automatic foiling system

[Romany 162]

Does anybody know how this works?

 

I understand it has been acknowledged by measurement committee that it is compliant with the rule regarding stored energy system, but I cannot help but wonder ...

[Pumbaa 9]

It's correct name is Captured Hydraulic Energy Auto Trim device

[Clipper 343]

It's correct name is Captured Hydraulic Energy Auto Trim device

 

 

Classic

[Steve_C 0]

Got that right.....

[Romany 162]

ok so now we know its proper name, how does it work? I reckon the end of the cup should be an automatic entry to the technology vault that each syndicate has. Trickle down would become a torrent...

[w44vi 17]

I believe it is a boeing designed aileron/flap controller

Was intended to keep air craft in flat level flight

[SloopJohnB 323]

Knot shore about the facts but.....

 

http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/09/scutt ... z2fz4f09OH

 

 

Lots of conflicting facts flying going around the world.

[Kiteroa 8]

Similar active systems were used to control ride height on F1 cars. Although they were banned as they were deemed to diminish the required level of driver talent as the car was essentially being driven by an ECU box.

 

This happened about the same time Ferrari stopped winning.

[SloopJohnB 323]

Inbox material this morning.

 

THOUGHTS RE ORACLE'S REMARKABLE PERFORMANCE TURNAROUND.

 

1. It is well recognised that Oracle was having serious foiling stability difficulties at the outset of the regatta and that their performance could not match that of ETNZ.

2. Half way through the series it was acknowledged that Oracle had fitted an automatic control to their hydrofoil trim, and that this modification was approved by the measurement authorities.

3. Since this modification Oracle's performance has almost unbelievably improved. This has been “explained” by skipper Jimmy Spithill as being due to the superhuman efforts of the crew to improve their handling skills. However, in view of the intensive training Oracle were able to do, prior to the regatta, with their highly skilled team partner, it seems unlikely that only now have they discovered the “magic bullet” they they clearly have. It is much more likely to be the result of the modifications, possibly enabled by their surprising decision to use their lay day card and the subsequent lucky postponements.

4. It must be remembered that this is the first time that this contest has been sailed by yachts “flying “ on Hydrofoils and it is probable that new and different criteria should have been applied.

5. In the aeronautical world it has long been known that the stability of swept wing aircraft can rapidly be lost by uncontrolled yaw leading to a dangerous situation known as “Dutch Roll”.

6. A device known as “Little Herbie” was developed during the commissioning of the Boeing 747 Jumbo Jets over 40 years ago, to over come this tendency. Little Herbies, or “Stability Augmentation Systems” (SAS) as these are now designated, are equipped with sensors such as Accelerometers and Gyros which can detect and instigate corrections to stability with a speed and accuracy which exceeds the ability of even experienced airline pilots. They are therefore now installed in virtually all swept-wing aircraft.

7. The “legality” of this device has been justified and accepted on the basis that it does not actually “drive” the trim of the foils.....this is still performed by the muscle power of the crew, via hydraulic linkages. That may be so, but the device, using it's sensing and directives, has been described as “automatic”. This implies that the trim of the foils is determined by what can only be described as “superhuman” technology. If this technology has ben used to overcome the foiling stability difficulties of Oracle it will have enabled the use of higher speed/lower drag foils which the crew would otherwise be unable to manage. This would give a significant speed advantage during foiling. This has been clearly in evidence since the modification. Improvement in stability and speed has been staggering.

8. The high speed/low drag foils do have a downside in light conditions where, due to their lesser lifting characteristic, foiling is difficult or impossible. This was also clearly seen in the abandoned Race #13 when ETNZ were only 4 minutes from the finish, with a lead of over 1000metres..

9. ETNZ appears to have worked within the constraints of accepted yacht racing rules and the special America's Cup 2013 racing Rules to achieve foiling with these craft. This has been at the cost of using foil characteristics and controls which can be successfully managed by a skilled crew while having to make some concession to pure speed.

10. Although there is risk of being derided for being a “poor loser”, or a “bad sport” it can not go un-noticed that Team Oracle have already been penalised for cheating, that previous Defenders have been noted for sailing very close to the wind of rule compliance. The recent outpouring of bluff and arrogance from Jimmy Spithill may well be part of a plan to trail red herrings and to draw the attention off the real technological reason for their quite literally astounding comeback.

11. The question is whether the use of a device which can enhance performance in excess of that achievable by human endeavour should be allowed in a sporting contest?

12. Is this grounds for protest? At least we should all be aware that this is how desperate sporting entertainment has become.

[Guest]

Really good points, SloopJohnB.

 

A couple of extras:

 

SAS (Stability Augmentation Systems) systems have also been around for years on helicopters - most BK 117s (a la the Akld Rescue Helicopter) are so equipped.

 

Application of the system to a foiling cat is, as we now know, entirely new. Sounds pretty clever, except....if the system is controlled to some (or any?) degree from onshore by a guy with a laptop, is that not outside assistance? It is abundantly clear that Ellison and Co will stop at nothing to win. Team Oracle admitted to, and were penalised for, cheating in the AC45's. The Cup has always been a murky contest, and AC34 seems to have raised the bar.

[banaari 27]

I don't buy that assertion about outside control by laptop from shore... sounds just a wee bit too conspiracy theory to me.

 

But what I really don't understand is how an (on-board) gyro- and accelerometer- controlled system ever got past measurement or jury or protest. Anybody?

[Guest]

I don't buy that assertion about outside control by laptop from shore... sounds just a wee bit too conspiracy theory to me.

 

But what I really don't understand is how an (on-board) gyro- and accelerometer- controlled system ever got past measurement or jury or protest. Anybody?

 

Not an assertion - I said "if" And yes, it does sound all a bit "conspiracy" to me, too. But this is the Cup - with a long history of trying every trick in the book

[banaari 27]

Not an assertion - I said "if"

I should have phrased that better, wasn't inferring the assertion was yours

[Clipper 343]

the measuremnt committee signed off on it.

 

If we had done this, we'd have been saying how brilliant we are.

Hula anyone?

Glass boats?

Foiling?

Bowsprits?

 

The yanks were clever enough to slip it in at the last moment so we could not copy, and although we tried one protest we failed.

[Guest]

And don't forget to remember who was 1st to fly a AC72 Clipper.

 

We put OR on the back foot when that infamous photo appeared of ETNZ 4ft above the water. We set the pace just didn't have the huge resources and companies available to us that OR has to take it as far as OR has. When you're a US billionaire you can get US places like Boeing to jump, if we'd knocked on their door they would still be laughing. We simply got out muscled in the coin stakes which lead to an out muscling in the technology stakes. The lads nearly nailed OR while they tried to work out all their technical equipment but missed by one little bizarre postponement card bullshit thing.

 

The AC is just a dodgy circus and has been for decades, one that a lot have spend a lot of time on convincing the public it's a yacht race. It's relevance to what happens on Alk harbour on a Wednesday night is about the same as that of Airbus or NASA i.e. some trickle down of very high tech bits and bobs but otherwise there is bugger all. Actually thinking about it a AC72 is closer to a A380 than it is a yacht anyway.

 

I think if that race yesterday was the end game after spending 1/2 a billion dollars the world has bigger issues than an electric centreboard.

[ScottiE 174]

The lads nearly nailed OR while they tried to work out all their technical equipment but missed by one little bizarre postponement card bullshit thing.

 

Actually, in hindsight, I think the only point where TNZ actually went wrong was agreeing not to race on the 1st rest day.

 

It's always been a design competition first and foremost and therefore always be 'sailed' close to the wind wrt to the rules. Murray got it wrong when he set the low wind race - and admitted as much after. Would we have still won that race had he waited another 15mins? Who knows - now consigned to history. Was it worth it - why has toyota sponsored the team since its inception. We'll find out soon enough if whoever takes over Dalton's role secures Emirates again.

[Island Time 1,235]

What I think was really interesting is that Oracle were not ready for the AC. It very very nearly cost them the series...

 

The adoption of the Little Herbie, if proved legal (and it looks like it) was a stroke of genius. Many of you have said that the AC is a design contest. Well, if its within the rules, a design update won the regatta.

 

Gutted for Dean, Grant and team. It was as close as it gets without winning. A bit more luck and they could have pulled it off a week ago. They put such huge effort and commitment in, and again put NZ on the world stage. I'm proud to be a kiwi!

[Guest]

Just heard a interesting but brief chat with Brad B. He was saying OR was very clever in picking the best to 9 wins rule. Doing it that way OR knew they could lose 8 races while getting up to speed where if it had been a more traditional number of races they would have had to of been at peak speed at the start in R1. He said having been there done that he could see the event was clearly stacked in the defenders favour.

 

Thinking about that it does make perfect and very clever sense. Can't knock OR for knot looking hard at the small details to give themselves the best chance. Good to see that traditional AC technique is alive and well.

[Guest]

the measuremnt committee signed off on it.

 

If we had done this, we'd have been saying how brilliant we are.

Hula anyone?

Glass boats?

Foiling?

Bowsprits?

 

The yanks were clever enough to slip it in at the last moment so we could not copy, and although we tried one protest we failed.

 

Yes, the measurement committee did sign off on it.

 

But measurement committees rely, to a certain extent, upon honesty. Point 85 from the Jury's decision on the AC45/Oracle cheating case is telling.

 

 

"The seriousness of the breaches cannot be understated. The Chairman of the

Measurement Committee when asked how did he feel when he found what had

occurred stated in the hearing 'I felt old, used and stupid ... our trust in the team had

been betrayed, trust had been abused. If we can't deal in an atmosphere of a certain

amount of trust, we simply cannot do our job.'"

 

The above quote from: JURY CASE AC33

JURY NOTICE JN117

Protocol Article 60 and Oracle Team USA

Protecting the Reputation of the America’s Cup

DECISION

[OYSTR 1]

Hmmm, don't like post race litigation, looks like sour grapes. Fair enough if it turns out to be illegal but did ETNZ not know about this during the racing to be able to protest then?

 

http://www.3news.co.nz/Team-New-Zealand-to-take-legal-action-against-Oracle-after-Americas-Cup---reports/tabid/415/articleID/314959/Default.aspx?