Snapper Quotas

[waikiore 398]

Hey by all means drop from 9 to 7 and maybe increase the size --however only if the commercial size is raised to the same as us recreational fishers, this is at the heart of the problem, the allowance for the commercial guys to take legally the baby snapper that you buy whole cooked in restaurants. No one seems to want to address this the crucial issue that in Snapper 1 they are still legally catching and selling tiny snapper that no one of us would consider keeping

[philstar 61]

cfishommercial guys need to do other things as well. like larger gaps in nets to allow undersize fish to escape etc etc.

apparently there was a study done in the late 90's that showed that 2 fish die for every one that gets to a plate from a commercial fishing company. funnily enough that study was locked up.

[Dude 0]

Now this is really confusing!

 

Every week there are 3 fishing dudes on TV telling us that the Fishing is "AWESOME". They scream at us at the excitement of catching "HEEPS" of Snapper. And "RAVE" at the delight of Kiwi fishing waters.

 

...

 

? Is that not so? And - when did the Snapper suddenly vanish?

 

There's something very fishy going on here! And I think it involves Commercial lobbying and politicians.

[Guest]

have no probs with current size or catch limits though what I do have a prob with is the fact we are catching our breeding fish as they breed and patting each other on the back for doing so, Suggest sensible thought and practice application with this in mind law wise and an increase in fish stocks can only result

[Chloe 7]

"have a prob with is the fact we are catching our breeding fish as they breed and patting each other on the back for doing so."

 

They problem with the above, is that whenever you catch the fish it won't breed again.

[Guest]

More form the original source:

 

Subject: Fwd: LEGASEA UPDATE: SAVE OUR SNAPPER SUBMISSION PAGE IS LIVE

Date: Fri, 02 Aug 2013 23:00:42 +1200

From: Graham Carter

 

To: undisclosed-recipients:;

 

 

Hi everyone.

 

The submission page for SAVE OUR SNAPPER is live so we're all go. The link is: http://www.legasea.co.nz/sos

 

We need to get as many submissions as we can to the Ministry by 4pm on the 23rd of August. By posting submissions through LegaSea we will have a cohesive message and be able to keep copies of all the submissions made and a count of these to check against Ministry reported submissions. The online submission is able to be edited, so people can change as add things as they wish and add 'additional comments' also. These comments are recorded separately by the Ministry so good to use.

 

Can you please share this information with your databases. Here's the email we have sent out to our own database for your information: http://www.legasea.co.nz/newsletters/newsletter6.htm

 

A Facebook post to share is here, just click on the link to view Save our Snapper Facebook Post

 

 

Over the weekend we will have a video online that is our call to action for online visual sharing. It will be posted on Facebook, so please keep a look out for it as another opportunity to share.

 

We have a page on our website where people can print out SNAPPER ACTION PACKS. This is a face to face written version of the submission that people can download, print and use to gather their own signatures then send back to LegaSea. Not everyone's online. Details are here http://www.legasea.co.nz/actionpack.php#

 

We are also posting out bulk versions of the SNAPPER ACTION PACK today with brochures and posters to over 200 outlets including fishing clubs. If you would like to receive a bulk physical pack next week please email info@legasea.co.nz

 

We have three weeks to get signatures so keep this conversation going, to keep reaching out to more and more people every week is important. So if some of you send this out early next week as opposed to today that's cool (seeing as it's beer o'clock!)

 

 

 

--

Graham Carter, Editor, Fishing and Outdoors newspaper, 021 02600437, PO Box 10580, Te Rapa, Hamilton 3240 Check out the newspaper online at www.fishingoutdoors.org

[Guest]

Another press release, this one has Mike Rose' name on it

 

IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Snapper changes will hit poor hardest says charter operator

People from lower socio-economic groups, Maori and Pacifica will be hardest hit by the Ministry of Primary Industries’ proposed drastic cuts to recreational fishing limits, says leading fishing charter boat operator Andrew Somers.

Mr Somers, whose company, The Red Boats Ltd, takes more people fishing in the Auckland area than any other, says the majority of his clients are from lower socio-economic areas, with about half being Maori and Pacifica.

“Most cannot afford to buy snapper in fish shops or supermarkets and certainly cannot afford to own or run their own boats,” he says. “The only way they and their families can enjoy healthy fresh fish is by catching it on boats like ours.”

Mr Somers says the majority of his clients save up for a fishing trip and use what they catch to feed their families, many of whom are either too old or too infirm to fish for themselves.

“We charge just $65 a person for a day’s fishing and thus are one of, if not the, cheapest in Auckland,” he says. “With a recreational bag limit of 9 (as at present), $65 is a worthwhile investment for these people. Depending on the time of year, they have a good chance of catching somewhere between five and nine fish and being able to feed their families.

“However, if, the proposed changes go through and the most they can catch is just three, it will not be worth their while; anything they catch will be at least as expensive as if they had bought it in a shop.”

The result, he says, will be less healthy food for the people who need it most — and the likely loss of a significant number of jobs.

“The Red Boats employs nine people and we are only one of the many charter fishing companies operating in the Auckland area.

“I do not think the Ministry have thought this through. The effects of their proposed changes will be both widespread and severe,” he warns.

Mr Somers also questions the Ministry’s research methods.

“Over the last two years, MPI has required us to complete trip reports for every fishing charter. However, they did not ask us to record the amount of snapper we caught, or their size.

“They really have no idea of the total recreational catch. Instead of relying on hard data, they are just using guesswork and completely unsubstantiated estimates to demand recreational fishers accept these drastic cuts to their bag limits.”

Mr Somers urged recreational fishers to make submissions on the proposed changes at www.legasea.co.nz/sos before August 23.

[wheels 543]

I don't really know why everyone raves over snapper. There are much nicer fish to be had. Which brings me to my next point. People can target other fish as well. Just having the catch reduced to three doesn't mean they have to go home with just three fish.

[Guest]

methinks the rec fishermen have been finessed

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic ... quota-cuts

[banaari 27]

Disregarding for moment the commercial / recreational split issues, not to mention the appalling QMS-inspired fish dumping:

 

Can somebody tell me how anyone actually needs _NINE_ snapper, per person, per day PLUS the rest?

[Hi Flyer 0]

I think this is a positive step in the right direction. 30cm is a reasonable fillet, and 7 snapper per fisho is more than enough.

[Grinna 2]

It won't affect me at all because we have a self imposed size limit of 30cm anyway and we would very rarely take more than 4 or 5 fish total, let alone per person. We'd usually stop fishing once we'd got 2 decent fish (enough to feed 2 of us for 1 or 2 meals).

 

What disappoints me is that commercial fishing quotas are untouched.

[banaari 27]

From the Herald this morning, http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=11126197 we have the following stunning analysis from one of our recreational brethren:

 

(...) "My greatest fear is they will reduce it to five fish and then three so my daughter won't be able to catch a fish at all."

 

This is presumably the same mentality that opposes marine reserves, despite the fact they'd ultimately benefit fisherfolk.

[ScarecrowR31 8]

Perhaps it is time to recognise the real issue..profit and the politics of resource allocation/management. The commercial sector and recreational are both funding parties to government as well as 'shape shifters' in terms of future voting and the government is responding to these in a political manner rather than truly environmental.

Arguably snapper numbers inshore are a marked improvement since the 1970s and the recreational sector is reasonably happy. Sectors (not all) of the commercial fleet have over exploited ares within SNA1 and are now moving wider within the SNA1 area. They will put pressure on the migratory stocks within their nontraditional areas possibly pushing the longline sector further afield.

The real worry I have is who "owns" a significant sector of the commercial fleet/industry and wether the government is in fact trying to maintain political support while avoiding iwi/treaty conflicts in terms of settlement.

[Guest]

I can walk into Seamart with a hand grenade and still knot get a fish but I know many knowledgeable fishos across all the spectrums.

 

All I've spoken to are saying the raise to 30cm will only mean more dead fish left in the seas.

 

It seems that the, now, majority of 29cm ones or smaller that are caught then handled as they are chucked back will die. Sure they swim away quick but most will die in the next 24hrs. So the more that get thrown back the more will die.

 

Grinna, I know your a specialist in water flows in estuaries and around marinas, a nice person in Sandspit said that but do you know much about Snappers i.e. does the above stack up with what you know, if you do?

[idlerboat 116]

I cant comment on NZs situation.

But I want to give you an example.

My intention is to state that first, the idea that Rec fishers have no impact on fish stocks is rubbish.

The second is that to use old historical data about commerical fishing is also rubbish.

 

Westernport Bay here where I am, used to have massive fish stocks. As both a sea grass bed and huge tidal (open ocean) ground, it was teaming with life.

Its now non existant fishing fleet, plus the degredation of the sea grasses killed the bounty.

It was done with a fraction of the boats that now fish.

Now before someone jumps down my throat and says "but they used nets"...

again....there was a fraction of the boats and second , that is why we now have a NEW and BAD amount of fish stocks.

It is not a reasonable justification to have up to 700 boats, with the latest of technology, all targeting "big fish" on any sunny arvo.

 

It gets worse....

Over and over, the catching of a large and mature fish is trumpeted as a sign of a healthy fish stock !!

This is plain crap.

It just means you have got one of the last ones, by ever increasing surfistication...

 

Its not that most Rec fishers are in denial, its just that they dont know how it should be for a sustainable stock.

 

NOW YOU go and do the reaserch, and you will find that only 10% of the worlds fish stocks are not in complete colapse or decline.

And if you think that your little patch is ammune because your little fishers dont go out past your little boundries.....then you are the problem.

[Guest]

The problem they face with this one Idler is that the area is, ball park, 1/3 of the North Islands East coast and the bit that see's over 1/2 the countries population on the beach next to it. Part of the big problem from what I'm told is in that area there are 3 different bio-masses. Ones been beaten up badly, one is a bit wobbly and the other is booming and so much so the commercial guys are bitching about a plague of snapper.

 

So what does the Govt do, nail the entire lot in one go. There is arguably a case for splitting the area in 1/2 but as that makes sense it's unlikely to happen.

[idlerboat 116]

Hi KM, I do understand.

We are going through a range of changes much like yours. The areas that have been defined have been disputed by just about everyone (including marine biologists).

Now before some bastard takes this last statement out of context....the argy bargy is about boundries....not that there desperatlely needs to be some serious preservation and increase in fish stocks.

 

I have listened to way to many commercial fisherman who state that they wrecked the fish stocks of certain species in the last 30 years off our coast.

They honestly feel guilty, but say that they just didnt understand the habits and numbers.

It was infact a "gold rush"....a few got very wealthy, very quickly, the result is what we have now.

Rember this is VERY recent history.

__________________________________________

 

IT may be possible for some to argue other enviromental indicators and trouble are vague, but that is not the case with fish stocks. It is well known and in deep sh*t. We dont even know if the depleated fish species will come back, because we have changed a balance.

___________________________________________

 

As for "

commercial guys are bitching about a plague of snapper. '

.......?

Undersize snapper ?

Not being rude, but do you know how long it takes for snapper to reach maturity ?

That if they are catching them, and cant keep them then most will mostly die anyway. Bycatch, is still crazy.

Both in long line or purse seiner, or any other method....

Stuff that they cant keep usualy goes back dead.....

[rigger 47]

Changes for the commercial guys

- Retain 100% of catch (excluding those that are protected)

- Require total catch recorded.

- Create system that can use the by catch - no wastage.

- MOST importantly - Limit bycatch - link it to the quota - reach the bycatch limit and you have to stop fishing the quota.

- Dumping by catch - all crew get any marine qual / licence suspended - quota returned to govt - vessel used for dumping is forfeited.

 

 

Result could be that the fishing industry develops better more accurate ways of catching the quota without catching undersized or other non-quota fish.

[Steve Pope 243]

And of course the commercial guys can still legally catch 25cm snapper.