Wellington Yachting Assn - Cook Strait Sailing Club

[grantmc 59]

What has happened to Wgtn Yachting Assn? Has it closed down or is it just asleep? Their web site hasn't been updated since before the Rugby World Cup.

 

Very interested to know more about the Cook Strait Sailing Club. Anyone here involved? What are your views? What does one get for the $100 sub? Is it active? Web site at http://www.cssc.org.nz doesn't really say anything.

[drbob 0]

I believe WYA has moved its website here: http://www.sportsground.co.nz/wya

 

Cook Strait Sailing Club was established by some Welly keelboat and classic sailors who wanted to do something different, do their own thing from time to time, especially running races or other sailing events when their clubs' programmes had nothing on. We're about going sailing without too much fuss and overhead around it. There are so many boats parked, not sailing. We want these peope to get out on the water again.

 

Our programme will be fleshed out soon (to some extent we're waiting to see how other clubs' calendars look because we're not here to mess things up), but our intention is to sail at least once a month and on long weekends - you'll see on our website we plan to have a one day regatta at Labour Weekend, and we're planning a cruising trip to the Sounds at Easter.

 

We've applied for YNZ affiliation so we can run events in our own right.

 

So, to answer the question about what you get for the $100 membership fee - you support a club that's focussed on people spending time on the water, whether competitively or socially, where membership fees are used for the benefit of sailing.

 

Also as a member you get a discount on purchases at the Cellar Room in Brooklyn

 

David Roberts

President CSSC

[possum 0]

Sad to see the Wellytown scene heading in the same direction as Auckland. Ever more organisations offering sailing while the established clubs that support the infrastructure of yachting are undermined by these groups being granted equivalent status. Low subs, no overhead=no contribution to the infrastructure of the sport in the end, it just makes yachting poorer in the long run.

[Guest]

What infrastructure, precisely, are you talking about possum?

[drbob 0]

Low subs, no overhead=no contribution to the infrastructure of the sport in the end, it just makes yachting poorer in the long run.

 

Not sure how having low overheads doesn't contribute to the infrastructure of the sport, making yachting poorer.

 

Actually, I'm not even sure what infrastructure overheads contribute to.

[Guest]

...and while you are at it, could you please explain how you think any established yacht club is being "undermined" in any way at all by CSSC?

 

I think I am correct in saying that the number of CSSC members who are not also paid up members of at least one of the established clubs is zero.

 

If the members of CSSC are all paid up members of the established clubs, and are still participating actively in the race programmes of those established clubs, and serving as volunteers and committee members and even board members of those established clubs, and if the CSSC is actively avoiding scheduling any of it's events to clash with any of the established clubs' programmes, I am at a loss to understand how anything is being undermined.

 

If

 

1. People who are actively involved in the established clubs want to set up their own club IN ADDITION to (as opposed to INSTEAD OF, or as an alternatvie to) the existing clubs....

 

and

 

2. If in so doing so they write it into their constitution (as CSSC has done - have a look on the CSSC website http://www.cssc.org.nz under "About - Constitution") that it is a founding principle of the club that it will not own assets or infrastructure (such as a club house) so that their extra club in no way diverts resources away from the existing clubs...

 

and

 

3. They do so because they want to sail, with and against their friends, IN ADDITION to the sailing they currently do with the existing clubs...

 

and

 

4. They do so so they can socialise in the way they want to with those friends...

 

How can that possibly undermine anything the existing clubs are doing or involved in, and how can them doing so annoy anyone else? Isn't it their business what they do with their time and their boats and their friends?

[grantmc 59]

In respect to WYA, the web site I have is http://www.wya.wellington.net.nz/. It contains a large volume of content, most relevant, but it hasn't been updated since 2011. I didn't know that there were any other sites.

 

The issue Possum raises might be a fair criticism although I'm not sure I see the evidence. Apart from Sailability I can't think of another sailing club starting in the Wellington region in the last 20 years. I've no knowledge of the Auckland scene but if people want to try getting something new started perhaps it's because the established Clubs aren't adapting.

 

I think many people starting in the sport (say in the last 10 years) eventually get turned off if their yacht clubs' only offering is endless sail boat racing around the cans and a social programme for the over fifties. The Committee's are mainly made up of those same over fifties people and introducing new programmes seems to be beyond them. They've been watching their memberships steadily decreasing, along with their race fleets for years, but are keeping their hands firmly on the tillers.

 

I hear what CSSC is saying but the calendar is actually very full already, especially long weekends. Where is CSSC planning on doing their races and cruises? Why not compete with the status quo? It's the only way to get change and improvement. David's point about parked up boats is valid but getting those skippers on the water; not easy.

 

In respect to yachting resources here's a thought. A $100 subscription for CSSC won’t leave much left over once the Club has paid affiliation fees to YNZ. And if the Club doesn't affiliate holding races isn't too simple. Mana Cruising Club's non affiliation is a case in point. Mana's races are all held under the Plimmerton Club's banner (it is affiliated). Another aspect is that all the Wellington Yachting Assn affiliated Clubs offer associate memberships for members of other clubs. Is it possible that someone might join CSSC (cost $100) just so they can join say Port Nick as an associate (cost $160)? If so then they gain the benefits of membership but at a significant discount to a senior membership at Port Nick?

[Guest]

In respect to yachting resources here's a thought. A $100 subscription for CSSC won’t leave much left over once the Club has paid affiliation fees to YNZ.

 

What does there need to be anything left over for?

 

CSSC does not have and doesn't want a club house, or a mark boat, or a bar. It has a website, and it has members. The members provide boats and marks and motor out on sailing days, run their own races - from on the water, and cater and run their own after sailing bbq's and parties, either on their boats, or in their own homes.

 

Sailing doesn't have to be complicated.

 

CSSC - just sailing.

[Guest]

In respect to yachting resources here's a thought. A $100 subscription for CSSC won’t leave much left over once the Club has paid affiliation fees to YNZ.

 

What does there need to be anything left over for?

 

CSSC does not have and doesn't want a club house, or a mark boat, or a bar. It has a website, and it has members. The members provide boats and marks and motor out on sailing days, run their own races - from on the water, and cater and run their own after sailing bbq's and parties, either on their boats, or in their own homes.

 

Sailing doesn't have to be complicated.

 

CSSC - just sailing.

 

 

What a dilemma

 

Q: can you be a member of this CSSC ( once affiliated to,YNZ) without being a member of another club!

 

A: yes!

 

Sooo... Possum is correct, - in that future racing at the CSSC could be full of sailors with no ties to a club and its associated facilities.(infrastructure)

 

This is dangerous ground and could drive sailors for this cheaper option to get their jollies.

 

I actually applaud it as this is just like having competition in any other market.

 

As far as I can see this gives sailors options to expensive and poorly run clubs that fail to give bang for buck and take money with little options for sailors who "just want to sail"

 

This also gives then options on course setting and not taking the rubbish handed to them from their current club.

 

Also Many clubs now are just glorified bars with low sailing numbers and more drinkers than sailors. They are profit rather than sailor driven.

 

As for infrastructure. Well if this club goes ahead and gets the numbers sailing at the expense of existing clubs that have buildings etc then that will be interesting.

 

Obviously the people setting up this CSSC are not happy with their current club and as such if this goes ahead I cannot see them staying with their club.

 

No Brainer Kiwibardy.

 

People have choices. They could even set up sailing races without even setting up a club. Let alone belonging to the YNZ...

 

.... who in turn could do with some opposition themselves.

[Guest]

I believe WYA has moved its website here: http://www.sportsground.co.nz/wya

 

Cook Strait Sailing Club was established by some Welly keelboat and classic sailors who wanted to do something different, do their own thing from time to time, especially running races or other sailing events when their clubs' programmes had nothing on. We're about going sailing without too much fuss and overhead around it. There are so many boats parked, not sailing. We want these peope to get out on the water again.

 

Our programme will be fleshed out soon (to some extent we're waiting to see how other clubs' calendars look because we're not here to mess things up), but our intention is to sail at least once a month and on long weekends - you'll see on our website we plan to have a one day regatta at Labour Weekend, and we're planning a cruising trip to the Sounds at Easter.

 

We've applied for YNZ affiliation so we can run events in our own right.

 

So, to answer the question about what you get for the $100 membership fee - you support a club that's focussed on people spending time on the water, whether competitively or socially, where membership fees are used for the benefit of sailing.

 

Also as a member you get a discount on purchases at the Cellar Room in Brooklyn

 

David Roberts

President CSSC

 

Hey Dr Bob, curious why your current club could not facilitate these ideas?

 

Are they unapproachable, inflexible...?

 

I think it is a great idea and might give some clubs something to think about.

 

I know some sailors are not happy with certain clubs racing programme's and the value they get for the fee's paid.

 

Hope it goes well

[Guest]

Its been a while since I felt the need to post, but CSSC is something I really support.

Just so every one understands where I’m coming from, I'm one of the instigators of CSSC, and I'm also on the YNZ Board.

posting.php?mode=reply&f=28&t=22485#

As Dr Bob says ...Cook Strait Sailing Club was established by some Welly keelboat and classic sailors who wanted to do their own thing from time to time, run races or other sailing events when their clubs' programmes had nothing on such as Sunday mornings, Long weekends, Easter etc etc. If others want to join us, that’s great. If they don't, that's ok too. The current mainstream clubs offer plenty of options.

 

CSSC is focused totally on sailing. It doesn’t have a financial imperative to grow membership and generate income to fund club rooms, start boxes, rescue boats or paid staff. When it comes to sailing, all those things are all fringe benefits and they get mighty expensive mighty quick. All you really need is “people, boats and sailing”

This philosophy is a big challenge to the status quo of the traditional clubs and also YNZ. If you look at a typical club cost structure you’ll see what I mean.

 

Skipper’s Sailing membership $480, Plus 4 x Crew who are all Sailing members 4x 480, plus season Entry $250 equals $2650 per boat before you even start sailing. Lets assume there are 15 boats sailing. There’s $39,750 to fund the sailing programme. But it is run by volunteers and there are no prizes. So where does the money go. Well $3k goes to YNZ. Some goes on fuel for the rescue boat and the rest goes to print the programme, maintain the buildings and pay the staff.

 

Sailing doesn’t have to be an expensive sport, and if we were to focus on what we really need to do to go sailing, we would make our sport a lot more affordable.

 

From Cook Strait Sailing Club’s perspective, When there’s nothing else happening we will be going sailing, if you want to join us your welcome. If you don’t, that’s okay too.

[Guest]

Sounds ridiculous to me. Port Nick has maintained a very active offshore programme for the past 30 years.

 

It is important to note, however, that there is a limit to how much offshore sailing is feasible.

 

Having spent 20 odd year running offshore races, I would say that the chief impediments to a successful offshore programme are the requirements for aspiring offshore yachtsmen to present themselves on duty for:-

 

1. Kids' sport on Saturday

2. Weekly nooky on Sunday AM. followed by

3. Lawn mowing on Sunday afternoon

 

That's why famous offshore yachties have that challenged, pensive, haunted look.

[Guest]

That's great Floosie, but as asked before...

 

Why has a yacht club such as Lowry Bay, EBYMBC, RPNYC, WBSC... not been able to accommodate your requirement by offering a racing programme for you on these "non raced days"¿

 

As I I see it if a club took up you needs then this would be free as you are already all member of said club and reciprocal club agreements would allow you to sail at other clubs to.

I suspect, and applaud you, if you are seeking an alternative racing programme but this would only make sense financially if you are dumping your current club to sail in the CSSC format.

 

I can see no advantage spending $2k+ on top of your Yacht club membership (that you are already a member, according to Kiwi Bardy)

to race the CSSC format if a current club can accommodate your need.

 

Also how will this club arrange a start boat and bouys or is it the good old line up and go around a few existing marks/obstacles.

 

If so then why charge anything? Anybody can ring a few mates and organise a casual race!

 

I love the idea! It is pure uncomplicated and shows existing clubs where the real efforts should be focussed.

 

But nobody is going to pay more money for something their club should either have on the menu or at least offer an option for. After all if it is as keenly sought as you think they will want a part of the action and $$$

 

Good luck but I think you will find the uptake a bit thin.

[Guest]

Sounds ridiculous to me. Port Nick has maintained a very active offshore programme for the past 30 years.

 

It is important to note, however, that there is a limit to how much offshore sailing is feasible.

 

Having spent 20 odd year running offshore races, I would say that the chief impediments to a successful offshore programme are the requirements for aspiring offshore yachtsmen to present themselves on duty for:-

 

1. Kids' sport on Saturday

2. Weekly nooky on Sunday AM.

3. Lawn mowing on Sunday

 

That's why famous offshore yachties have that challenged, pensive, haunted look.

 

+1.

 

I'm sure that any Welly Yacht club would listen to its members or any sailors request for alternative race programmes. If not then they are fools.

 

Looking at RPNYCs results sheets for last year it appears that the numbers racing offshore and inshore is such a small number now, that either the sailors do not like the programme, or as you have said, or...

 

The numbers are just not there.

 

Either way RPNYC need to sort that. Also I cannot see the YNZ approving another club that is splitting the numbers and potentially reducing a premier clubs sailing numbers/race schedule.

 

Mind you they probably cannot do jack turd to stop it.

 

I like the maverick "stick it up ya" nature of this. Some clubs need a good reminder of what yacht racing is about. And thus is pure sailboat racing without the bullshit. But .., the cost is silly and I think it will not fly because of this.

[notnes 0]

"The cost is silly"??

It's only One Boat Dollar. A sparrow's fart in a hurricane.

[Guest]

"The cost is silly"??

It's only One Boat Dollar. A sparrow's fart in a hurricane.

So you would pay extra money to race in races that your current club could organise for free ( on you current membership subscription)

 

Good luck with that

[Guest]

That's great Floosie, but as asked before...

 

Why has a yacht club such as Lowry Bay, EBYMBC, RPNYC, WBSC... not been able to accommodate your requirement by offering a racing programme for you on these "non raced days"¿

 

 

Well that's what you need to ask those clubs.

 

All yacht clubs start from a bunch of like minded people getting together to go sailing then they take on a life of their own and suddenly you have governance structures and management structures and fixed assets and overheads and staff to make funding applications to NZ Community Trust to fund the maintenance and sailing programmes etc etc etc.

 

Why form a club? Well that raises an interesting point. There was a "urban myth" that to run races and use RRS [rather than colregs] you needed to be an affiliated club. Apparently that's not so. If you already belong to an affiliated club you can run races using RRS.

 

Also I cannot see the YNZ approving another club that is splitting the numbers and potentially reducing a premier clubs sailing numbers/race schedule.

 

That something that YNZ is grappling with right now.

 

Good luck but I think you will find the uptake a bit thin.

 

As I said before If you want to come sailing with us, your welcome, if you don't that's okay too. That's how the coastal classic started.

[Guest]

You know what floosie. You are spot on.

 

I know exactly what you are talking about.

 

I dearly hope this is a winner. This might be a catalyst to great sailing and better things.

 

Many clubs think sailing is a fiscal /political / drinking organisation that stores boats for entertainment and runs racing to satisfy some romantic notion from days gone past.

 

Go the CSSC

 

Stienlager pure as a sponsor.

[notnes 0]

So you would pay extra money to race in races that your current club could organise for free ( on you current membership subscription)

 

Good luck with that

 

Nope, wouldn't pay to do another race that I could do for free. But I would happily (a) pay to belong to a social group that has on their membership form a commitment to never bring cheap and nasty sausages to a club barbie, and/or ( to enter in a race that wasn't available for free elsewhere.

 

Most established, and far more expensive, clubs don't/won't run races on long weekends, Easter, etc, and occasionally have had scheduled races cancelled because there haven't been people available to run them.

 

---> what floozie said.

 

Edit: I should add that I have taken such ideas to my main club (which I'm very attached to, have been there for as long as I've sailed) previously, but they seem to have an underwhelming interest in supporting extra events. Most recently they declined a suggestion to run a new version of a classic offshore, even with a couple of boats already interested.

[Guest]

If you are seeking an alternative racing programme but this would only make sense financially if you are dumping your current club to sail in the CSSC format.

 

Sorry, but I think you are wrong when you say it ONLY makes sense [...] if...

 

It makes sense to all of the people who have joined CSSC, and none of them are dumping their current club(s) to join CSSC.

 

I can see no advantage spending $2k+ on top of your Yacht club membership (that you are already a member, according to Kiwi Bardy)

to race the CSSC format if a current club can accommodate your need.

 

Please note... 'CAN' accommodate that and 'WILL' accommodate that are not the same thing.

 

Also how will this club arrange a start boat and buoys or is it the good old line up and go around a few existing marks/obstacles.

 

CSSC simply won't arrange a start boat. We don't need one. We start our own races from on the water using a gate start or a fixed transit starting line. You don't need a safety boat, you don't need a committee boat.

 

Not having them saves costs too.

 

CSSC members will make and lay their own laid marks (as needed) and/or use existing fixed navigation marks and beacons etc.

 

You don't need a committee boat to lay marks either - you can take them out on members' boats and drop and pick them up yourselves.

 

If so then why charge anything? Anybody can ring a few mates and organise a casual race!

 

You seem to assume that if a race doesn't have a committee boat or safety boat or other expenses that it automatically becomes "a casual race".

 

That's not the case. CSSC has online entry and notices to competitors. The races are not just 'casual races'... although sometimes they might be that too. They are competitive events organised and scheduled... But the focus is not on the silverware... it is on the bbq afterwards... but don't bring any cheap and nasty sausages or you will be violating the constitution and receive a 5 minute handicap penalty in the next event.

 

I love the idea! It is pure uncomplicated and shows existing clubs where the real efforts should be focused.

 

But nobody is going to pay more money for something their club should either have on the menu or at least offer an option for.

 

You are demonstrably wrong here. People ARE joining CSSC. And so far all of the members are joining IN ADDITION to being members of the other existing clubs. So, you might not do so, but others are...

 

You seem to be missing the distinction between (a) what the existing club(s) SHOULD have/offer and ( what the existing club(s) DO offer.

 

Good luck but I think you will find the uptake a bit thin.

 

Not so far. The uptake has been great. But even if the uptake is thin, we don't mind. We're happy doing what we are doing. As Floozie said, if people join us, great. If they don't, that's fine too.

 

For me, the number one benefit of being a member of CSSC is that I am guaranteed never to come back from a day's sailing to be told I am not allowed into the yacht club bar because it is currently hired out for a wedding, and I'll have to go elsewhere (even if it is just upstairs). If that never happens, I will be a happy member.