K4309
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Posts posted by K4309
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Just now, Hamish said:
ban affects this area:
At the moment.
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2 minutes ago, Ex Machina said:
Still plenty of coprous oxide in there . It’s the unpronounceables that have been banned from paints
The unpronounceables are now unprocureable.
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So David A was in a meeting, but I did actually manage to speak the PR guy Edwan. He wasn't aware of the anchoring ban, but once he got his head around the details couldn't wait to get me off the phone, in a good way. As in was rushing off to speak to David A and the advocacy manager (Raynor?). He did take all my contact details. It wasn't very hard for me to put a bee in his bonnet when he understood the extent of the ban including all forms of water activity, fishing, diving etc.
He was very excited to hear the AC expert said caulerpa was most likely introduced by the aquarium trade (immediately wanted to know if he would go on record). And that the biggest outbreak in the world was confirmed to have been started by the Aquarium at Monoco University. I 'clarified' that no-one has pushed back on the narrative that boaties are spreading it. I am hopeful YNZ will now push back on that.
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Just now, Psyche said:
Wow! Thats going to get people worked up!
Worked up?!?!
Just this minute I have been checking YNZ news for what they are doing (nothing) and just found the contact details. Wonder if David A will take my call?
The fizz boat and fishing industry (recreational fishing suppliers) will have something to say I think.
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All boating is now banned in the BoI, as of 11:59pm last night (Monday)
Yup. Everything.
Anchoring
fishing
diving
spear fishing
collecting shell fish
set netting
any netting
taking crays
To be fair, the bans only cover 1,000 ha.
Why?
200 ha has been found infested with caulerpa. Even the MPI says it is clear its been there for several seasons already, so good luck controlling it...
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Anyway, I thought these crazy Norwegian types liked the cold? swimming in frozen water, having plunge ice baths outside the sauna and what not.
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1 hour ago, Island Time said:
Nah, 7deg in east bay Queen Charlotte was the "cold" dive of the year, start of the scallop season. 7mm wetsuits in those days, now everyone wears semi or drysuits!
Mwahaha, yeah, but we are talking Auckland here.
If the air temp drops to single digits (i.e. below 10deg) we think the world is ending, blame climate change, the motorways are blocked and the trains stop going. Southerns just put on a singlet and pair of stubbies and complain about the heat.
I learnt to dive in Wellington. Used a 7mm hooded top and 7mm long johns, so 14mm across the torso. Used to get a nose bleed from the cold shock when rolling in, which my dive buddy really hated (he watched Jaws...). Now the heaviest wetsuit I own is a 5mm steamer which pairs with a 3mm hooded vest for the depths of winter, but even then I hardly need that much. Hate getting hot in the water. These marine heatwaves haven't helped.
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3 hours ago, Norwegian Blue said:
What options are left for in-water hull cleaning at Westhaven (excluding me in winter
). My regular cleaner is no longer able to do this.
Wettie.co.nz do good wetsuits at good prices
I was in the water on Saturday and was fine in a 3mm steamer and 3mm hooded vest (boots and gloves). Its not cold until you need a 5mm steamer and an extra 5mm hood under your hooded vest.
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11 hours ago, Guest said:
I have been using my “equalisation “ setting on the pronautic 1250p dock charger for the last seven years sporadically. 15.5V for 4hrs was default, after fully charging. Seemed to get the rested 100% soc voltage higher and tail current more defined with increased capacity. Was always too lazy/busy to set up a proper capacity test, so somewhat subjective.
I was always chasing that elusive 100%, now I’m the opposite trying to reduce soc in case I don’t come back to the boat for a few weeks. New tech, new problem!
Hi Guest,
Are you using this one? At $1440 it would be cheaper to ignore the equilisation requirement and buy new batteries. (Unless I had a 1,000 Ahr battery bank, which I don't, and if I needed that much power I'd probably just go lithium.
Buy ProMariner ProNautic 1250P Battery Charger online at Marine-Deals.co.nz
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Question: If your alternator is not running (blew up a diode or something) is there any harm in running your engine to get home?
Assuming you have enough power in the start batt to start the engine, and you either run dark ship, or the house batts have enough for other non-engine related systems, or solar (chart plotter, VHF etc), will it cause any other problems?
PS, where are up to page 2 and I still don't know what equipment to use to equilise a battery if I need to. Does everyone do what I've done for the last 10 yrs and put equilising in the too hard basket?
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1 hour ago, CarpeDiem said:
Use a splitter to charge the lithium and have it connected to the start as well. And use a cheap dc/dc from the Li to top off your start battery.
You've already got the mc612, it's not what I would recommend for a greenfields installation but it's an investment you can leverage. Obs you need to set the right specs.
Connect your current solar controller to your new Li and set it up for whatever Li charge specs you are happy with.
Hay CD, in this example, how do you cater for the different charging voltages required for the lithium and the AGM start? the battery isolator outputs the same voltage doesn't it?
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9 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:
I got mine a year ago +/- from here: https://www.ivent.co.nz/product/category/951/12v 100ah deep cycle lead carbon battery/38317 I am pretty sure I paid $275 incl.. I note that site now says $275 and I suspect that that is excl GST, so maybe I got that wrong... although prices may have also gone up....
Yes, I'm talking to ivent. Their prices on line are ex GST. Currently $280 incl (pick up).
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1 minute ago, CarpeDiem said:
Yes. Exactly that battery. Cost $275. The best value deep cycle around IMO.
There's so many different ways to build a solution. You need to build based on the outcome you want to achieve.
Champion.
$275 you say? I've currently found the best price at $280 each, but that is with a 10% sale via the Motor Caravan Association magazine. That gives me a 300 Ah bank, 150Ah working capacity for $840, and currently no other mods to my charging system. To do the same with lithium would cost about $2,300 ish.
If the batteries perform as they say, I can charge as fast as lithiums, and wont have to worry about getting a full trickle charge on each use to combat sulphation. i.e. the partial state of charge will be fine, same as lithiums. If they don't live up to the hype, then they cost as much as standard AGM's and I'd hope they would perform the same.
For your above lithium charging example what is a name / brand of battery splitter that would work? I've seen a few about, but I have no other knowledge of them. Never looked into them.
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3 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:
Lithiums don't need dc/dc. But that is one of many options.
What are some of the other options? The charging current is a key element for me, specifically faster charging. I could get two victron DC chargers, 30A each, but $800. We only have a 70a alternator, but the current batts aren't supposed to charge faster than 23 amps, so I can easily double the charging rate (safely, if I get the right batteries).
The other way to go is to change the start battery to the same chemistry as the new house batts. That may be cheaper than using DC chargers. Our anchor winch runs via the start batt, so I need to make sure there are no issues there (engine always running of course).
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7 minutes ago, CarpeDiem said:
I have one of these for the anchor winch and a backup start battery.
The equalization applies if you are using it as a standby battery. It would sit on float for 6 months and then undertake a equalization charge.
You're using it as a cycle battery.
They don't provide a termination current but it's safe to assume 1amp.
Charge to 14.7 volts at a max current of 20a when the current drops to 1amp switch to a float charge of 13.8v
I don't float charge mine, I just switch off and let the battery sit. It's usually 12.9v after 2 weeks in winter. During summer it's generally 13v after 1 week.
Good luck finding a decent charger. You don't want to be over charging it and the solar could have that effect. Ideally you want the charger to turn off until the voltage drops to 12.7 and then restart. The problem with leaving the charger on float is when the sun goes down the charger can reset it's cycle and start again at 14.7v.
What charger do you have?
Thanks CD,
Is it the same Kijo lead carbon you have?
Your explanation is logical, although not clear on the data sheet.
We have an EPever 20amp solar controller. We have been investigating the exact issue you mention. Every day at sun up, the controller gives it 2 hrs of bulk charge, regardless of what the batt voltage was, then goes through to float. I had 180w solar onboard so it may have been getting 12 amps, but one panel shat itself (there is a theme here). After investigating a few things, I've just put a 20w panel on so I can float, but there is no risk of overcharging. I did that as I was concerned about the state of my batteries and a potentially high self discharge. Since then they have died.
I've investigating the Victron solar controller, which is sh*t loads better than the EPever. At sun-up, it checks the battery voltage and shortens the bulk phase appropriately. It also has the blutooth and app, so I can monitor everything from the phone, and programme or change settings on the controller. Only issue is a victron controller is $200 (15 amp), and a 20w panel was $40. I'm working through a bunch of other issues / questions with my electrical system so may still either ditch the solar float, or change controllers. I may get more solar panels to replace my dead ones, which may initiate upgrading the controller, or I may get better batteries and ditch the solar altogether. The old batts were flooded lead acid, hence the solar to top up, and the float charge.
If it turns out I need a DC-DC charger for my new batteries I'll probably get one that handles the solar directly as well. Get all charge sources through the one charger, and get one with blutooth so I can programme it easily and monitor it to ensure what I want to happen is actually happening.
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2 hours ago, Island Time said:
Hmm, seams to me they have some issues in translation. Charge voltage and equalization seem to be reversed.
Also the max Charge current of 30a is a problem for most charging systems. Normally battery internal resistance restricts Charge rate.
I'd be cautious of this battery. There are local suppliers of lead carbon, 120a/r for about $600, with local support and neither if these requirements.
Thanks IT,
This one is available from 2 local suppliers. Both providing 'support'. But so far they have struggled with a convincing answer on the above question, hence one is contacting / confirming with the manufacturer. He says they have good / responsive communications and is confident he can explain / answer my question.
But that said, what are these other lead carbon's you speak of?
My current thinking is to install 3 of the 100A/hrs in parallel to give me a 300A/hr bank. That will give a maximum charge current of 90a, and a recommended of 30a to 60a. We have a 70A alternator with a Balmar MC612 regulator. That restricts charge current to 75%, which is about 51a, which falls nicely within the 30-60a recommended charge range. (another reason we think these batts are suitable for our application).
I would not be surprised if the translation has swapped the cycle voltage with the equilise voltage. All of the other lead carbon's I've looked at have bulk charge voltages around 13.8 or 14.1 ish. They claim the lower resistance means they can be charged at lower voltages, which causes less wear on the positive plate. But then these batts charge the same as any other lead acid / agm. That does not make sense.
For any other lead carbon at 13.8v odd, I'd need a DC-DC charger. That adds a fair bit of cost, between $600 to $800. If I get a DC charger, then I may as well go whole hog and get lithiums. Hence why I am getting clarification of the charging regime (in writing, from the manufacturer) before I go ahead.
IT, another question: Lithium's need a DC-DC charger ran of the start batt. My understanding of the reasons is that the resistance is so low, if an alternator is un-regulated, it can pull too much current (no resistance from batt) and fry itself in minutes. Also, if the BMS trips out, you can blow a diode, as the alternator is putting out full amps, and then suddenly there is no-where for it to go. The other reason being the start battery has a completely different charging regime to lithium. If lead carbon batteries also have very low resistance, is there the same risk of pulling too much current out of an un-regulated alternator, and will the Balmar MC612 address that issue?
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Attached is the product data sheet.
I think the terms here may have different meanings to what we are used to. The supplier is asking the manufacturer in China to confirm my questions. I'm expecting a response on Monday, or early next week.
Aside from that, what gear do you use for a normal equilisation charge IT?
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How to make a bomb, and other battery charging questions.
What equipment do you use to give lead acid batteries an equilisation charge? Specifically a charger you can accurately specify the voltage and current so you don't make a bomb?
We currently have flooded lead acid batteries for the house bank, and they appear to have shat themselves, due to various reasons. We have never equalized them, despite the recommendation being to do it monthly. The main reason being all the other recommendations on how to do it safely and properly.
I'm now looking at new house batts that require an equilisation charge at 14.1v, while the bulk charge is 14.7v - they are lead carbon, and I have a query in with the supplier on the specifics of those charging requirements.
I can't use the alternator, because the start batt is in the same circuit. The solar controller has equilisation settings, but the equilisation voltage must be equal to or higher than the bulk charge (not lower than). That and solar isn't that reliable for specific current and time duration. Oh, and if I plan to do a specific charge, I also need it to be sunny. Based on last summer, that could be problematic.
And we don't have a mains powered battery charger at home that can do it. Ideally I want a digitally controlled charger where I can set the voltage and current (or at least ensure the current is within a correct range) and equalise the batteries properly, when I want to.
I haven't been able to find a suitable mains powered charger via google yet. Any recommendations?
An extension of the question, if I could get a DC powered charger that does the above, then I could isolate the house batts on the boat and give them an equalisation charge off the start batt with the alternator running. This would be super easy as I wouldn't have to take the batts home.
And just to make things difficult, it'd be good if this fancy battery charger doesn't cost more than the batteries...
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Councils send strongly worded letter, oh, and ask for money.
North Island councils combine in urgent call to govt for caulerpa support
North Island councils combine in urgent call to govt for caulerpa support | RNZ News
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It is surprising easy to bend perspex yourself. Just heat it up a bit (to less that 120 c I think, so it doesn't bubble) and bend it. That said, that is for 2 dimensional things like folds and curves. A 3D item like a dome would take a lot more work. I expect you'd need to make a mould, and would need a way of controlling the heat / temp accurately. So there would be benefits in getting the pros to do it.
I've discussed making perspex dodgers with one of these outfits. They actually use an old pizza oven to heat large / long sheets, then drape it over a mould / frame of the shape dodger I want. I was going to need to make the mould myself, the next step would be to build a plywood box over it (maybe insult with some pink batts, or even just old blankets, use a diesel heater and some cooking / meat probes and an IR thermometer, and try it out. The cost of perspex sheet itself isn't too bad, depending on thickness. And you can get cut to size / part sheets easily.
It would at least be worth asking about the cost, as it may be less than you think. That, and as zozza says, the chances of getting a second hand one that is in usable condition is likely very low.
Either that, or you could re-purpose either a shower dome, or one of those sky light / sunlight domes that go on the roof of a house. That could be a good solution.
Edit, they even have all the details on a web enquiry form, here:
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12 hours ago, Steve Pope said:
small problem of Altitude (if that is a useable term) one lives on the bottom, the other wants too float.
Yeah, I was just working on my spin abilities, trying to take two turds and come up with a shiny happy outcome.
Here is a thought / question. If it leaks, NRC are responsible for clean up? Lets assume it leaks slowly, i.e. not a catastrophic failure but small bits at a time. Does NRC have all the gear and resources to deal with it leaking slowly? i.e. booms, boats, dispersant, the marine equivalent of vacuum cleaners to gather it up etc?
And of course the monitoring programme in place to get across it before it lands on the Poor Knights?
Also, lets hope NRC are slightly more onto it than Auckland Council Civil Defence (cough) and have ran scenario's and exercises focusing on a Niagra spill.
Dealing with the oil in the wreck on the sea floor is technically challenging and high risk. But the risk of a spill is known, so all prior preparation would go a long way to minimising the impact on that pristine environment. The only major flaw in this approach is the weather of course. But it appears to be the only approach that is actionable.
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Hang on, wont the oil from the Niagra kill the caulerpa, and our caulerpa problem will be solved?
I work for the govt, and this is clearly infallible logic
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1 hour ago, Guest said:
Fair comment.
But at this point in time that if it’s going to stop you getting good holding it will most likely be in one of the notified areas and you shouldn’t be there. In future who knows. Small consolation, its not taxifolia!
What gets me also is the “throw it back” instead of instructions how to kill it and bin it.
Or just instructions on how to clean your anchor. The 'throw it back' assumes people can see it, and are inspecting their anchor and chain.
They say a tiny rhizom can spread and grow very quickly. You may not be able to see it, or may have a remote anchor control. So why not advise if we can use a washdown on the anchor and chain? Maybe a little spray bottle of bleach in the anchor locker? or dish-wash soap, or some other household cleaning product.
I read the divers at the barrier wash all their gear in a foaming soap wash, apparently that kills it. I'd be more than happy to keep a spray bottle (or even a barrel) of some household cleaner in my anchor locker, if I knew what one and that it would work in reducing the risk of my anchor shifting this caulerpa.
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6 minutes ago, Psyche said:
Go to the YNZ site and it eventually leads to MPI
See weed, chuck it straight back (updated February 2023) [PDF, 5.3 MB]
Caulerpa identification guide (February 2023) [PDF, 8.1 MB]
See weed, chuck it straight back – Summer campaign flyer [PDF, 2.9 MB]
Caulerpa brachypus and the Controlled Area Notice at Great Barrier Island [PDF, 2.5 MB]
Leaflet on Caulerpa brachypus and the Controlled Area Notice at Great Barrier Island [PDF, 4.2 MB]
Caulerpa – Great Barrier Island biosecurity response [PDF, 943 KB]
Caulerpa parvifolia and Caulerpa brachypus fact sheet 2022 [PDF, 342 KB]
That is a very good example of the basic issue with YNZ Psyche (at the risk of getting political).
They appear super capable with comms specialists. A weekly / fortnightly news-email with so many stories to read. But no actual advocacy. In your example, they have loads of content, but all from someone else.
Given their national status as representing boaties, I would like / expect them to release a Public Statement saying:
1) There is no evidence boaties have spread caulerpa (cause there is no evidence, it is just a theory)
2) It is just as likely it is from the aquarium trade, and
3) Publicly challenge the logic of an anchoring ban, on the basis the Omakiwi material has clearly been there undetected for a considerable time (MPI's own words), and / or if there is going to be widespread anchoring bans (cause the whole of the BoI will be banned come Christmas, then advocate for mooring bouys.
Question, did YNZ turn up to the great Hui in Rawhiti that agreed on this anchoring ban?
Rather than vent on here, I think I shall find out directly from YNZ.
). My regular cleaner is no longer able to do this.
Caulerpa now in BOI
in MarineTalk
Posted
I'll be you a good bottle of whisky the ban is extended on or before Labour Weekend.
Imagine a fleet of 130 boats all sailing to the BoI then returning to Auckland via Tuts and Bon Accord? MPI will have a fit about people out enjoying our amazing coastlines. And shut it down. Even though this has been there for 'several seasons' by MPI's own admission, and 'for at least 5 years' by eye witness accounts at the barrier.