Vin
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Posts posted by Vin
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Hi all.
Due to this process taking much longer than I originally expected, the budget is slowly creeping up, and I'm able to look at boats up to $30k now, which has opened things up a bit.
It's been a fun few months looking at different boats and starting to get an idea of what's important to me (headroom!). living in Hamilton makes this a little bit difficult so whenever I need to travel to Auckland for work I try and line up a viewing of a likely looking boat (makes the trip a bit more fun too).
I got on-board a Lotus 9.2 last week, which on paper sounded perfect. Very beamy with a good layout and lots of space. Unfortunately, there was very little headroom throughout, and I was crouching half the time! I also didn't fit in the V berth (I'm 6'3). The Lotus would have been great if I was 6 inches shorter.
This Stewart 34 (Paragon) caught my eye recently: https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3574194935?bof=3ZnSqmsN
It seems a bit odd with the aft cabin layout, but having the separation of sleeping and living quarters might be quite nice. Was this a one-off unicorn? Or are there other aft cabin Stewarts floating around. Does anybody know any of the history of this particular example? Any idea on cabin headroom on one of these?
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55 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:
another well worth a look at this price. I have no connection ot it, just looks to fit the profile I described earlier - an orphan representing good value,
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3470350485?bof=VazwFfQX
I've just seen that come up and have enquired about a viewing. Looks like it could be a good option.
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So that John Spencer 39 still hasn't sold.
I've asked about it earlier in the thread, but thought I'd mention it again in case anybody had any additional input.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3456493799?bof=oKXpt8xv
It's looking quite attractive for the price due to the large water tanks, water heater, etc. There's a lot already there that I wouldn't need to do myself to get her comfortable as a liveaboard. Just under 12m as well.
In the ad it mentions a full rebuild in mid 2000s. Is anybody familiar with the yacht and knows what was done for this rebuild? I'd feel a lot more confident in buying a GOP boat if it had (somewhat) recently had any rotten ply replaced and reglassed.
I've also been looking at a couple of Shoalcraft 30s.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3455331354?bof=oKXpt8xv
The lifting centerboard sounds quite appealing for coastal cruising. Hull is GRP with foam core so might provide a little extra insulation for those colder months of the year.
I like the idea of being able to take advantage of shallow moorings, and anchoring close to the beach. They seem very comfortable and beamy too (3.2m!). I'm a little concerned about the motion at anchor with the weight sitting a bit higher.
Any thoughts on the Shoalcraft 30?
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Hmm I'm immediately sceptical of a 26 ft having enough space for two people long-term, but I'll add it to the list. A small boat would be cheaper to keep!
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I'd recommend having a read through the thread I recently made, I'm in a very similar position to you and there's a wealth of advice in there.
Was it the Chico 30 Auriga you almost bought? I was also watching that auction with great intetest.
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15 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:
somewhere we covered the cost of cheap yachts and I did estimates on SO so far (almost two years).
$14k purchase, about $1k on purchase costs (inspection report etc)
Replaced water tanks, new water pump and taps, depth sounder, antifouled (stripped to the sealer coat and refinished with undercoat and 3x antifoul) new sail cover and dodger, minor rot repair in the cabin top, new fridge, added 130w solar, new house battery replacement anchor, recovered squabs, recarpeted, fitted secondary winches, engine out and replaced exhaust mixer elbow and rear main oil seal, fitted LED strip lighting and replaced all other bulbs with LED, new autopilot, minor repairs to anchor winch.
About to replace the diesel lift pump. This winter she will be hauled, antifoul redone and topsides repainted, possibly decks as well if I get excited.
This is not taking it to Zozza's level, just maintenance and a few little improvements. All DIY except the canvas work.
The antifoul was about $600 in materials, haul, four weeks on the hardstand (start of last years lock down...) and probably 5 to 8 days of my labour on and off. We ended up garnet blasting rather than sanding to save effort, that added $800, but was a misquote and should have been closer to $1500. Ended up around $2000 all up, could have been closer to $3k if the sand blasting guy was an asshole. He wasn't.
Canvaswork was about $3k all up.
I'm picking 3k a year in maintenance as a good working value. Anything less and we would be falling behind.
Insurance is about $1k a year, mooring about $2.8k
Coastguard is an insurance cost from my pov, thats another hundy or so.
This is approx what I had down in my budgeting spreadsheet for ongoing annual maintenance costs, good to know I'm not too far off the mark.
3 hours ago, wheels said:There is one very important point I have not seen discussed. We really need to know what the "cruising" part means. If you want to cruise around the World, you need to plan on any low budget purchase right now as nothing more than a stepping stone. The cost and in some cases the ability of getting an old Boat that has never met Cat1 to that standard today, will make the idea near impossible. Anyone looking for Cat1 really needs to be looking for a Boat that has been there, done the journey and returned home again and the owners looking at selling. Then the list and expense of achieving Cat one will only be daunting, not impossible.
For me, with the experience I have, and the budget constraints, cruising means sticking between Bay of Plenty and Bay of Islands (at least for the first year), with a considerable amount of time spent messing about in the Waitemata harbour and Hauraki gulf/GBI while finding my feet (I've been away from sailing for a fair few years now and feeling a bit rusty).
If we end up falling in love with the cruising/liveaboard life and it works with the practical constraints of our jobs, I would definitely consider a bluewater boat for getting up to the islands (and beyond!), but we'd likely be going all in at that point and spending a bit of money on something quite a bit bigger and more comfortable.
So this first boat does not need to be capable of crossing an ocean, it just needs to be safe and comfortable enough for coastal cruising on the northeast coast of the north island.
2 hours ago, Black Panther said:If I were in that position right now I would be buying offshore.
I did have a quick look at the possibility of buying something in central America (Panama!) and cruising the Caribbean, but with the COVID situation and constantly changing visa requirements, it all became too difficult. Maybe if we get to the stage of committing to the liveaboard cruising life and want a capable bluewater boat we could revisit the idea, but I don't think it's on the cards at the moment.
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9 minutes ago, Zozza said:
Not you?
Naw, I set my limit at 8, hoping for a bargain haha. Too much risk buying sight unseen at any price over that (for me at least!)
Probably still a bargain for the new owner though.
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4 hours ago, harrytom said:
Be interesting to see final sale price. There appears to be water leak in the head,coaming looks wet and going black so could be the start of a minor proplem.
$13100 final price.
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2 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:
for an inner gulf liveaboard, yeah.
You could get away with it for a year, but not longer.
She has had money spent, but on fixtures and fittings. She really needs 6 weeks on a hardstand and a full strip and refinish. I really like her lines but she is looking very tired.But that leads me to questions on the rest of the yacht. I don't think my refurb budget estimate would be far off.
All imo, and only from observations in passing. She is getting used and was out last weekend.
This is quite an interesting discussion point I think.
In my experience with house/motorcycle restorations, there are miles between 'good enough' and 'perfect'.
I realise it's a bit different with a sailing vessel, as things break more often, and when they do, it can pose a significant safety issue (shrouds/stays snapping, seakcocks failing, etc).
Using Auriga as an example here, if the hull and the standing rigging are sound, and all that is wrong is a bit of rot in the plywood decks around fittings, it may be possible to get her 'good enough' for a few thousand dollars if you're willing to live with some cosmetic imperfections.Hmm.
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34 minutes ago, Zozza said:
Btw to the OP, here is your 30 foot boat that you can live on and sail the world if you want.
Auction ends tonight.In fact, I am tempted to bid myself at the current bid of only $5K odd! It will probably end up selling for $10K, leaving $10K in your pocket. The Chico 30 is a heck of a good design. Long waterline, transom hung rudder, built by a well respected boat builder, and on this one the teak decks have been wisely removed.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3438790843?bof=ZOpmVooiGo for it.
Yep I've got that one on my watchlist and a reminder in my calendar one hour before auction ends. Might end up being a bit of a bargain!
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34 minutes ago, Zozza said:
Btw to the OP, here is your 30 foot boat that you can live on and sail the world if you want.
Auction ends tonight.In fact, I am tempted to bid myself at the current bid of only $5K odd! It will probably end up selling for $10K, leaving $10K in your pocket. The Chico 30 is a heck of a good design. Long waterline, transom hung rudder, built by a well respected boat builder, and on this one the teak decks have been wisely removed.
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3438790843?bof=ZOpmVooiGo for it.
Yep I've got that one on my watchlist and a reminder in my calendar one hour before auction ends. Might end up being a bit of a bargain!
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1 hour ago, khayyam said:
~$6k?
😬 I think maybe jerry cans will do just fine.
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8 minutes ago, Black Panther said:
It's been done, add a rain catchment system and all good
I reckon a small 12v water maker would be the go on a small liveabord with a decent solar array. Might not be able to provide an adequate supply indefinitely, but would certainly extend your cruising range.
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3 minutes ago, Black Panther said:
In your price range just skip insurance.
I've never paid for a survey, on my 4th big boat now.
Is insurance required for using Marina services (for example: fuel dock). What about swing moorings?
I imagine it'd just be 3rd party required in case I accidentally ding someone's gin palace? -
6 hours ago, harrytom said:
Before parting with any $$$ see whether or not .you can get insurance. The way insurance companies operate with old vessels now. Most insist on survey, so a friendly boatbuilder comes in to play, where you are mooring or marina/piles or just on anchor. They all have varying rates. Some crippling and some silly exclusion clauses.
After having several yachts of varying sizes, sub 20k we are slowly saving for the over 40k market to eliminate those replacement issues.
Another thing to consider
I'll ring around when I have something under serious consideration.
3 hours ago, Frank said:A Bicycle mechanic once said to me a bike is a frame and a collection of parts, the quality and condition of the parts defines the bike and the riding experience. Its an oversimplification of course but it also applies to boats. ie if the mast, rigging, sails, electrics and engine are worn out then all you have is a floating liability that will endlessly frustrate you and your partner, probably wont do much for the relationship either. Other commentators here are right, borrow the money if you have to and get a vessel that suits your needs,if you can't afford the loan then you might have to reconsider if you can afford the venture ? A rough rule of thumb that I have heard of is that opex for a boat is about 10% of capex , e.g a 30K boat will cost about 3K per season to maintain. I have a Carpenter 29 (not for sale) I worked it out once and it seemed about right , its on a swing mooring but that figure would go up if you are thinking of a marina. If you are not particularly handy or dont have the time I would recommend a vessel with a GRP hull and decks. My recent experience is that you won't get insurance without a survey that is less than 2 yrs old and you will likely pay 1200 to 2K for a that not including haul out fees for the hull inspection. This will usually exclude the rigging and certainly the engine for which you will need a other experts. In my policy they wont cover a demasting if the rigging is more than 10 years old, an engine survey is a must IMHO.
Jesus, 1200 - 2k for a survey?! I knew we'd had a bad year for inflation but that is crazy! Makes buying something that's had a recent survey a bit more appealing.
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10 hours ago, Psyche said:
Good boats in their day but It is VERY easy to spend 20k on boat maintenance and wonder where it went. If you could stretch to something like this Matangi, it would be an excellent liveaboard
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3427370570?bof=7vQiLzKA
This is like a mini apartment. I showed my wife and she loved it.
Looks well kept for a steel hull. Where's all the rust!? -
7 minutes ago, Island Time said:
Bigger and more comfortable does not mean less maintenance. Quite the opposite!
Hah! Now I am back to looking at H28s and Cav 32s.
But in all seriousness, I think it might be time to go and have a chat to the bank to see about upping the $ range to open up some more options. -
8 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:
Disclosure: We own a 10m Spencer, and Mrs Aardvark's family built three of them in the 1960s going from 25 foot to 45 foot in the process. The later yachts cruised and raced locally and internationally.
ANY yacht in your budget will need maintenance, and the Ply construction of a Spencer is now different. Upside is that ply is easy to repair (comparatively), and the construction methods were simple and repeated across the range of designs John drew/built - this means a surveyor has no difficulty in identifying any potential problems.
That's interesting info. The price on that Spencer does look a little too good to be true for the amount of boat, which makes me wonder why it's so cheap. I've read manty horror stories of glass over ply construction, but have also read that when constructed with care and maintained to prevent water ingress they're as strong as anything else.
The size and layout look ideal for liveabord coastal cruising, not too big to manage with just the two of us, and not too small to feel cramped all the time.7 hours ago, khayyam said:What does a survey cost these days? Wondering if it's worth doing on a 10k boat.
Whenever I see an ad for a cheap H28 that has 'issues' this is what goes through my mind.
7 hours ago, Psyche said:It also depends on your age- sub 25 you can live in a Hartley 16 with your girlfriend and dog but post 60 you're probably going to need a bit more room. The best advice I can offer is look at the numbers.
2 Bedroom unit in AK is about 500 per week (minimum) call that in round figures 25k per year dead money- poof gone! Everyone needs to pay rent or mortgage so its all about how to spend it.
If you are in a position to borrow say 100,000 even at 10% if you buy well, at the end of a year you're ahead because you are not spending like you would ashore. Assume depreciation is minimal because you are at residual value you'll sell for not much less.
Upside is that you're on a larger boat that gives a lot more livability and range for the cost of a flat in the big smoke. I know thats a bit optimistic but if I were to look at boats I would be buying the best example i could afford to finance. You do not want to work on boats if you can help it, its so much better to get one that someone else has spent the time and money on.
We're both mid 30s and have lived in small spaces together before (single room apartments in east Asia) so we're pretty good at putting up with each other. But in saying that, more space is always a good thing, especially when we're both working during the day. I've been seeing a bit of advice that stretching the budget as much as possible is a very good idea, so I'll definitely take that into consideration and see if we can manage to spend a little more to get something better maintained and larger.
7 hours ago, chariot said:Cheap boats don't usually end up being cheap boats. Agree, buy the best you can afford.
Noted.
4 hours ago, waikiore said:She is its scirocco , just check her out end on, my partner sailed on her as a kid, and a friend bought her 20 years ago and sold the mooring for twice as much as the whole deal, but that was prior to a professional boatbuilder completely rebuilding her and expanding and modernising her.
I've asked a question on the trademe auction about this, but do you now what was involved in her rebuild and modernisation? Extensive hull work? Any relgassing of cabin top etc?
3 hours ago, Vivaldi said:Carpenter 29 is another boat in that range worth looking at. Great boats and roomy for their length
Will take a look, thanks.
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40 minutes ago, harrytom said:
"Vin" what is your definition of liveaboard?? a place to live in a river on piles while still attending full time work or liveaboard and go cruising without the worry of work??
If its just afloating apartment then no real attention required to sails,rig,etc but if cruising as a lifestyle with a budget of $20k limited choices really h28 d28 , they would have adequate sails and motor and a resonable motor,but sorry if this is going to upset you but really need $40k + with all the work done is probably where you are looking at,no or limited income why spend it on motor rebuilds/sails etc when you can buy a going concern,move on and be happy knowing for the next 4/5 yrs antifoul ,motor service
This is what I am trying to figure out at the moment (hence asking wiser more experienced folks such as yourself).
My definition of a liveabord is full-time cruising spending 90% of time at anchor in beautiful bays while working remotely from a laptop 4 days a week (4g reception around coastal NZ seems good enough to allow this). Of course we'd need to have a good solar power solution for 2 x laptops + fridge, and enough water storage to support a few weeks away from a marina.Which in turn means that I need to look at slightly larger boats with slightly larger tanks and more space for solar panels and batteries. I'm beginning to think that 28 - 30 ft might be a little small, but as we go up in size the price goes up very rapidly. I think that I could find a nice sound H28 for $10k - $20k but a nice sound Stewart 34 (for example) is going to run $30k - $40k.
It's a bit of a conundrum. Go small and go now, or wait until we can get something bigger, more comfortable, that requires less maintenance, and spend the next year or two wishing we were on the water.
I was trying to hit the sweet spot in the middle with the likes of an H28, but I'm questioning myself now (which is a good thing, and the reason for making this thread!)
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18 hours ago, chariot said:
Very hard to get a good Chico, Cav32 or Lotus 9.2 for $20k
Yeah I'm seeing that the examples around 20k are generally going to need a bit of TLC. I'm reasonably handy, can do a bit of fiber-glassing and painting if need be, but I don't have much experience with diesel engines (yet) so having a reliable engine with a good service history is pretty important.
14 hours ago, whitepointer said:Maybe a motor sailer like a gladden , for live aboard you need good sized fresh water tankage, good electrical/ battery capacity, and heating for winter, very hard to find in a small cheap yacht, but hey, could be a deal around somewhere
Battery bank isn't too much of an issue as I'd likely be upgrading it anyway with a solar fitout to support working remotely, but I imagine water capacity would be the thing that would become the most frustrating while cruising. I wouldn't want to have to store a bunch of 20L bottles everywhere just to have enough water for a month!
14 hours ago, Black Panther said:Two of us lived on a cav 32 for 8 years. Think we had 50 gallons of water. Electrical system was practically non existent, had a bulkhead mounted heater got us through a winter in Vancouver .
The Cav 32 does seem to be a good compromise between price, space, and speed. There's one in Whitianga at the moment for under 20k, but there might be a reason it's under 20k...
12 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:look for unloved or idiosyncratic yachts. Case in point:
https://www.trademe.co.nz/a/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/listing/3436430999?bof=QOOpYPx3This is on my watchlist! I'm apprehensive about going up in size too much due to skyrocketing maintenance costs, but having the extra space that 39ft provides would be very very nice. I'm happy to cruise with tired sails for awhile, and the 350L water capacity and water heater would be pretty great.
Does anybody know anything about this yacht, or have anything to say about a John Spencer 39ft? Things to look out for?
Engine is a 30hp Vetus 4 cylinder diesel, any comments on reliability/parts availability? -
Hi Kevin,
An Easterly 30 is a boat I hadn't considered yet but looks like it might be a good option. Nice wide beam, but the cabin is a little lower than the H28. I think that the extra width would be more beneficial for two people working on laptops on the cabin. The balsa core might be good on a liveboard for a little extra insulation.
I'd be keen to come and take a look and would be interested in seeing more details on the boat (engine condition/hours, equipment on board etc), and an approximate price you'd be looking at.
I'm based in Hamilton but come up to Auckland for work every month or so (assuming you're based in Auckland!)
Thanks,
Vin.
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Hi all,
My wife and I are tentatively looking at committing to a year of liveaboard cruising sometime in the near future.
We both love adventuring, and the lack of international travel options over the past two years has hit us pretty hard. We're thinking that life aboard might be a good way to scratch that itch without leaving New Zealand.I've grown up sailing Waitemata/Hauraki gulf region with trips to Great Barrier etc, but have been away from the sailing community for around five years now.
My wife likes sailing, but is fairly new to it all, and while we have lived in VERY small apartments together overseas, she's never spent an extended time aboard a yacht (in saying that, the longest I've done is only about 7 days).
We don't have a heck of a lot of money to spend outright ($10k - $20k), and so far we've been mainly looking at Compass H28s as they seem to be a lot of boat for the money (GRP, decent headroom, etc). One thing I am slightly concerned about, is that the H28 might be a wee bit small, and something 6 ft longer and a bit wider is going be a lot nicer for long term living. Having a little extra space for solar would be useful too, as we will need to power a couple of laptops during the day.Other boats aside from the H28 I've been looking at that come in at the right price point and size are:
- Cavalier 32
- Chico 30
- Atkinson 34
- Jim Young 34
- Lotus 9.2 (probably hard to get a well kept one for $20k)
- Townson 30/34 (usually a bit pricier than $20k)
So my question is: What suggestions do you have for yachts 30 - 40 foot (ideally under $20k) that you think would be good as a long-term liveaboard for a couple who will be working remotely?
Also, if anybody is selling anything that they think would suit, I'd love to come and have a look around inside to get a feel for different designs. I'm a lot more concerned about the interior layout and comfort than sailing performance.
Thanks! -
Brilliant! Glad it worked out for them.
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I used to read on a tablet, but it really messed with my vision. I got horrible eye strain looking at the bright screen for that long. I bought a kindle paperwhite (backlit one) and it's been fantastic. Much easier on the eyes than a traditional LCD screen, and battery life is an order of magnitude better than what you'd get on any tablet.
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Sam Holmes Sailing Controversies
in MarineTalk
Posted
Check out Sailorama on YouTube, a couple of very resourceful young sailors with little in the way of money who are slowly restoring their free boat while sailing around Mexico/Caribbean. They haven't had a working engine in quite a long time, but haven't let that stop them!