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How widespread is Sexism in Sailing?


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What Zoe said and I'll add that maybe the technical side of operating a boat does seem to scare some ladies. We see it at work a bit where some seem quite concerned they'll get the wrong stuff so will ring some bloke to check.

 

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I used to find that frustrating on both sides of the equation. As a generalisation, a new guy would get on the boat and claim to know what he was doing. You'd put him on a winch it turned out he didn't know how to use and watch the tackline fly as soon as the kite filled. A woman would ask how to do it or wait how to be taught and still look for guidance, sometimes being way too hesitant, when you really just wanted them to give it a go.

 

Ha Ha, and the one you want on your boat, is the one who hesitates and asks a question, rather than the know it all who charges forth un informed and keeps stuffing it up !

 

Oh yeah, with you on that all the way my furry 4 pawed friend.

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Jeeezuzzz DT how dare you start a thread like this without alerting me first! What kind of a friend are you??? BB come ON - get moving will you! Clipper hung out the bait, now bust his balls good and proper, I'm sitting here with my beers and chips on the edge of my seat with anticipation!!!

 

Don't make me write something sexist just to get you all started now - you hear! :twisted:

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It's well known people who eat chips, drink beers and sail red boats are.............

 

Damn, don't ya hate it when you get that far and don't know how to finish it? :lol: What's worse, it'll annoy all night now :?

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Guest Brucey

Sexism?

 

The reality of our society with some justification is that we have expectations based apon what we see in front of us.

 

If you see a fekin big prick on a Harley, tats and a patch on his back, you make the assumption that given a chance and provication he will act differently to a Nun.

 

Why? Because that is the most likely scenario.

 

With the fairer sex, for a number of reasons, blokes assume that they have limited experience and or motivation to sail as hard and capably as they do. Why because usually that is the case. Fact, wouldnt be the case amongst the hard womans Volvo crews but usually is the case in most of our experiences. Same for 12 year old kids of any sex, some can do anything but ussually not!

 

Why, and here is the kicker, women are just not naturaly as agressive as men!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

They are less likely to have the desire, the killer instinkt, be prepaired to tale personal risk to achieve something.

 

There are some exceptions, but look at F1 look at Indy, look at the risks young men take in cars, fortunately most females are wired differently. Its just a genetic fact of life.

 

Yes its a generalisation, but look at the stats, equal oportunity but low achievements in high risk areas. I havent said they cant, most just dont want to.

 

 

There that ought to do it. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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What I noticed amongst the people I sailed with was the guys would go 'work family what the hell I want to go sailing' the girls would say 'work family there's no way I can go sailing'. Once they got on the racecourse and mastered the skills they were just as competitive (let's use that word rather than aggressive) than the guys.

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I remember Nicki Bethwaite luffing her brother Julian into the side of an anchored freighter - is that aggressive enough?

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I remember Nicki Bethwaite luffing her brother Julian into the side of an anchored freighter - is that aggressive enough?

 

I'd call it cheating myself.

 

Don't think its killer instinct or agression that makes any difference, its like someone above said - less girls than guys want to do it. I place the blame for any sexism firmly on the shoulders of the women (as a race, not individuals), in that if they don't want to sail, they won't, there will be more men and then they will feel it has become a male dominated sport.

 

You will struggle to find a male sailor who doesn't think there should be more females sailing, and I don't know anyone who would refuse a crew based on their sex rather than their skill (except maybe in the case the spot needs muscle). There certainly are some, just I don't know any.

 

The opportunities are as open for females as males if you want them, but nothing pisses me off then some woman bitching about equality blah blah when it aint my fault, or they are over sensitive.

 

In summary, there is declining sexism in sailing anymore, there are not enough women sailing, there are too many stroppy women sailing (where are the nice ones?)

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Have a look in any Opti fleet if you want female sailors. Probably 30% female? Maybe 40%? Just as agressive as any of the boys, and just as successful as well. I just hope they carry on past their teenage years. It's certainly much better than when I sailed P class, and the yacht club social was a pretty barren hunting ground..... Lucky kids today! :D :D

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I think you have to be a bit scrappy to get in there with the blokes, personally. It goes with the territory.

 

I have definitely been told for longer races that it's 'blokes only' although that was when I was more novice. THey might let me on now.

 

Cornelia Luethi is one of the nice girls that sail... she bought her own boat (FX) and sails with other nice people (mostly female) so you wouldn't come across her unless you knew to look. Huge big ups to her.

 

Then there's somebody like Tony Smith who loves having female crew and gives heaps of completely new sailors a chance - probably hundreds - over the years, including me. I think Tony and his type are the best thing for keelboat crew recruitment - for men and women.

 

The Helly Hansen Sailing 101 for Women clinics were really popular, because they let girls ask the questions they wanted within their comfort zone, before they went out and did it. I'd love to know how many joined a crew as a result and how many are still sailing.

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It is an interesting one to ponder.

 

There seems to be agreement that the issue is more within keelboat sailing, with better representation (and some very good results) coming out of the dinghy classes.

 

One thing that stands out to me about keelboat sailing is that it requires usually one individual to have made an investment of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars (plus the ongoing costs). I would say that certainly in the past, that individual would typically be someone who owns their own business. So in short, they have spent a long time being in charge (or having everything go their own way) both on land and on the water.

 

Some of them are bloody fantastic individuals and have been mentioned on this site - Bill Miller and Wal are two others that come to mind that have a longstanding "open door" policy to prospective crew members, whatever the gender.

 

And others, I would say genuinely try but can't quite rise to the challenge of having all that money at risk and developing a lasting team that will get the boat round the track at the speed that they would hope.

 

And finally there are others who are just complete dicks.

 

I have no doubt that it is more difficult for women in this environment but I would also say that of the boats (or more correctly, the people) I have sailed with, in a reasonable number of cases the prospect of sailing with them long-term did not fully appeal.

 

I have been trying to think of another sport that has the same investment-to-participation characteristics. The only one that I could come up with was motor racing, in which case the only role for most of us would be standing in the pits with a spanner in our hands. :problem:

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The skipper sets the tone on a raceboat. If he is shouty, sexist or whatever elseist the rest of the crew pick up on it. If they don't like it they move on.

The shouty skippers soon dissappear out the back of the fleet because they can't get experienced crew. :thumbup:

The big downside of this is that they are picking up all the people new to the club and/or sailing.

This gives a bad impression to the newbies who think all skippers are dicks and either stop sailing or racing. :thumbdown:

S

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Females are a 'race' of people Clipper. You brave bastard, I've never say that around one even if they are that weird at times I do tend to agree :lol:

 

Out of interest I asked D1 (nearly 15) about sexism last night. She and one of her mates reckon females are going to take over the world and they both seem quite serious about that. They pointed out examples where the rise of the female is quite evident i.e. high political positions in allsorts of places, company boards and so on. So their theory is the female race :) is very much on the ascendancy and that will flow on to more females having a crack at what has often been regarded as more male. They genuinely believe it won't be long before females start taking out big yacht races like the Volvo, AC and the likes. They both boat and have an interest in things boat...... dance, horses and pink (both the muso and the colour)

 

They are putting together a team to race a boat, mine apparently, and they both thought entering a women only series was sexist.

 

They were quite serious, had thought about it and don't regard sexism as a big issue for the female race of their generation.

 

I left that conversion thinking 'Am I really smarter than a 14yo? I'm beginning to swing towards the answer being No'.

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The skipper sets the tone on a raceboat. If he is shouty, sexist or whatever elseist the rest of the crew pick up on it. If they don't like it they move on.

The shouty skippers soon dissappear out the back of the fleet because they can't get experienced crew. :thumbup:

The big downside of this is that they are picking up all the people new to the club and/or sailing.

This gives a bad impression to the newbies who think all skippers are dicks and either stop sailing or racing. :thumbdown:

S

 

 

Good theory, probably a lot of truth in it too.

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Guest Dry Reach
I'm bored - let's start a dogfight.

 

There's no doubt that it exists. On another thread BB complained about it and there have been others. (Remember the customers perception is the reality - if they (females) say so then it is true.)

So how bad is it and what should we be doing about it?

 

Lots of people from YNZ to Dry Reach would like to see more women involved in our sport, but are we shooting ourselves in the foot with antiquated attitudes?

 

 

Very wide spread!

 

the woman in my club will not let any men behind the bar to pour bears, serve food and do the cleaning up!

 

Something to do with drinking the profits?

 

bloody sexist bitches :wink:

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The skipper sets the tone on a raceboat. If he is shouty, sexist or whatever elseist the rest of the crew pick up on it. If they don't like it they move on.

The shouty skippers soon dissappear out the back of the fleet because they can't get experienced crew. :thumbup:

The big downside of this is that they are picking up all the people new to the club and/or sailing.

This gives a bad impression to the newbies who think all skippers are dicks and either stop sailing or racing. :thumbdown:

S

 

 

Good theory, probably a lot of truth in it too.

 

I'd replace your 'probably' with 'definitely'.

No one likes a screamer unless she's hot and naked.

 

Good post Slacko.

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Guest Brucey

Well I'm astounded.

 

Either this is as suspected, justa site read by 8 old men, or if any woman do read it they are too complient or apethetic to raise an argument.

 

Or of couse maybe they conceed that they are less ambitious, agressive, compeditive......... I really thought there would be some opinion on this.

 

In fact I was really looking forward the usual next step in this linear argument, where once you get them to conceed that there is a fundimental behavioural difference between boys and girls.............

 

 

is that nature or nurture? That is, is it burried in the genomes of the cells, or learnt behavior as a result of people always putting dolls in their hands as a baby.

 

What has happened to all the Womans Studies girls (I use the term librily) who would argue this for hours.

 

If there are any shellas out there you should be ashamed of yourselves, wheres the fight gone...... or are you all old and pragmatic from having brought up a boy or two and watched him pick up a dolly and proceed to bash it on the table untill its head comes off?

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I'd replace your 'probably' with 'definitely'.

No one likes a screamer unless she's hot and naked.

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

In the context of this thread KM, it should be "unless she or he is hot and naked".

And KM.... I want my ferkin parrot back! :D

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justa site read by 8 old men,

Heeeyyyyy!!! I really take exception to that.

So should the two women who between them put in the time to respond with five on-topic posts (plus a couple that I took to be banter but may have been serious threats).

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