K4309
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Posts posted by K4309
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Predictwind has all the model validation data available.
The validation tab is under 'forecasts'.
This quantifies which model is most accurate against observations. This way you don't need to listen to old wives tails about which model is most accurate.
That, and what Bad Kitty says. For me, the whole point of PW is 6 models side by side, if they all agree, you have high confidence in the forecast, if they all say something different, role the dice. Every other site (Metservice, windy etc) only use one model. Each model is sometimes good, sometimes not depending on the situation etc. The trick is knowing which ones are good on any given day, hence viewing 6 on the same page and getting a handle on uncertainty very quickly.
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Fluffy could be over zincing with cathodic protection. It strips something out of the wood (Lignund?) leaving just the cellulose wood fibres - note, my terms might not be right, but the effect is the same. Excessive cathodic protection on wood is a thing.
We have a double diagonal kauri boat of similar vintage and had a spot of this. We've dealt with rot as well, including replacement of large parts of the ply deck, after we removed the teak overlay.
Either way, you need to take it out. On how to take it out, that is really up to you. Ours was in the keelson, so we could get at it to physically remove it. Chisel. Make sure it is very sharp, and go across / along the hull, not down, so you don't juncture it. You can possibly use a small reciprocating saw, or a dremel (very small hand held spinning tool, like a dentist drill, but for DIY / wood working).
All you need to do is get back to sound wood. It is a bit like unravelling a sweater, you don't know how far you need to go back until just after you have done it. You can work this out by tapping though, refer below comments. Once you have sound wood, then you need to scarf in new wood. This is just a case of trimming / cutting wood to size and using sufficient epoxy resin for a solid bond.
It is a good idea to use Everdure on your wood, esp if you think it is rot. You apply maybe 3 coats, the first thinned alot, the next not so thinned etc. The everdure penetrates the wood, displaces moisture then cures like epoxy. It is the best (and only) way to remove / prevent / treat rot in boats like this. Future proofs for future leaky windows. Using everdure helps with regular epoxy bonding as well.
The bits we have dealt with have been small / discrete spots, and easy to access for removal by cutting and scarfing. If you have planks in the double diagonal gone, that is beyond my experience too. First step would be to clean it out with chisels and what-not to determine the extent of the issue. If it is a major, then you'll have to work out what to do then. Possible strip the exterior hull and re-plank and then re-glass and paint. That would be a major ball ache. If it is that far gone, you may need professional help, or ditch the project - but don't jump the gun, you need to establish the extent of the problem before talk like that.
If you have soft spots, with experience you can work out where they are by tapping, either inside or outside the hull. You need to listen to the sound. Dull is bad. "in tune" - loud is good. My father does this and uses the handle end of a big old screw driver. Surveyors do this religiously. I think they use a special round-ended hammer. Any tool that isn't going to scratch the surface but is solid is ideal. You can just use your knuckles, but they get a bit sore if you do very much of it.
If you are getting worried the whole thing may be terminal, it would pay to ask a surveyor to tap over the hull and get a feel for the extent of the issue, and if it is fixable he would probably also find all the other soft spots for you.
Hope that helps.
PS, hope you aren't in the water when you start poking around in soft wood with a chisel. If you are, be gentle
PPS fresh water in the bilge is bad. Salt water is much better. A dry bilge is best of course. I can't actually remember why, I think it is that the salt acts as a bit of a preservative, while fresh water doesn't, and strips away natural oils etc in the kauri.
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10 hours ago, saltmonster said:
Awesome thanks for the response. I’m now wondering when to rip out the long board and for generally how long? (I understand every paint product and boats requires different amount of time and effort)
Never used a long board.
I think they are for new builds when you need to get massive humps and hollows fair. If your boat is basically fair, and you sand it back, then you shouldn't need any longboarding.
Noting that when you use that blue guide coat you'll get a handle on it. I'd expect touch ups rather than bulk fairing.
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We did what you are describing on our own boat. Prep'ed it and got a pro in to do the top coat. Brush finished, which is good for 2-5m, as opposed to a spray finish which is good at 0.5-1m, but costs much more (if done within OSH rules).
Get a big random orbital sander. Start with 40 grit to strip everything back. Don't skimp on the sander. I've seen guys trying to use 'lady' sanders, it was hopeless. Loaned them ours and they were all smiles.
I can't remember the details on layers etc, as it was about 12 years ago, but follow the directions on the tin. Seriously, I'm not trying to be a smart arse. Read the tech spec's for what you are using, understand them, and follow it. We used the International system, so while I might have the names slightly wrong the products are still available and the same. All two pot. Some sort of undercoat, possibly Interprotect (we def used that below the water line) or possibly YRA 'number-number'.
We used a guide coat for sanding between layers, esp undercoat to to coat. It's like a blue stain. You sand it off till there is no blue, shows the dips and dings up super well.
We would have used the International top coat 2 pot. Possibly called toplack?
Sean Rowe was the boat painter we used. He is mobile and very good. That was 12 years ago now so no idea if what he is doing now. There was two of them, one brushing on, one tipping off. Looked mint.
PS I'm not saying the International products are best, it's just what we used and understand. And they have established track record. It sounds like there are some very good automotive paints at a fraction of the price that are just as good. There is of course the whole question of single pot or two pot, and I get mixed up but fancy new technologies around now too.
PPS a proper scaffolding set up is worth it's weight in gold too. Not just for osh ladeda (if you break your arse falling off a ladder, you will never finish your project), but it's loads faster being at the right height to do the job, elbows below shoulders is soo much easier, and you just walk along getting the job done.
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1 hour ago, motorb said:
It's also a weird name....
I wonder how they got around not getting 'gifted' a name by Ngati Orakei. I guess if they aren't creating any lanes or roads that need to be registered with LINZ(?) then they avoid all the rules on only naming new things in Te Reo.
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2 hours ago, Psyche said:
I'm guessing the helm is wearing one as protection from spray and wind since nobody else has one.
The point is that the Volvo carry helmets and use them when they feel the need.
We went down that path cause HT said the Volvo wouldn't be able to stop in Auckland if YNZ mandated wearing helmets. Just pointing out that arguement is nonsense.
If you have a look around, keelboat racing is the only sailing sport that doesn't use helmets now. Dinghies, Volvo, America's Cup, Wind/Wing-foiling, kiting all use helmets. Keelboat racing is the odd one out.
Extending HT's point that if helmets are mandated it will be the death of sailing. I'd argue that if keelboat sailing is so slow and pedestrian that you don't need a helmet everyone is getting bored with it and getting into faster, easier and more exciting sports, that also happen to need a helmet. You can get a windfoil set up for less than the cost of a new mainsail, which enables a load more excitement and satisfaction with a fraction of the rules, overheads and ball-ache. That will be what leads to the death of sailing.
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2 hours ago, Clipper said:
In summary, lessons from the wise K4309:
HT is ignorant
i speak nonsense
Boats should all have booms higher than carpe diems head (dont worry about the square metres of sail area being lost)
Good to see you can form a cohesive and compelling arguement, focusing on the topic at hand, using facts and examples to support your point.
Just having a pop at the poster makes it look like you have nothing worth saying.
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Helmet on a Volvo boat.
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12 minutes ago, Addem said:
Whole doing work.on deck at 25 knots in the southern ocean.
Absolutely.
A fully barred up Open 60 is a completely different proposition to the average Gulf Racer / Cruiser, but that isn't what HT said.
He said the Volvo race wouldn't be able to stop in Auckland if YNZ passed a rule requiring wearing of helmets. The ignorance is that the Volvo guys can do risk assessments properly, have worked out they can't do 700nm a day if they are concussed, and more to the point, if they are trying to do 700nm/day, there is a reasonable chance they will get thrown around enough to need a helmet. And the fact they are already carrying and using helmets.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for mandates for helmets. It's just the reasons and examples not to even think about helmets in this thread are twaddlebollocks.
I haven't seen anyone mention the prospect of new rules around helmets, but clearly there is a great deal of apprehension around the topic. I can only assume people are pre-empting outcomes of investigations around the tragedy in the Coastal?
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7 hours ago, harrytom said:
Oh look there's a bus ,where's my helmet?
If YNZ/OSH/ACC ever brought wearing of helmets in on yachts,that will tyhe end of yacht racing in NZ.Now what happens if the volvo fleet stop in over in Auckland?Sorry no helmets keep going?
The ignorance is high with this one.
The Volvo fleet carry helmets and wear them often.
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3 hours ago, Psyche said:
Like a chainsaw?
This shows a good level of ignorance.
With the Ross boom, it is very easy to remove the risk. i.e. by lowering the cockpit floor a bit. Lowers centre of gravity and everyone is happy. Or, heaven forbid, just shortening the mainsail luff. The fact that so many other race boats can work it out demonstrates it is not hard. Far easier to do it at the design stage, hence the name, 'safety in design'.
With chainsaws, we have found it is really hard to cut firewood with a butter knife. i.e. there is no way even get close to getting the job done without having an exposed chain on a bar. Hence using a chainsaw requires several layers of other controls. Actually thinking about what you are doing. Training. Oh and a sh*t tonne of PPE. This is why every chainsaw has a picture of someone cutting their leg off on it, and a few pictures depicting kick-back and the need to wear a helmet...
The point being that good design removes risks that can easily be removed. If you can't remove the risk, then you need a couple of layers of risk management. The corollary of that is that Ross boat sailors need to be walking around in full body armour with NASCAR spec'ed helmets.
Thanks for the useful example
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6 hours ago, Addem said:
I recently sailed on a Ross 35 and was astonished how low the boom sits with the sail raised. Easily at shoulder height when standing on tbe cockpit sole (im not supe r tall) . Is this normal for these boats? Are they reliant on the spring vang to pop it up in the gybe? Or has someone made a longer leech in the main ?
In modern parlance, this would be a 'safety in design' issue.
It's not good to design or build something with an inherent risk of serious injury from normal use.
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4 hours ago, Zozza said:
I played rugby league, and it is the toughest game on the planet as far as the toll it takes on your body, and your head area is one of the main areas of the body that is vulnerable. I got knocked out a few times quite severely, and had to give the game away due to lower back and hamstring injuries at the young age of 20 -- looking back I now count myself lucky as I had that kamikaze attitude on field where I took a masochistic joy in smashing 18 stone players in tackles.
I am still not sure though that helmets on boats are good ideas when I think the underlying issue is the way the rigs are being set up on some boats.
Anyway, good to have a civil discourse on this obviously important part of sailing.Cheers
I am definitely not advocating any rule changes or compulsion to wear helmets. Rules don't make you safer, assessing the risks and managing them yourself makes you safer.
It's more that I've been sailing for maybe 35 years and it never occurred to me to carry a helmet on the boat. Now these deaths and serious injuries are coming to light, it made me ask the question "should I?"
It is more about the inertia in change of thought and view of these things.
I wear a helmet wind-foiling and never thought anything of it. When I first saw kids in Open Bics with helmets I thought it was it was batshitcrazy OSH overreach. Now I understand the implications of head injuries (and have kids of my own), I think it is a good idea to normalise wearing helmets.
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Sometimes, what we used to think was perfectly normal behaviour, or infact behaviour to be proud of and celebrated, sometimes that turns out to be really feckin bad for you. But it takes time to understand that what you are doing is stupid.
Before rugby league cracked down on the kamikaze tackles and high shots, a little Bulldogs player was making his name as the second coming of David “Cement” Gillespie.
Kyle “Killer” White was built like a halfback, but no one dared tell him to play like one. It didn’t matter what number was on his back, he would hunt down some of the game’s most feared forwards.
In just his 11th top-grade game for the Bulldogs in 1990 at Belmore, he sprinted out of the defensive line, launched through the air and crashed into Raiders legend Dean Lance, who was the cornerstone of a star-studded team which included names like Meninga, Stuart, Lazarus and Belcher.
If that tackle had happened today, White would be lucky to play again this season. Back then, it meant instant ascension to cult hero status.
“That’s one of the biggest hits I’ve ever seen on a football paddock,” the commentator at the time says. “Have a look at the truck that just hit him.”
The truck was White.
For years afterwards – with Western Suburbs, Illawarra and later Widnes and Workington Town in England – White would play with the same fearlessness in a top-grade career which spanned a decade.
Now, nine months after his death at just 53, it can be revealed White died with the degenerative brain disease chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), which is linked to repeated head trauma.
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20 hours ago, Psyche said:
This^^
The injuries that Ive have heard about or experienced have all been due to the sheet and not the boom.
It doesn't actually matter what causes the head injury, it's still a head injury.
I'm fascinated by the resistance to even the thought of wearing a helmet by some. Many other aspects of wind-powered water sports require helmets now. The most obvious being kids dinghy racing, but all the wind & wing foiling, kiting and high speed sailing boats.
Modern helmets are comfortable and great. We aren't talking construction hard hats with a single chin strap. They are light, easily adjusted and well fitting. I have one for wind foiling that is incredibly comfortable. Not far off wearing a sunhat.
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4 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:
I have witnessed four people who have been hit by a boom, nothing serious but enough of a bang to have them on the deck holding their head and pretty much out of action. One had on going problems which took around 24 months to fully recover from...
Three of these incidents were the helms person. Each one on a different boat.
Over the years I have also taken a couple of taps to the head while helming Carpe Diem, these have been during tacks, never in a gybe.
So definitely not a nonsense statement.
OK so based on your anecdotal evidence that 75% of boom injuries are helmsmen, my above statement is wrong. Fair enough.
My statement was in response to Clipper saying that to get a helmsperson to put on a helmet is an exceedingly dangerous distraction. I still maintain that statement is nonsense. Unless you are solo, there is someone to swap with while putting on said helmet. In Clipper's world, does the helmsman not clip on because it's too much of a distraction? Do they not wear lifejackets cause it's too much of a distraction? This statement is clearly a nonsense.
But, what I'm wanting to ask CD, if you have personally seen 4 head injuries, and I'd say one taking 2 years to recover from is very serious, do you think carrying helmets onboard is a good idea? And possibly even wearing them on occasion?
Or do you guys like banging you head against brick walls, getting a headache but hope for a different outcome?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for compulsory wearing of helmets like in ALL of the kids dinghy classes. I'm just suggesting that if there are so many head injuries and some fatalities, is it not logical to carry helmets?
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3 hours ago, Clipper said:
Id argue that is situations where a crash gybe is a possibility, a helmsman putting on a helmet is more likely to cause one.
That is a nonsense statement. The helmsman isn't the one that gets hit by the boom, it's all the other crew. Usually a trimmer standing up.
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2 hours ago, Psyche said:
This is a good discussion, plenty of people have had hits by the boom but I would not support helmets being made compulsory for keelboats but I can understand why it should be mandated be in certain events/age groups and classes. Thinking back to my boom interactions (and another skippers recent hit where he fractured a neck vertebrae), its not the boom itself but the mainsheet that's got me a couple of times and a helmet wouldn't have helped as I was struck on the neck.
Helmets don't need to be compulsory, but who actually carries one or two on a keeler?
Now we are aware of the risk of the boom and consequence of head-knocks, it is only logical to give some thought to mitigating that risk. The obvious is behaviour (keeping your head down), but having a helmet onboard gives you the opportunity to put one on when conditions are getting hairy. Maybe deep running in the dark in a nasty sea-way.
That and for particular jobs like climbing the mast underway.
We are required to carry lifejackets and have the responsibility to work out when to put them on, at times of heightened risk etc. We are getting injuries and fatalities from head knocks, the logical extension is to start carrying helmets onboard, and put them on at times of heightened risk. I'd argue if you are racing and in a situation where you can crash gybe, helmets should be considered.
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9 minutes ago, Addem said:
Bad stuff still happens. Essence is a recent example. It's the sea state that is still unpredictable.
I think the big difference is between mass-casualty events and individual boat events.
You can never say never, but I would posit that the risk / probability of a major mass casualty event is markedly reduced due to modern weather forecasting and current safety standards, crew training and boat construction standards etc.
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12 hours ago, Black Panther said:
In 1979 the fastnet
In 1979, it was the climax of the five-race Admiral's Cup competition, as it had been since 1957. A worse-than-expected storm on the third day of the race wreaked havoc on the 303 yachts that started the biennial race, resulting in 19 fatalities (15 yachtsmen and four spectators).
In 1998 the sy Hobart
To answer your question, I'll tell a little tail:
I raced in the 2007 Fastnet. I was navigator so attended the safety briefing with the skipper. The weather situation and weather map was identical to the 1979 weather map. There was a weather map of the '79 event inside the front cover of the book "Fastnet Force 10". They put the '07 weather map up on a screen in the briefing and the hairs stood up on the back of my neck - very freaky.
The start was delayed by 25 hours. 1 day plus 1 hour to match the tide through the Needles Channel. At the time it was glassy calm and smoking hot, so much consternation amongst the fleet.
At race start the wind was starting to build. Basically shat out by the time the fleet was at the Needles. Wind continued to build in the English Channel from the west, so right on the nose. Very steep sea state built. Boats started having trouble all along the English coast.
Our liferaft had a hydrostatic activator on it. It was mounted at the stern. We were taking so much water over the boat that the liferaft self deployed. I was driving, but couldn't slow the boat fast enough. The painter parted and we lost the liferaft. Several nearby boats saw our liferaft deploy and issued mayday relays, which was embarrassing as f*ck. Because we then did not comply with the safety regulations (by not having a liferaft) we were obliged to retire.
Of the 330 boats that started, I think about 30 ish finished. All boats that retired did so in the English Channel and could get into ports in England or France easily. The boats that did make it into the Irish sea finished, and collect armfuls of silverware.
Given the weather system was identical to the '79 event, the fundamental difference was delaying the start, so all boats got nailed in the English Channel and could get to port. That was bought about by vastly improved weather forecasting between '79 and '07. There were also multiple layers of improved safety requirements, crew training, boat inspections and qualifying races. These were all learning points from the '79 tragedy.
So in that example, a repeat of '79 was avoided due to learning points from '79 and improved weather forecasting. Brought about no doubt by 1,000's of weather satellites we have now that didn't exist back then.
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40 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:
Its primary mechanism of reproduction is asexual, which is caused by fragmentation. Sexual reproduction causes the Caulerpa plant to die completely. The plant has to be already on its way out for it to initiate sexual reproduction. Our Caulerpa is young healthy vibrant...
Anchors fragment the plant. Fragments as small as 1cm can be a viable plant, carried by the currents or carried in anchor wells long distances.
If it was being spread easily by currents then the east Auckland current would spread it all the way down the east coast of the north island to the Chatham rise.
Has anyone looked on the Chatham rise yet? Doesn't mean it's not there.
Took between 2 and 5 years to be discovered on Barrier. Was there all along.
Has spread to Waiheke and Kawau, Iris shoal. Not a lot of boats anchor on Iris Shoal. Most boats anchor in Bon Accord, hasn't been found there...
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1 hour ago, eruptn said:
No they anchor offshore an we send divers out to clean them!
wonder where the debris goes….?
When they get caught, that is.
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2 hours ago, waikiore said:
The PR side has been a disaster, and even the yacht clubs havent been given info packs to distribute-never mind runabout man who nips out there once a year and doesnt follow conventional media.
I don't think vilifying boaties as the sole cause of the spread helps much either.
Wind and tides anyone?
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19 hours ago, ZoeHawkins said:
Tuning in! Having talked with locals on the island I think it's probably more about making life a bit easier for people who live on Aotea Great Barrier who have been dealing with the restrictions for a long time... it's so they can go out and drop a line and get a feed. The situation is a little bit different in other places.
Exotic caulerpa is pretty nasty. I'm sure you'll all do the right thing.
Don't disagree that life needs to be made easier for the Barrier locals. There is no supermarket there, and a lot of their food comes from the sea.
But that doesn't explain why you can anchor (and clean your gear) at Great Mercury, but not in Tryphena, Whangaparapara or Bowling Alley Bay, can all through Fitzroy but can't in the Te Puna inlet.
Everyone wants to do the right thing. If only we could work out what that was.
Batteries in Watersnake Venom
in TechTalk
Posted
I can do about 8nm on 2l with my Yamaha 2hp. That's at about 3.5knts, weighs 12kg, easy to lift with one hand.
But I guess that wasn't the question. My apologies for interrupting.