K4309
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Posts posted by K4309
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3 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:
All yacht racing, at speeds over 5 kts, would be illegal until the government changed the law.
Yup, the sole reason for YNZ's existence is a copyright issue.
The single thing that keeps YNZ levying our yacht clubs, and us, so much, is that they control the copyright of the racing rules of sailing, via world sailing.
When the Weiti BC moved to withdraw from YNZ, and all the paid staff came and gate crashed out SGM (accept, of course his holiness) the only thing they could come up with that the Weiti BC would miss out on was the RRS. Nothing else. Nil. Zip. Nadda.
Imagine what the launch owners and Ma & Pa cruisers thought of that?
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With respect, I think all you guys have been conned.
The real question is, why are we funding a federation of yacht clubs with enough resources to employ comm's specialists to worry about doing survey's on laws that haven't changed for decades?
Yachting NZ are about as effective as a pimple on my arse for anything that matters. They didn't even know about the caulerpa ban in the BoI until I phoned them, so clearly weren't engaged with govt departments and advocating for boaties, nor influencing any decisions. They've left all the heavy lifting to the AYBA on one of the most existential threats to boating, and then had a bit of a laugh when AYBA got burnt.
This little exercise is a charade in tricking you all into believing that YNZ actually do something, and are important.
Ask yourself, what would happen if YNZ did not exist?
What would happen if Maritime NZ did not exist? We would be free of a great load of pointless regulations, there would be significant financial savings and f*ck all else would happen.
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10 hours ago, Enlightenment said:
Is this first photos State Highway 1 at the Brynderwynns?
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3 hours ago, ex Elly said:
Hopefully none of the buoys for the SSANZ courses are missing this year.
Looks like Rangi Light is unlit though...
https://at.govt.nz/media/1992033/weekly-local-navigation-warning-summary-20-june.pdf
I would not rely on the NtM being correct. The Harbour Master would struggle to organise a root in a whore house.
There were no NtM for the two missing / damaged Weiti River beacons listed as damaged, so I phoned to report them. This was approx 2 months after they would have been damaged in either the Anniversary Day floods or Cyclone Gabriel. He was like 'yeah, we know about them, already ordered the materials and waiting for the contractor to fix them'.
I asked if he should perhaps issue a NtM for them? (said with incredulity and sarcasm) He was like, "oh yeah, that's a good idea..."
To put it in context, they'd issued a NtM for trees down further up the Weiti towards Silverdale, but not for the beacons that mark the bar and channel. This Harbour Master has just been promoted from Traffic Warden.
PS, haven't read / checked NtM for 25yrs. The one time I do, they are wrong. I can't win.
PPS, isn't a light on Rangi light kind of important? If it doesn't have a light on it, we can't call it Rangi Light?!? Its not really a post, so we can't call it Rangi Post. Perhaps we should call it Rangi Colonialist Structure?
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1 hour ago, Black Panther said:
Toilet hoses i would replace rather than try to clean.
I thought you old skool types just used a bucket?
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I believe I've worked out the compensation limit question. It is temperature compensation. Mid point is 25degC.
Ambient temp currently is about 15degC, i.e. 10 deg lower than mid point.
My new batteries have temperature compensation of 30mV/C. A random example Victron VRLA battery has 24mV/C. At 10 degrees cooler, the regulator is adding 0.3v / 0.24v to the target voltage to compensate for the cooler ambient temp. I expect that if I warmed up the temp probe to 35degC, the regulator would reduce the bulk charge voltage by 0.3v.
If this is correct, A. I can test it really easily by warming the temp probe, and B. my regulator is actually working properly and without any apparent issues. 😀
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23 hours ago, Island Time said:
The fuse is not supposed to blow. It's there to protect the wire and prevent a fire - it's doing that. Oh, and you have done the test - replaced the fuse. Remember that the sense wire is connected directly to the battery, and could carry ANY current the battery can supply if it is connected to neg directly. To be like this would be a failure of a component in the reg, which is not serviceable. Replace it.
Hi IT,
I haven't been able to get the fuse to blow again. Would this change your recommendation on replacing the unit?
Started and ran the engine several times today, behaved normally. If I take the fuse out it will run at high voltage. Put it back in, runs fine.
Note that we did have the sense wire on the house batts, which is behind the VSR and therefore can't be 'seen' by the alternator when it is closed. I've shifted the sense wire to the start batt, which can always be seen by the alternator.
We've also determined why we don't get a high voltage alarm. The lead from the appropriate terminal on the regulator doesn't actually connect to the dash lamp. Amature hour!
I successfully got into the programming functions and documented the current set up, and changed the programme. From that I've found that the regulator is putting out about 0.3v more than the bulk set point. i.e. it was putting out 14.8/14.9v on Pro2, where the bulk set point was 14.6v. I changed to Pro1 which has a set point of 14.1v and the regulator and the batts were all saying 14.5. This appears to be the compensation limit. I'm yet to work out what that is and what is going on.
But in terms of replacing the unit, it appears to work in that all the lights come on, I can access and change the programme, it passed the diagnostic tests, and puts out current. There is this question about going to the compensation limit, and I'm yet to sit down and watch it go through and entire charge cycle and confirm everything is fine.
Noting that last week we found our isolator switches had shat themselves. the backing screws had fractured the plastic housing, so the copper rotator was not hard up against the contacts. There is a possibility this was causing voltage spikes, and how do you say "load shedding events". I suspect if anything was going to damage the regulator, that sort of stuff would have achieved it.
If I need a new regulator, I need a new regulator, (I've already sussed price, supply and model etc) but I'm keen to understand and confirm this one is not working properly / what is wrong with it.
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2 hours ago, Island Time said:
OK; You guys are expecting the (OLD) Balmar reg to be smarter than it is. It WILL NOT throttle the field back without voltage sense OR battery temp sense. For it to be blowing the voltage sense fuse repeatedly indicates a failure in the regulator. It's encased in resin and is not normally economically repairable. It's trying to full field the alt as the v (sense) is below target voltage. By the time the batts got too hot at >15v they would likely be damaged, possibly severely. Replace the reg. Sorry.
Hi IT,
What is the regulator supposed to do when the sense fuse blows? And is there any tests or a 'recreation' I can run to confirm there is a problem with the regulator?
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3 hours ago, SeaAir said:
I bet Russell C is impressed to have this in his face each time he looks out the window! 😖
Mwahaha
Russel is in Europe somewhere at the moment supporting a small team racing moths (I think his son).
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You sure its not just your animal magnetism?
Are they southern hemisphere compasses? Northern hemisphere ones are different, and 90% of compasses sold globally are northern hemisphere. I don't actually know how they are different, but they are different. And no, its not just the needle pointing south instead of north.
If they are brand new (2 months old) and procured in a hurry before departure, this may not have been checked.
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11 hours ago, Guest said:
Is the Cv setting a preset AGM setting not configurable on the 612? And there is no "custom" setting?
If the preset AGM setting is corrupted, why not try setting to a lower Cv chemistry, powerup and check output. If correct Cv fo that chemistry, reconfigure back to AGM and see if output is correct on reboot? This is assuming sense fuse is intact of course. This should bea data point on regs functioning.
Maybe the Balmar trouble shooter suggests this and you have done it already.
It is only a problem when the sense fuse has blown. Everything works fine (as it has for the last 20 odd years) when the fuse is in place.
Someone on here posed the question the other day, why is the regulator not alarming / telling us its lost the sense wire? I think if I can resolve that question, it will resolve / explain the basic issue.
Yes, we can programme the Regulator. It is actually on Pro2, FLA. (The old house batts were FLA). BUT, it has always given a bulk charge of 14.8v, and Pro2 doesn't use 14.8v. It uses 14.4 I think. So it is likely my father did a user programme at some stage and has forgotten the details. I'm going to review and reset those, but I've no reason to believe the programme is causing the issue. The issue is the voltage is not as per the existing programme when the fuse has blown, AND the regulator is not telling us the fuse is blown.
Thanks for the offer to test your spare unit. I don't think I need to do that yet. I need to understand the alarm states on my current unit, and confirm I don't have a wiring cross connection somewhere. My first place to look is if the ignition wiring is back feeding a voltage that the regulator is seeing when the fuse goes.
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1 hour ago, CarpeDiem said:
1. if the vsense dies it should use the voltage coming out of the alternator as backup and alarm
2. if it sees no voltage at the alternator or does not have this feature, then it should ideally shutdown the field and alarm;
3. or it should just alarm, warning you it has lost the v.sense - you could then still leave it charging and just monitor the voltage.
Sending 15.6v into a LA battery long term is a recipe for a thermal runaway - if you are lucky you will destroy the battery, if you are unlucky you will destroy the boat.
At the very least an alarm is the minimum you should have.
My engine will alarm at 15v, there are aftermarket high voltage alarms available if your engine doesn't or the setup requires such.
We have a battery monitor that we are setting an alarm up from. To a light on the dashboard. The first time we had this issue (15.6v) there was an alarm going. That was when we were trying to charge the batteries up from 7 volts. I assumed that was an under voltage alarm. The key issue that we need to resolve, is that the regulator is seeing 14.8 when the batteries are getting 15.6. That is why the regulator isn't triggering an alarm (although it doesn't make sense why the 15.6 happens to be the high voltage limit) At the same time, we have parasitic loads we are trying to identify. It is possible there is a short or cross connection somewhere that is foxing the regulator and giving us our parasitic loads. I'm yet to check through all the wiring to and from the ignition switch. And a few other places.
Whilst I agree it is an issue, I wouldn't just go and through out an $800 piece of kit for shits and giggles (the regulator). It passed all of its diagnostic tests, and as the first para in the manual says, the majority of issues with regulators are wiring and connection issues, normally associated with corrosion or loose connections. It'd be really friggin funny if I drop $800 on a new regulator, and the problem was a $2 wire connection somewhere else.
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11 hours ago, CarpeDiem said:
Going to 15.6v if the v.sense is disconnected would give me cause to throw it out.
Throw which bit out? the regulator?
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The update is that I've fixed the problem, but I have no idea how...
If the sense wire fuse is in place and not blown, everything runs fine, and the batts receive 14.8v, and the regulator sees the the correct voltage. If I pull out the 1 amp sense wire fuse, the regulator thinks it sees 14.8v (no idea how) but the batts receive 15.6 ish.
All the diagnostic tests on the regulator passed. So no problems with our 20yr old regulator
I checked the resistance on everything I could find, pulled every wire off the regulator and checked resistance there. Then pulled the alternator off the engine and checked everything there. No obvious issues. Outside chance I fixed something by pulling it off and putting it on, but I doubt it (its not a PC that needs to be turned off and turned o again)
I'm just reading this article on the mysteries of voltage sense wires.
Alternators & Voltage Sensing - Marine How To
And yes, I found that SA thread as well, the joys of google.
I'm most interested in this voltage differential thing you mention. The start batt was at 10.7 yesterday for some reason, and the sense fuse blew. Having charged the battery overnight at home, the fuse did not blow today. Looks like we may have killed the start batt too, somehow. Come to think of it, I just paralled the batts before starting the engine today, and the house is two brand new 240Ah AGM's, so bugger all voltage differential. If I tried starting on the flat start batt by itself yesterday, that would put out a big voltage differential. I better finish reading that article...
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6 hours ago, harrytom said:
correct but Auckland does have bylaws which one would thought would be enforced by the harbour masters
The Bylaw seeks to achieve this in Part 2 by specifying general responsibilities of persons within navigable waters and the following specific responsibilities about – • the carriage and wearing of personal flotation devices on recreational vessels • how to undertake certain activities • the use of restricted areas, access lanes, prohibited and restricted anchorages, reserved areas and special reserved areas • when near large vessels, vessels carrying explosive substances or bulk oil, or Explosive Safety Zones • ensuring vessels are seaworthy, identifiable and having appropriate equipment • the need to register personal water craft • the need to get a licence for and to maintain moorings
Yeah, but the Harbour Master can't handle basic things like issueing Notice to Mariners. Like I say, I got less sense out of the HM than my 8yr old while he's watch. I think the media would be well placed to get some traction on this. Not a lot of people want an old wreck of a boat sitting in the marine environment.
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Edit, tomorrow we are planning on running a series of tests as per the Balmar manual to check for faults in the regulator, wiring harness or alternator. This will include a full check on the voltage sensing wire, field wire and ignition wire.
We expect the alternator to be fine, as it is putting out more than enough ergs. As per the opening sentence in the Balmar manual, the majority of faults are in wiring and connections, so we are hoping to find the gremlin there somewhere. Really don't want to replace the regulator, they aren't cheap.
These tests should be just like defusing a bomb. We have to find if the fault is in the blue, red or brown wire...
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We have a Balmar MC612 alternator regulator. It has a voltage sensing wire to the house batteries with a 1 amp fuse.
The 1 amp fuse is blowing, and the alternator is giving both the start and house batts 15.6v. Any ideas on what to check? Everything keeps running with the fuse blown. It appears this fuse has been blown for some time. Replaced it today and it failed asap...
We have a bunch of other related issues we are working through:
1) Parasitic loads on both the start and house batts. Start is about 4 or 5 mA (if I've got my units right). House is about 10mA with the isolator off (most of this is the battery monitor and screen). With the isolator open it can be anywhere from 0.13A to 0.25A ish.
2) We recently determined the isolator switches had shat themselves. The plastic casings had failed, so the screws holding the rotor backing had popped off, meaning the copper rotator bar wasn't hard up against the contacts. A whole new BEP set of switches and VSR has been installed. We hoped that was the primary cause of our issues, but on commissioning and running checks today, it appears the gremlin has moved.
3) We recently killed the house batts. I left the isolator switch on one day, and about a month later the batts were at 7v. FLA's that were 3.5yrs old.
4) We thought the start batt was in good condition. It is normally floated with a 25w panel. I sat it out fully disconnect over this week, and it dropped to 10.75v. Clearly not in as good a condition as I thought.
The Balmar is correctly programmed and should be doing 14.8v in the bulk phase. We have substantial concerns about it squirting our 15.6v. Based on the history of issues, it may have been doing this for some time. We are concerned this is what killed out batteries. Very closely related to the other topic "how to make a bomb".
The Balmar unit itself is fairly old, maybe 20yrs. Having replaced our engine 160 hrs ago we did not immediately re-connect it (needed to get a 'thing' put in the alternator to make it work). The MC612 has been running for approx 70 hrs in the current set up. It ran for 18 odd years on the old engine without issue.
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3 hours ago, Cheap Transport said:
Anyone got an update on what the latest is with this boat?
She's gone from the hardstand at Gulf Harbour and is now anchored off Manly Beach, Whangaparaoa. Apparently towed there by a RIB mid week.
Has she sold, or has she been abandoned there so she becomes someone else's problem, much like the sistership in Queenstown? (Cynical I know, but stranger things have happened...)
I don't know what is going on with the boat, but I saw it being towed around on Wednesday. I was fishing off Army Bay. Looked like a regular fizz boat towing it. One guy on the hulk, not much else to say. I see it is on a mooring in Tindals. Dodgy as f*ck if you ask me. It isn't close to seaworth. No Keel, no motor, no rigging. It is literal just a hulk. Buggered if I know what they will do with it at Tindals, other than wait for it to bust off and end up on the rocks. Cheap storage.
I pondered talking to the Harbour Master about it. But they don't have a requirement for boats to be sea-worthy on moorings. And based on my last interaction with the Harbour Master, I would get a better response from my 8 yr old while he's watching TV. The Channel Markers into Weiti were destroyed back in Feb. No Notice to Mariners, so I phoned the HM to report it. He's like, oh, yeah, we know. I'm like, "so, don't you want to do a NtM?!?", he's like, oh, yeah, that is a good idea...
To put this in context, at the same time they had NtM for missing markers around Kawau, AND a NtM that trees were down further up the Weiti on the way to Silverdale. The channel markers are needed for getting into Weiti at night, and err, mark the channel. Really incompetent response from the HM.
@Cheap Transport, do you know if they've fixed the channel markers yet? I haven't been out that way recently.
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13 hours ago, harrytom said:
Was talking too MPI today today,control not eradicate now. There thinking is treat it like didimo and are looking at getting moorings dropped at a few places where weed is to avoid anchoring.
Putting out mooring buoys is an easy and logical way to mitigate the impact of the CAN's, to get boaties onboard, AND to assist in an actual sustainable long term containment strategy. And I suspect if they were done en masse the cost would be very low compared to the current regime if diving inspections, commercial divers, dive boats etc.
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Clearly wasn't seen.
It's what happens when you try taking dedicated ocean racers around harbour courses / enclosed waters. These are the IMOCA's, where all of the crew are downstairs out of the weather and sh*t tonnes of crashing waves over the deck. Ideal in the southern ocean or sending it across the North Atlantic at average speeds of 30knts. Hopeless for match racing.
Side note, thank good they got some boats that give the crew protection for the ocean race. The Volvo 60's or what ever they are called are frankly ridiculous with the tonnes of water washing over exposed crew. They must think it makes great footage, all their press is of white water engulfing cockpits. I think it looks like really amature boat design.
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I could recommend an insurance company that doesn't require rig inspections if you want.
There is this perception about rigs older than 10 yrs, but every time I've discussed changing my standing rigging with riggers, they point out the 10 yrs thing is not important and is only driven by insurance co's. Brand new rigs can drop. 20 yr old rigs can be fine, its about. You can change all the standing rigging to comply with an insurance co's 10 yr thing, and the backing plates in the mast wont be changed, which is the weakest point (rig falls down if backing plate cracks and rig terminal pulls out).
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1 hour ago, Black Panther said:
You don't think there's enough badly written/badly produced bullsit about sailing already? Maybe if I could get kurt vonnegut to ghost write it.
No, you'd be great.
The more left field or nuttier the author, the more interesting the book
PS, that is intended as a compliment.
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8 minutes ago, Steve Pope said:
Lyttleton harbour was the first place that Med fan worm was discovered. Didn't hit the headlines until it reached Marsden Cove many years later.
This is exactly what I'm on about. The regulatory framework across NZ is fractionated by areas of responsibility (international shipping and local cruising boats) and geographical areas. So far, they have only found it where they have looked for it. There are many, many places they haven't looked for it.
One of my favourite ruse's is to say "we have not failed any quality testing" on x, y, z, food, water quality etc. This is a true statement, regardless of weather you've carried out any testing or not. If you don't test, you can't fail a test.
I got a roasting once in a summer job as a student, doing quality testing on milk powder. I found loads of glass fragments / perspex swarf. I thought I could see something on the filter papers so used a microscope (that was sitting beside me at my work station) to confirm. Holly sh*t. Not allowed to use a microscope. The test was only for foreign bodies seen with the naked eye. But because the presence of foreign bodies was confirmed, they hard to dump a very large quantity of whey protein concentrate. I thought I'd done a good job, apparently not. Didn't get invited back 😁
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42 minutes ago, harrytom said:
wonder the same.Was he making a passage to Mercs or Whitianga? Strange how they stopped at the Mokes
I think a stop at the Mokes is logical. You can speed up the delivery by slowing the work down. Take a break to re-assess, check over, confirm your plan, etc.
That, and if I was a CG volunteer and was putting in that many hours, I'd want to take the chance to check out the Mokes on the way past. I've never been there.
Maritime NZ proposed new anchor watch rule enforcement
in MarineTalk
Posted
I've been pondering this, and EM's point.
There should be a straight forward way around an entire club's membership paying cash to YNZ, when only a select few want to race.
Now, what constitutes a club? It doesn't have to have clubrooms and assets. SSANZ is a good example of that. I assume (without going and checking) its going to need something like a constitution, a functioning committee and be registered as some sort of non-profit legal entity (like a Society, Trust or Club or something).
Now, what is to stop two clubs sharing clubrooms / a venue? So we could have the Weiti Boating Club (Inc), and the Weiti BC (Inc). One could be as per the existing club, with 500 members, a boat load of moorings, hardstand, haulout, clubrooms etc. And not affiliate to YNZ. Then the other could be affiliated to YNZ, run a race programme and members would have access to the copyright of the RRS.
Just like you pay an entry fee for a race series, you pay a membership fee to the legal entity that is affiliated to YNZ. If you just go cruising or motorboating, and want to make use of the club assets such as moorings, clubrooms, haul out and hardstand, you pay a membership fee to entity A. The trick would be in ensuring the administrative burden is less than the cost of the YNZ extortion. If entity B has no significant assets, such as SSANZ, it is in effect the racing committee of entity A. Overall costs will be minimal. It would be like a 'racing' add on to the core membership.
Of course the vested interests at YNZ will squeal like stuck pigs (how long has David Abercrombie been in that role, 15 yrs?) but hopefully the whole exercise will A) save the club a substantial amount of money, and B ) motivate YNZ to sort their sh*t out, and start actually adding value for their core funding base.