Guest Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 " Knot me" Thanks for your post, im glad to see there are a few nice people out there.... I do have one question, i have presold some of the plans to an overseas market. How do you suggest i sell them to the NZ one??? It was easy for me to sell offshore as in my line of work, i mainly deal with overseas clients (many of whom sail and race.). Id be keen to work with people here (in NZ) to look at collectively selling and building my boat. Due to the nature of the race im in the process of creating, there have been changes to the boat to ensure she met with cat 1 and 0 and has been strengthend in accordance to the offshore rules. our boat maybe alittle heavier than a standard mini, however a standard mini couldnt handle the southern ocean. I have been in contact with a couple of empty yards (owners) in Akl to lease and to see if i can use it to build some boats (basic models) and to be able to test them and show them to the public and to see if we can get some local interest. Not too sure how well it would work but, i gotta try something. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 SloopJohnb, Dont worry the world is full of negitive people, one of the reasons why i kept quiet (and still may)is because it gave me a chance to do what i needed to do, with out the backstabbing and the smartarse comments.... I did what i need to do and will keep going until succeed at getting a boat completed and in the water, (and if not this boat then i wont stop till we get it right.) I wont be posting pix of the boat or the build until i know that she is 100% ready to be shown to the world. I have made alot of changes to the French version of the mini and adapted it to suit the southern ocean. There was alot of highs and lows and we now feel we have a product we can be very proud of. (it wont look any different on the surface, but under the skin, there are massive changes.) As mentioned in the first post i wrote, we are doing all we can to get the boat for the display in Welly, but im not going to rush something this important to me (and our team) just to please the sh*t stirrers. We are working hard to get her ready but we will do what we can as there is benifit in it for us (as well as the public). Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 " Knot me" Thanks for your post, im glad to see there are a few nice people out there.... There's a lot more than just me but I suspect a few have got a bit jaded with the goings on. SloopJB for example is a good bloke (don't for Christ sake tell him though) and a big supporter of this type of yachting. I think his response was knot unreasonable the way you wrote your posts. It's a interweb thing where many of us find it hard to write what we are thinking without it coming across a bit weird often. I do have one question, i have presold some of the plans to an overseas market. How do you suggest i sell them to the NZ one?? Show people something of substance would be the 1st call I'd think. NZ is small and once people see something happening the word will spread fast. I think if you plopped a boat in the water tomorrow you'd be surprised at the response. There are more than a few very interested in these boats but as is the Kiwi way, most have to be lead by the nose to the place they want to go anyway. The response from most boaties and the industry to the Mini plan was very positive and lots of help was offered. So I see no reason why it wouldn't also be to your version of the plan. But people need to be hyped up a bit to get it re-ignited. Flick us a picture, drawing or something to wet the taste buds. You will get comments, some of which you might knot like but that's the way it goes. Read them all, pick out the good bits and just forget about the rest. Even the knockers sometimes do come up with good ideas or reasons why one of yours isn't possibly that crash hot. If you like write a list of all the serial knockers, of which there is very few, and once you recover from the launching hangover, just remind them of what they said you couldn't do. Believe me that is a huge pile of fun Just like running any business, you do have to take the good with the bad and try to make the best of it all come together to work for you. It's just the way the world rolls in this rich tapestry we call life. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 I couldnt have said it any better myself.... I will have a dig around this weekend and see what i can find to post here... Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 27, 2010 Share Posted December 27, 2010 HI All, and Merry xmas and a happy new year. Update Due to issues in Wellington, im now moving the boat and all its related gear to AKL (asap) to complete the build. I am waiting to hear back from frieght companies as to backload prices but im hoping to have the almost completed yacht here early in the new year. Problem... Im now needing somewhere to put her so i can finish the build. If anybody knows of a nice clean shed/large garage thats very secure with a toilet and shower for rent (cheap) please let me know. Ive got my ears open and real estate agents on the hunt but they all seem pretty pricey to rent. Im going to be based in Albany so anywhere near there would be great... If anybody knows of a place, please email me, id be most grateful. Thanks Wayne Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 should be a new mini on the water in the next year or 3...although a class illegal one at that... Link to post Share on other sites
Huey 7 Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 this was a great thread .lots of people thinking . what ever happened? come on and get it going again . Link to post Share on other sites
BvanVugt 0 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Hey Guys I totally agree with Huey, a great class that i personally feel has the potential to get alot of support down here in NZ. Im planning on building my own Mini after ive finished uni and its good to see there are other people who have already started building or have an interest in the class. Whats currently avaliable for such a small boat in terms of offshore/coastal racing in and around NZ? or is this typically only restricted to getting cat 1/3? Hope there is still some momentum behind the class and that by the time im done (5-10yr's away) there is some sort of fleet already tearing around the Pacific. Link to post Share on other sites
Huey 7 Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 gracefull swan .what ever happened? with dan leech and leading edge so much was accomplished !! they managed to fire so many responses... there was also RNI that got things buzzing ,such great coverage well done crew.org.nz . it seems that working day jobs !!! seems to get in the way of modern sailing , such great endeavours but are every day sailors becoming arm chair voyeurers maybe the night panther is the only way to go "keep it simple" that may be why crac a jac is such an example !! cheers anyway to those having a go Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 This is great reading. Whatever happened here? Did any get built? The french love them but they have declined a bit over there. Link to post Share on other sites
Hurts 6 Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 No Mini 6.5's got created out of this brainstorming session that I'm aware of. KM sold his half built one. This thread did really get me thinking about building a boat so it did eventually result in a new 8.5 Trimaran. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 That's good to hear Hurts - hate to think all that talking was wasted. JP the end result was "IT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE". AS we were struggling to keep the prices under control ISAF came up with a new bit of paper that bunged the price up another 15% approx , and everyone lost interest. Conclusion - to build even a tiny race boat with offshore capability these days it too expensive for most people. It might be possible if done as strict one design and "lesser" technology to bring the price back a bit - but even then I would say doubtful, and you would then lose some of the potential builders and the group discounts disappear and cost goes up again. But if you have any helpful suggestions - we're listening. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Yeah Mini's are a tricky one. All the gear is the same size as an 8-9m boat, except the hull itself! From Memory, the 403 BBW designed boats Chris Sayer launched were about $250k each. So around the same price as a Karma Police project. They're a very expensive 21 footer. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 JP the end result was "IT WAS TOO EXPENSIVE". Brought on by that seriously stupid move by YNZ to what appears to be blindly follow some EU dicks re that ISO approval bullshit. As much as they protested it would be a good move, a office would open down here and it would make boats safer, it would only be a couple of $1000, all 4 turned out, as expected by most, to be total twaddle and nothing of the sort. End results some boats weren't and will knot be built in NZ now, also boats are still breaking. The other reason it got pricey was that as much of a well run well proven semi-one design 650 rule the usual Kiwi thing kicked in and some wanted to follow the rules yet some thought it needed 'improving' and yet others thought a 6.5mt boat should be faster so they wanted something else. So it wasn't one 650 design being built hence saving due to group cost sharing it was lining up to be 3 or 4 versions, killing most of the potential savings. Until we all realise a couple of key points no class like this will take off in NZ, that has further been shown to be true by the likes of the T30's and a few others. Those points being - 1 - Speed is relative and speed has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of a yacht race. 2 - Yes everyone has ideas that are faster than the next dude. Yes again sadly that's often proved total bullshit. The odd one does but most don't. Accept that and build what the guy next to you is. The T30's showed how 'I'm smarter and want' can easily kill what could have been a rocking class with nice numbers. 3 - 650's and boats of their ilk are high performance specialty boats. Boats like that cost, if you want one you live with those costs. 4 - NZ is small and far away from everything, at times, knot always but sometimes, we have to pay a small premium for that. Again live with it or move. 5 - A carbon rig and carbon sails along with 100% titanium fittings do make boats fast but they cost large. Until most NZ yachties realise they would get across a finish line a LOT sooner if they didn't buy all that carbon and titanium and spent a huge $39.95 on a Frank Bethwaite 'How to sail a yacht fast for retards' book, the sooner they will realise boats can be a lot cheaper than most have been made. You might even improve your results as well 6 - If you want mission critical only a boat can be quite cheap. If you choose to have a chartplotter interfaced with your iFridge to energise your laptop going forward, it will cost. It'll make the boat no faster, probably slower and it's still cost. If you want non-mission critical toys and gadgets that's fine but don't bitch it makes boating expensive. 7 - and more but that's the gist of why this project struggled. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Shame. i remember watching a fleet race out of Douarnenez france (once a great Sardine port) and wanting one. I wonder what happened to gracefulswan and his boat? i guess with your single handed series are really doing this anyway...? wait a minute... is you made it a "NZ mini 780" class and got the existing smaller boats (trailer sailors) to add a scoop to bring them up to length and got all the other 7.8metre boats like ross's, nolexs, elliots, farrs, Gazelle's... to compete you would have a fleet. then apply a simple handicap system. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 You're about 30 pages late on that I think JP. It was mentioned and then decided it was a 'why would ya?'. Besides none of those boats can do what a Mini does. Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 You're about 30 pages late on that I think JP. It was mentioned and then decided it was a 'why would ya?'. Besides none of those boats can do what a Mini does. true. Link to post Share on other sites
Kiteroa 8 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Maybe one day something like this will work out here, but the cost is a problem. I remember sailing back from Tauranga on the second 403 mini's and being amazed at how quick they were. But it was also one of the hardest yachts I've sailed. Agreed, titanium fittings don't give much bang for your buck, but carbon rigs are worth having. On a mini the difference between carbon and alloy rigs is night and day. The alloy rigged mini's pitched something terrible on the wind. Put a carbon stick on and the motion changes and the boat finds another gear. Link to post Share on other sites
203 0 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 its the same with any boat, A carbon rig will always make the boat find another gear compared to the alloy rig.. Exactly why the 3.7 has a carbon rig aloud in the rules and no one uses alloy ones... Link to post Share on other sites
Atom Ant 0 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Just playing devils advocate here but if everyone has a carbon rig then where is the benefit? All that happens is the price of the boat goes up, and the performance stays the same relative to the boat next to you. Link to post Share on other sites
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