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Thanks for your support YNZ


Deep Purple

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YNZ recognise that the class were in a rebuilding phase and to support this waived the association’s affiliation fee for the previous season. YNZ hadn’t heard from the association since waiving the levy and have not had a response from letters sent out in an effort to contact the association. YNZ would be open to an approach from the class requesting an additional years relief if they felt they needed it. news to us and none of this was mentioned in the email which gave us no options other than 3 days to pay the 2012/13 levy or face the YNZ board. If the new association decides to affiliate then we will pay our way.

 

Any affiliated class is entitled to support from YNZ. Being affiliated to Yachting New Zealand and developing a relationship with them will help grow the class and provide the support they are looking for. YNZ has five very capable Regional Support Officers, two of whom are based in Auckland. They assist the class and clubs in a number of areas including promoting the class, assisting in running events and connecting the class with YNZ, new sailors and clubs. We are doing fine with promotion, short of YNZ subsidising the building of new boats there isn't a lot they can help with. All events will be run by affiliated clubs who are more than happy to accommodate a 15 boat fleet.

 

YNZ can assist the class in promoting themselves through the YNZ website and e-newsletter, Briefings. There is sub site for each class which can be linked to the classes own website, an online event Calendar and a news section for each class. Recently the Elliot 5.9 class have been doing this very successfully (http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/elliott-59 ... ssociation). Questionable as to the word very. The biggest news in E5.9's in decades isn't mentioned on the YNZ site and they seem to prefer social media for announcements and interaction. E5.9's are doing a great job with their class but through the efforts of a good keen leadership. The biggest keelboat class in NZ, the Y88, doesn't list any events on the calendar, the 1020's only list their nationals not where they might be club racing and nothing as to association meetings, no class website, not much happening. Although other keelboat classes are listed, YNZ's report dated 6/09 list only the 88 and 1020 as affiliated keelboat classes. I suspect the others listed are for show only. Google has rendered tired directories redundant.

 

YNZ works alongside class associations to help them run quality national championships by providing guidance around race documentation, helping source qualified race officials, and helping ensure higher quality events.

YNZ affiliated Class are invited to utilise Yachting New Zealand’s Programmes, products and services; including national training schemes, coach education and race official training.

I can't imagine why we would want to run our own events when any number of clubs would love to add 15 boats to their entry and bar takings

Everything mentioned above is available to the clubs that run the events. All association members that race have to belong to an affiliated club so once again, they are already entitled to those services. You can't justify affiliation for associations by offering services that their members are already entitled to

 

Currently the cost to a class to affiliate to YNZ is $105 a year. Noted

 

YNZ would like to think people feel they could give them a call to discuss any issues or questions they may have relating to clubs, classes or the sport.

Ross930 sailors would like to think YNZ, having gone to the trouble to scroll down a webpage to get email addresses right at the bottom would read a little of the text on the way and make enquiries before releasing the hounds over an old debt.

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I think it is important for all to remember the big picture and appreciate what yachting New Zealand does for yachting across the board in NZ. Ross 930 sailors may put blinders, on and maybe only look at themselves and perhaps the group is at fault for not being more proactive and soliciting support. Being involved with one of Auckland junior clubs, I have nothing but praise for the support our club has received with youth sailing. Remember the big picture and although you feel your YNZ fees don't give great return, you are all obviously passionate about the sport and will one day have kids or grand children involved with sailing. You may have also perhaps HAVE received support from YNZ at an earlier time in your lives.

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Whilst the original email & demand for fees is a bit over the top for a reforming association, I agree with sevenseas that YNZ do a heap for youth yachting & in my involvement I have nothing but praise for the Auckland regional reps.

 

Whilst the clubs you will race under have paid their fees, and I too pay 3 lots of subs, the price of a cup of coffee per boat each year is not much to pay towards the use of ISAF Yacht Racing rules, training and qualification of race officers/umpires/judges, & assistance/motivation to the youth who will become crews and future owners. It is after all the class that is promoting the racing between the boats, presumably to the advantage of the owners by way of more-or-less one-design racing. It is more a win for the clubs with larger fleets possibly being more attractive to sponsors, and as noted, bigger bar takings.

 

YNZ affiliation does allow you to call your championship a Nationals rather than an Intergalactic or whatever. It is possible that the regional reps are busy with the youth but would assist the adults if an approach were made. If there were to more actively chase the adult keelboat classes they may have to put their fees up to two coffees worth to recruit additional personnel.

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Guest Saturday Night Special

Hang on a minute here YNZ have gone out of their way to encourage foriegn classes at the detriment of our own indigenous classes.They have encouraged eliteisim instead of creating a strong base to the tree which would build the tree extremely strong at the top anyway,Have a look at the fall off after the optimist I don't believe all the bullshit about playstation and other sports I have heard the cost issues from parents . they discouraged the delelopment classes by pouring all efforts into Olympic participation (none of our great sailmakers builders or designers came through those )so whats so wonderfull about YNZ ?what they have done for youth yachting other than promote the Olympic path ? not all parents can afford that ,So answer where these kids are to go ? I think they need to look more carefully at what they are doing how they behave towards other classes and promote things other than their own barrow called Olympic yachting .Hell they cant even enforce their own safety regs accurately for keel boats .

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Totally disagree JK and seven seas.

This is not a debate about what YNZ does fro Youth sail ( which may be great but I doubt they grow future sailing revenue from the youth who seem to dissapeer very quickly), this is about a pathetic letter to an organisation whom are trying to be proactive and get a fleet going at a high level.

 

To say YNZ has done great things is a matter of perspective. From many peoples perspective They have paid a lot of money for bugger all.

 

I have personally paid thousands over the years and received nothing but understand that it is important to have a governing body.

 

This thread is about a poor attitude to this classes situation and shows a obvious lack of proactive leadership and poor house keeping.

 

This thread shows that YNZ's focus is on Money ahead of support, sailing, and people.

 

Sorry but this is a reflection of a attitude of arrogance and show's no support mechanism for a bunch of sailor who are doing a great job. ( not that they asked for it or need it)

 

Could you see the NZRFU doing this to a club in trouble. ( ie the Otago issue a few years ago)

 

For me YNZ are more like a debt collection agency than a group of people focused on supporting and growing NZ sailing..

 

How hard would it have been for them to arrange a meeting at a local club to discuss the outstanding monies and a solution going forward.

 

:wtf:

 

I,ve said enough. This kind of stuff make me :twisted:

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Hang on a minute here YNZ have gone out of their way to encourage foriegn classes at the detriment of our own indigenous classes.They have encouraged eliteisim instead of creating a strong base to the tree which would build the tree extremely strong at the top anyway,Have a look at the fall off after the optimist I don't believe all the bullshit about playstation and other sports I have heard the cost issues from parents . they discouraged the delelopment classes by pouring all efforts into Olympic participation (none of our great sailmakers builders or designers came through those )so whats so wonderfull about YNZ ?what they have done for youth yachting other than promote the Olympic path ? not all parents can afford that ,So answer where these kids are to go ? I think they need to look more carefully at what they are doing how they behave towards other classes and promote things other than their own barrow called Olympic yachting .Hell they cant even enforce their own safety regs accurately for keel boats .

 

Absolutely brilliant! :clap: :clap: give this man a rum!

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Topsail/nzrat, as I said I agree the letter demanding fees from a reformed R930 association was over the top, but no reason to slag off the rest of the association due to someone in the office having a lack of communication skills & understanding of what was going on with the class. There are a number of people in YNZ who are doing a good job & without these people life would be much more difficult for the local clubs, and hence the sailors they cater for.

 

YNZ would probably argue that they do have a support mechanism for a bunch of sailors, but you say they have neither asked nor need it so they have not been given the opportunity. From my perspective I see YNZ running training courses for coaches, race officers, umpires, judges, safety boat skippers. They have representatives actively helping run events during the week and weekends, travelling all over the regions. They are cooperating with clubs and youth centreboard classes fostering team and match racing + LTS/LTR courses. This is promoting things other than Olympic yachting.

 

As for the promotion of "foreign" classes, YNZ have to do something & I doubt pushing local/development classes rather than one-design international classes would actually boost participation. You might say that sailors start to drop off once they move on from these foreign classes and have to consider a local class or keelboat. Maybe things have changed with sailors not having the skills/time/money to devote to a development class or the expense of a local class - consider the cost of a new boat for a limited run local class against an Opti/29er/Laser/420/470/49er.

 

There is a drop off post Opti, but the Starling still attracts 100+ entries to their Nationals and the 420 Teams Racing gets not far short of the 200+ numbers of the Opti Nats. Once the kids get past this they do have significant pressures of education and work that may account for the drop, it cannot be placed solely at the feet of YNZ.

 

However, I do applaud the efforts that have gone in to reviving the R930 class. With only two kids left in centreboard classes, another actively keelboat racing & one on to the squaddie youth scheme, it is a class I would look at once I get the time back to devote to my sailing. At least I would have a good crew pool to draw from.

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It would be nice to see a full and comprehensive discussion/ look at/ review/ 'a word like that' of YNZ to see if it is doing what it's stakeholders, to use the wank wank word of the moment, want it to do. But that will never happen sadly as too many are too scared to speak up. Typical small town syndrome NZ bullshit that's infesting everything and usually knot for the best.

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Agreed KM. Have no problem with there existing a national sporting body as such*, but of late YNZ are doing things in our name, with no mandate, that stink.

Specifically the Takapuna debacle, and compulsory lifejackets.

*Provided it isn't dipping into the public purse... I pay for my own sailing, why can't others (yes, INCLUDING our Olympians, and the AC) do likewise. And don't get me started on football stadia...

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In my 50 or so years of competitive (and not so competitive ) sailing and cruising keelboats and c / b .I don't recall NZYF or YNZ ever doing much for the average sailors.As the thread notes they have always had their hand out and it appears to me to be to the benefit of elite sailing,olympics and staff.(What's their salary bill and CEO salary?).Even when the occasional rockstar appears at a club there is usually a charge for coaching.And where did the rockstar get their start.Mostly through the generosity and support of the average club member.It seems that YNZ has become an expensive excess requirement for average Joe Blow.Granted yachting needs an administrative structure to be in the world scene (Rules etc.) but YNZ have blurred the lines with elitist and olympic sailing and funding.These activities should be sectored off into a stand alone self funding activity and YNZ levies after a small administrative fee deduction put the funds back into amayeur sailing around clubs.And not just youth sailing.There are plenty of people who come into sailing later in life.

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That sums it up perfectly Armchair admiral. :thumbup:

 

No doubt YNZ will read this feedback, analyze their performance in these matters, discuss how the y are viewed by their customers, review, and implement a plan to win back confidence in THE PEOPLE WHO PAY THEIR WAGES...

 

Yeah right! :crazy:

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Must be true then armchairadmiral/topsail, because I just read it on the Internet!

 

If you feel put out because you cannot recall YNZ doing anything for you, or does not appear to be doing much for sailors that come in later in life, then ask them you may be surprised. If you have no experience of YNZ ever assisting anyone then go down to any centreboard club in Auckland and ask them how much assistance they get, maybe they are the ones that ask! Then ponder for a second how many of the sailors at those clubs are "elite" or "Olympic" sailors. From my observation of what they do they spend a considerable amount of effort at the grass roots level.

 

As for the people who pay their wages - have you ever stopped to ask how many of the people involved with YNZ are volunteers? If people do have a problem with the way it is run they could always volunteer their time & get involved.

 

I do not agree with everything they do, personally I thought having their base at Okahu Bay would make far more sense given we are all one super city now. It would put them closer to the ASC so seeing the development classes in the skiffs something might rub off!!!

 

Lastly, given YNZ are there to foster the sport of sailing, which I would take to be the competitive rather than cruising side, then pushing success at an elite level is a valid way of inspiring younger sailors - there was a huge surge in interest in 29er and 420 sailing post the Olympics - and once you have them hooked then it is a sport for life. So, if you were on a limited budget and looking to grow participation in the sport what would you do? Try and inspire the young or run intro to cruising classes for the older set?

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ASpecifically the Takapuna debacle, and compulsory lifejackets.

*Provided it isn't dipping into the public purse... I pay for my own sailing, why can't others (yes, INCLUDING our Olympians, and the AC) do likewise. And don't get me started on football stadia...

Taka yes a total shambles that one but be a little careful who you pick on over the life jacket goings on, many who are in the 'over all' list don't actually want the current situation to change.

 

Anyway on the beer token front, have some numbers.

 

YNZ had a total income of $5,148,898 in the 2012 year.

 

Of that

$471,000 was from Affiliation fees

$223,000 from Programmes and courses

$64,700 from Registrations, Handicaps and Safety

$252,000 from Investment income

and the rest was pretty much Grants, Donations and funding from the assorted trusts and Sport NZ. Sport NZ chucked in a smidgen over 3.5 mil.

 

For every $1 of that tagged to Olympics,

$0.382 was tagged to Club Development

$0.013 tagged to Sport Development.

 

YNZ had a total expenditure of 5,135,644 in the same 2012 year.

 

Of that

$106,000 went on Promos and Comms

$348,000 went on Admin

$1,625,000 went on Personnel

$270,000 went on Programmes and training courses

$2,611,000 went to Olympics (of which 511,000 was talent development)

$17,351 to registrations, Handicaps and Safety

 

For every $1 spent on the Olympics

$0.375 was spent on Club Services

$0.006 was spent on Sport Development.

 

Obviously the above is a shortened version that doesn’t break everything down to the last cent. Also some numbers have been rounded.

 

For a more detailed breakdown it’s all here in their Annual Report, which is freely available on the YNZ website.

 

 

I was surprised to see that YNZ doesn’t pay taxes. I am assuming and reading it as ‘Club Services’ is everything but Olympics except this ‘Sport Development” bit, which is tiny in the big scheme.

 

Knot too sure just by what they mean ‘Sport Development’ mind you as they only spent $22,451 on it in the entire year it’s something they don’t seen to consider a high priority, especially considering they spent less than 50% of the income tagged to that category.

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Thanks KM.Interesting numbers ! As anticipated ! Just on $2million on personnel and admin.An online inspection of personnel indicates high focus on elite and olympics . CEO will be paid $250 plus in that.My question remains ...what substantial initiatives for your average Joe Blow have been made by YNZ consistently over the years that justify taking this amount of fees off the average yachtie ?....

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Well as I see it, but no doubt JK will clarify this for me :crazy: , NZ Rat and Armchair admiral are right on the money. (Excuse the pun)

 

YNZ spends over half its income on ...

 

salaries ( for people to write poor letters and staff to NOT be engaged with local classes) and...

 

Olympic Elite development of "pre selected" sailors ( many who can afford the campaigns themselves such as Hamish Pepper, craig Monk...)

While offering no Olympic trials to allow other sailors the chance to prove themselves against these Elite sailor whom are offshore sailing to qualify the country.

 

As I see it NZ Rat is right on the money with his thought regarding YNZ feeding the top while killing the roots of the tree ( the clubs and local classes)

 

This letter from YNZ is just income gathering to support paying wages and elite Olympic yachtsman... and why...

 

 

Well Sparcs ( sport NZ) funding to YNZ is based on olympic results only.

 

knot me what part of the income is Sparc funding?

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We had a special meeting up at the Weiti Boating club a few months back for the purpose of voting whether or not to disaffiliate from YNZ. To the credit of YNZ, they sent Ralph Roberts and Andrew Clouston to try and convince us to keep them on the tab. I went along with the view that they did very little for anyone other than Andrew Murdoch. However, they got up and spend 30 mins telling us what they did outside of funding the Olympics. I can't remember all of it, but they actually do quite a lot. and I voted to stick with them because of what they had to say.

 

I'll ask Andrew for a transcript of their talk that night, cause it was good enough to change my perspective 180 degrees.

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As for the people who pay their wages - have you ever stopped to ask how many of the people involved with YNZ are volunteers? If people do have a problem with the way it is run they could always volunteer their time & get involved.

What a bloody laugh!! I volunteered a few years back as an inspector and was completely shot down by the gits in charge. Apparently nearly 1/2 a million miles at sea, registered MNZ & SSM surveyor and a fair bit of other experience didn't satisfy them because I didn't have the right coloured tie or something. Fossil brought up the "volunteer" lark thing a few years back and was quite stunned to hear my experience. YNZ shot their credibility to hell when they agreed to administer Cat 1 for cruising boats. Same as the AA administering driver's licensing. From a representative body to a regulatory body that the member still has to pay for. With one notable exception most of YNZ category inspectors know jackshit about cruising reality. They may think they do but then again private security guards think they know a bit about being policemen.

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