Tool that you used to have but were lost / stolen / borrowed! Sundry stuff like sand paper gloves, tinber for jig, screws and nails. Shed hire? lost wages / holidays $$$? cloth resin fillers? tillers, Interior fit out? (Hammock) and plastic bucket) Engineer to fab fin and bulb! hydarulics / system to tilt keel and all sundry equip, engineer to fit?, and painting! labour for a elctronics guru to wire and fit a good electronics package! Rope! price increases! i like the old method of pricing better... price of the average steak you can buy in a resteraunt(porterhouse) multiplied by the LOA... thus $25 x 6.5 = $162.5K I bet $162.5K is closer! any takers? I believe most of the things you mentioned there such as keel Fab was quoted in the price by Nam off, minis don't have hydarulics for the keel..... its all block and tackle......might need to re-read the costings/research this style of boat.... The idea is if you do it by your self it will be cheap, so that is the quoted prices..... if you want to pay someone then yes it will cost you double, I make it $80K if you do it your self, so $160K if you pay someone is probably right! Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 I feel that there 80- 85k ready to race is pretty real. I went down the track of building a ORC GP26 A while back and we were looking a 60k to sailing, without labour and safty. In reality the mini's are very similar in areas and costs to the 8.5 multis - so do it JT style and be in the water for under 40 (30k plus the keel ), or all the way up to the carbon farriers at ....... Chris Sayer claimed a labour- less cost of 90k for his carbon protos back in 2002/3 Link to post Share on other sites
Guest creative suffering Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 [i believe most of the things you mentioned there such as keel Fab was quoted in the price by Nam off, minis don't have hydarulics for the keel..... its all block and tackle......might need to re-read the costings/research this style of boat.... The idea is if you do it by your self it will be cheap, so that is the quoted prices..... if you want to pay someone then yes it will cost you double, I make it $80K if you do it your self, so $160K if you pay someone is probably right! I think need for speed is going to be fairly accurate if you take the previous comment about being competitive internationally and the fact that not everybody can do everything or has mates in the industry that can do MAtes rates! Sure there will be people who do it on the cheap but... will they be competitve and reliable? which goes back to previous comments about our own local fleet / standard and a division in the international event for budget boats! to be competitie you will need a certain level of good equipment and a fast boat! really what are you trying to achieve? i believe there are two groups here. 1. top class boats and international competitions as a priority and local event where possible. (and want there boats asap!) 2. the "budget guy who wants to race in a fantastic division locally, with a good boat and take his time building it! this is a great concept and someone, right now, should set up a class association and get people to sign up (free)with their intentions and time frames and then you can get some ideas of numbers and volumes of gear you can bulk buy! you could get a "sign up" agreement / commitment signed to get totall "buy in". (commitment to build?) You could even look at (for logisctics) pooling together to hire one big "centralized" shed and split the costs (rent, electricity, tools...) while sharing ideas and helping out each other. After all you always need someone to use that glue you mixed top much of!!! imagine one shed with ten guys going for it! You could? also all help build the hulls together (of the jig or jigs) and then draw straws as to which hull you get! (this means max input, quality and quick built of hulls?)... After all if you are doing strip plank construction then... for example... ten guys on long boards will fair up the ceder hull (prior to glassing) faster than one! then when the hulls are all done...do your own thing! just ideas.NZ.universe Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nam Off Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Your on the money fella....some really good points there,the bulk set up is a great idea,everyone brings there talents and tools to the shed and get involved,also the piss ups will be more fun!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Panic Knot 6 Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Does anyone had a set of rules in english??? Can the main be reefed to 40% of luff lenght be classifled as the stormmain and not need for an trysail???? SJB, I posted a link to the English version of the rules a few pages back in this thread. PM me your email if you can't find it and I'll send it through (it's too big to attach here). To stick to the rules, trysail and storm jib are specified requirements and trysail needs to be seperate from main. Cheers Will Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Group buying is a must to reduce costs. And I think you'll find many suppliers will happily do deals for something like this. I'll happily do that and are working out a package price now, more just as a FYI to give people an idea of cost. Knot sure if I liked CS's implication that home builds wouldn't be competitive internationally. I think you'll find the dick on the stick has a far higher percentage of the input into the results than the boats, in comparison with most other types of yachting. I see no reason a 'knot the latest and greatest' boat can't win if sailed by a kiwi in a demon like manner. Actually look back in previous results and you'll see all the top boats aren't always the new flash ones, they are all the best sailed though. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nam Off Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Im with ya Knotty.....pricing for what part are you bringing to the table,shed,garage? Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Complete and full Gucci ropes and anchoring gear type package. Some ropes will probably come with the rig, depending on how you do it, but they won't be as sexy as ours. A brave statement I know but then I'm seriously more anal than all the other rope dudes More just out of interest really. Oh and do we have the perfect anchor, Oh yes we do Knot only fit the rules but also actually work. Up in the EU they never use anchors but I see raft-ups, Piedy style, here so something that should probably work would be good. If we work though all the bits it will give everyone a better idea how much they have to cut back on bling for the girlfriends in lieu of getting a cool pocket rocket. As CS mentioned the little bits around the edges can add up quick if you aren't ready for them. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nam Off Posted May 4, 2009 Share Posted May 4, 2009 Well Knotty here is your chance,how much for a full cordage package x 5,include halyards. Link to post Share on other sites
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