Steve Pope
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Posts posted by Steve Pope
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Trying to beat nature! good luck with that!
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Isn't that similar to white Island, they had (have?) a 1 to 5 level of risk, at the time it was set at 2 I would feel certain that any of the folk taking people out there did not for a moment consider there was a serious risk and of course the "tourists" would have considered themselves safe because if it wasn't then the people taking them wouldn't have. Life is full of unintended consequences, OH bugger It never occured to me that a live Volcano could possibly blow. In reality it was just a little belch, unfortunately the human body (in fact most bodies) can't cope with excessive heat and excessive sulphur fumes and lack of Oxygen. Tragic, immensly so. Will something similar happen sometime? Of course it will! Worksafe as with most rule / law systems only reacts retroactively. There was a time when there were safety inspectors actively checking sites and workshops to try to keep them as safe (for workers) as possible, not any more, years ago they were almost entirely eliminated. Think of the White island helicopter firm, (and others) not being prosecuted for anything on the day but being retroactively prosecuted for not having a paper trail associated re any risks associated with flying to white island etc. etc. facing up to $500,000 fines, per charge, follow the money. And of course said pilot was one of the Hero's in the rescues that took place on that day.
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A roller coaster, Man made and man maintained, or not, as per the current one falling to bits in the US is a totally different accident waiting to happen compared to = A Volcano ( please feel free to put in here who or what controls it) on a Steaming, Smoking Island Sulphurously fuming most of the time. If Worksafe was actually doing the job it is apparently supposed / expected to do, NO ONE would have been allowed to land there, end of story. OH, and Ruapehu (Volcano) People ski there every year and climb it in the clearer months. As we all know it has blown many times, killed and injured people near and far over the years. 24th of December Tangiwai disaster 1953 main line train wiped out, for example. Of course Worksafe didn't exist in 1953 but wouldn't you think with all that data re damage and deaths caused by Ruapehu that by their professed standards it would be shut to protect those who might think that it is a safe place. Or wouldn't it make more sense that we all take responsibility for our selves and our actions. No doubt about it Living is dangerous!!
A relevant line from a poem I like, A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, as he will go out when he shouldn't. A man who is afraid of the sea will only be drowned now and again. my apologies to the author.
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4 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:
On that basis we would not have any safety standards for anything.
Its not about people who make informed choices - its about those making uninformed choices. The tourists on White Island had a right, surely, to expect that the tour was safe. Adventure activity providers have, for many years now, understood that their job was to provide an experience that held the FEELING of danger without the actual danger. Bungee is an excellent example - in your mind you are plunging to certain death, but also in your mind the provider has done the engineering, training, product testing, maintenance etc that ensures you end up in a bar later watching a video of your screaming panicing self.
A roller coaster is a great example. Most people will have no idea what is required to maintain these devices so they operate safely - they take it as an article of faith that the operator does and cares enough to take appropriate steps. No-one, after the fact, would say "well you were an idiot for putting yourself at risk - of course there was a chance the car would derail and plunge 30 metres..."
Employees do not, in most cases, have a great deal of freedom to accept or decline risk - often they do not have the skills to even recognise it. The employer does, or should have. They are, by definition, professionals in their field and so should apply professional judgement. Further, they are required by law to be competent in identifying hazards and managing risks appropriately. Its part of what they earn income from.
Arguaby, GNS did not, the owners of White Island did not, the tour operators did not, and others did not.
In respect of White Island, Worksafe is a regulator of workplace safety practises, not a licensor and approver of those practises. They have no place (in most cases) to approve, disapprove or recommend any specific safety actions to any entity - that is the business of that entity.
New Zealand has what is widely recognised as a largely permissive business environment. If there is no real reason not to do something, you can do it. With that permissiveness comes responsiblity.Worksafe isn't "lording it" after the fact. They are holding entities accountable for failings in their operations that could, or did, lead to harm to others including people who paid for, and so had a right to expect, a safe tourism experience.
A roller coaster, man made and man maintained, or nor as per a current one in the US. A Volcano ( please put in here who or what controls it) Some steaming, smoking, island that gives off large amounts of sulphurous fumes most of the time. If Worksafe was doing their job NO ONE would be aloud to land there. OH, Ruapehu, ski field, has blown many times and injured people. What is Worksafes position??? They don't save lives, they only react after the fact, with the unasailable use of hind sight and retroactive punishment. ACC does a good job, but has over many years become basically a pseudo insurance Co. Using its own inhouse doctors who only use ACC interpretation of what is acceptable. It started off and was sold to the public as a no fault system, wonderful, except that it hasn't been that for many many years.
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13 minutes ago, aardvarkash10 said:
This is a somewhat cynical comment.
NZ has an unenviable record of damaging and killing people who were in positions where they were owed a duty of care. Our rate of death from workplace accidents is high when compared to our OECD partners.
We throw people off bridges tied to bits of rubber band, we hurtle them down and up river gorges at high speed in unstable craft both powered and unpowered, we take people out to unpredictble active volcanic islands, we clear trees on unstable and steep hillsides using cheap labour and hazardous equipment, etc.
In the case of White Island, the prosecutions to date have been for failure to meet a legally required standard of care. They have not been for he inuries and deaths that ocured, but for a failure ot have appropriate risk assessment and/or risk mitigation in place. This included a failure to undertake any hazard ID and risk analysis. These failures potentially put employees or paying guests at risk.
New Zealand businesses are fortunate that our ACC system protects them against claims from victims for costs or loss suffered after an accident. The price for that is that businesses need to show they are prepared before any accident occurs so they can demonstrate that they took all practicable actions to mitigate the risk.
Yes, definitely cynical, you cannot stop people doing stupid (to us) things, what could possibly go wrong visiting a live volcano site. People queue up to climb Mount Everest, some will die, (just not me) they think. OH, the Titanic etc. etc. People are risk takers, (look at me! look at me!) always have been always will be. Someone offers you a really good deal, probably too good to be true, but you go for it anyway We (those people) have to take personable responsibility for ourselves and the choices we / they make.
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39 minutes ago, K4309 said:
Watch what you wish for. We could have that here. But you would have to fund it. And me. And every other boatie on here.
Perfect excuse for a new buearcacy. Fundamentally, we don't have any issues in NZ that aren't already addressed by existing rules and regulations. What this thread is about, the Paihia ferry crash, there are already clear and abundant rules to avoid incidents like that.
Just remember, murder is illegal, but we still have murders. Just because you make more rules and regulations doesn't mean people will suddenly stop doing dumb sh*t.
Laws and rules don't stop people breaking them, but they do allow bureaucratic jobsworths at the bottom of the cliff to lord it, after the event. Think White Island, Where it is apparently simpler and maybe cheaper to plead guilty to whatever the charge is than to fight to clear their name. The Encounter in Northland, the only thing he, (the skipper) appears to have been found guilty of is an out of date medical certificate.
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On 28/06/2023 at 11:12 AM, Enlightenment said:
YUP, Thanks for all the advice, the trailer sailer seems the best fit for adventure projects as it is easy to tow between harbors and certainly more core effective without all the red tape that comes with a keelboat. 20ft Pelin Caribou 15hp Hidea Yamaha clone outboard with long shaft high thrust prop Aircat 335 inflatable with Suzuki 8hp and I just purchased a 1.8m PVC tender with oars.
I suggest that you consider getting tube covers for the PVC tender if you wish it to last., PVC fails very quickly in NZ summers unlike Hypalon which can cope a lot better without a cover. I had one with PVC tubes and within 2 years it was stuffed, replaced with Hypalon and it is still OK and unaffected by UV after 12 years.
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Be aware of anchoring restrictions, out at the Barrier and The Merc's re Caulpera (seaweed) infestation. What Aardvarkash sugests is a good loop. Depending on the time of the year allow for possible weather stops. your longest exposed run would be Barrier to kawau. On average I allow 6 hours + - .
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7 hours ago, harrytom said:
Forgot to mention, did ask where it might of come from .2 theories. Passenger ships as stated in a couple of news reports and possibly with warming oceans travelled via warm currents, no mention of aquariums though. Possibly been here longer than they think.
Asian clams in Waikato river, no idea but deliberately released, they are only fumigating suspected containers where contents are unknown or from countries with known diseases, cannot detect everything.
There biggest concern is the Brown stink bug, not here yet but travels on anything, everything can be a host, unlike say Army worm which is established here, most likely travelled on plant material/soil. Being there host.
Concentration is based on pest etc that can effect our exports.
I think you will find the "brown" stink bug is already established.
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20 hours ago, K4309 said:
Why do you assume Barrier or Rawhiti are the epicentre?
Lyttleton harbour was the first place that Med fan worm was discovered. Didn't hit the headlines until it reached Marsden Cove many years later.
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Davidson M20? several Hartley designs ++++ etc.
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It has been leaking slowly for many years, I believe it is a matter of when, not if or maybe. It should be a national govt. matter not an NRC one. Look at the Rena cleanup costs and Treble or Quadruple it and you might be closer to the money involved if / when it breaks up.
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5 hours ago, K4309 said:
Hang on, wont the oil from the Niagra kill the caulerpa, and our caulerpa problem will be solved?
I work for the govt, and this is clearly infallible logic
small problem of Altitude (if that is a useable term) one lives on the bottom, the other wants too float.
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1 hour ago, mischief said:
maybe a superyacht anchor if the omakiwi / rawhiti area is ground zero?
Guess as much as you like! We will never know! Though I think it well suits the Bureaucrats to blame yachties, we are a reasonably widely dispersed group, without a voice, or organisation, who would put their head above the breakwater to speak on our behalf.!!
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7 hours ago, K4309 said:
Ah, but oil from the Niagra is not a biosecurity incursion. So Biosecurity NZ aren't responsible.
And its nothing to do with Primary Industries, so the Ministry or Primary Industries aren't interested either.
Fairly sure that NRC aren't responsible UNTIL oil leaks. Until then, the oil is the responsibility of the ship owner. Oh, and as it was sunk in an act of war, insurance wont cover it.
So someone needs to trot off and find the ships owner, and convince them to salvage the oil before its too late. But as you see, our fractionated and siloed bureaucracy wont deal with it.
PS, I read somewhere ages ago, last time this came up, that the oil is supposed to be wax like, or very thick, and any attempt to salvage it is likely to substantially increase the risk of a disaster. Esp if they heat it to get it viscous. I think they are hoping it will just stay a guey blob on the bottom of the sea.
My thought was, purely and simply, here is something that we can actually do something about. Re the oil being wax like, there have been many reports over the years of an oil film on the surface, nah its just wax, Yeah right!!
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The Niagara (ship) has re-appeared in the news once again, sunk in the 2nd world war in the Hauraki gulf (by a German mine) It was heading for Canada and was fully bunkered. Read "Stuff" article for much more detail. I would suggest that this is actually something that the Govt, NRC, ARC etc. could actually do something about, rather than spending their time pursuing (us). by doing a Don Quixote, tilting at windmills, in the form of Caulerpa and fan worms.
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At the end of the day nature will have "her" way. Current army worm invasion in Northland, loves eating maize / corn, any green vegetable, etc. etc. MPI suggests it came in on the wind from Aus,? not a mention that it could have also come in on imported seeds, fertiliser etc. No mention of anchors so far!! They have only just found Caulerpa because they havn't looked before. We will find that it is far more widely spread and will, within a couple of years be looked upon as another immigrant that we don't necessarily want but will have to learn to live with. Think possums, deer, rabbits, rats, ferrets, weasels, stoats, red back spiders, various moths, plant bugs, pacific oysters, bureaucrats, jobsworths, argentine ants, aussie wood worms, magpies, mynas, hedgehogs, wasps, wallabys, feral cats, cats, dogs, us, brown and white and asian versions. etc etc etc.
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2 hours ago, Psyche said:
nice boat, I like the swing keel for cruising
Having sailed an alloy 2 x swing keels CB yacht for the last 18 years I doubt I would ever go back to a fixed keel, They open up so many more areas to anchor or just sniff around. Up in the Islands the bommies that had the keeler skippers on edge were never on our worry list.
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47 minutes ago, Ex Machina said:
We are under assault . Looks like the horse has truly bolted on this one .
Now awaiting the link to a trailer sailers anchor!
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6 hours ago, Ex Machina said:
Anywhere could’ve been the vector not just Auckland . If for example if it was off an anchor the boat could’ve have been heading north , stopped at mercs first then Barrier . That puts every harbour and domesticated inlet south and inshore of the mercs in the realm of possibility
I believe the fanworm first was found in Lyttleton harbour, long befor it was discovered in Auckland.
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5 hours ago, aardvarkash10 said:
Thanks K
1) Perhaps I misconstrued your message. Accepted - thanks for hte clarification, and please accept an apology.
2) MPI has said it is possible / probable. Thats not blame, its asserting a hypothesis. It's a realistic hypothesis, as is tidal drift etc.
3) There is no hard evidence for anything about it except for its existance (and its spread through tidal movement). It could have come from a number of sources, some more likely than others. Thats doesn't mean boats are not the cause, nor does it mean they are the main cause - the fact is, no-one knows at this point.
4) This assumes all boaties follow the rules. Collisions on the harbour, illegal fishing and other activities tell us this is not true in all cases.
5) He may beleive it, and it may be a plausible hypothesis. But, just like the recreational boating as a vector hypothesis, that doesn't make it true.
6) I will accept your word that it was. However, we are not in the Med. The cause and vectors MAY be different here - and potentially the variety may also be different.
7) How many singaporean tankers park up in Tryphena?
MPI has, according to their public information, tested salt as a solution. Its not viable give nteh size of hte spread area and hte collateral damage salt treatment leads to. I don't have the expertise ot question any of the other methods you mention, but I do note they sound expensive! MPI, like all govt deparmtents, is limited by its budget and hte public's appitite for tax takes. That's just a political and operational reality.
NRC are no doubt miffed, andthey are also cash strapped.
As to whether MPI is doing a "great job" I don't know. I don't have expertise in the control of invasive aquatic pests and therefore I am not in a position ot understand if the response is appropriate or not. In their defence, they are charged with controlling pests and threats to our ecology and our economy in a very open, very import dependant economy which has for years run a highly permissive approach ot potential risks - not just biological ones either. I do know that, like most Govt departments, they have been defunded and divested of expertise over many decades. Thier inability (if its true) to respond appropriately would not be surprising.
This may well be a situation where your concerns of organisational (as against individual) ineptitude are well-founded. But I just don't know.
Cheers
All of NRC's "bottom" diving, videoing, recording etc. has been funded by MPI. (from our taxes) At least that is what we were told at their "Fanworm" seminar in Whangarei a few months ago.. Strapped for cash?? they have just built an "office" in Dargaville. $9.2 million is the cost to rate payers on top of the almost $500,000 (from the provincial growth fund) they paid for the property. This was ostensibly to house the 2 staff members who had to drive from Whangarei and back every work day. They have sublet the surplus space to the Kaipara District Council, who have now vacated their older offices, 50m up the road (that were quite sufficient) prior to the NRC doing their expansion act. This will cost Kaipara District Council ratepayers $300,000 + in rent per annum. The NRC also plans to increase their yearly rates by approximately 10% every year for the next ten years. It is their planned budgets and delusions of their own importance that is out of whack. They do it? because they can!
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4 hours ago, MartinRF said:
I have a 60C (bought in 2004 if memory serves) but can't help you as it still works and is used.
/Martin
Thanks for the reply Martin, Around the same age as mine. I am going to miss it if I cannot find a replacement part, or repair it. There is a useful online clip telling you how to remove the parts for replacement, but no mention of availability. And Garmin say no parts! Just be aware that apparently this breakage is apparently quite common.
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I have a Garmin handheld GPSmap60Cx, a wonderful wee unit that has worked marvelously all around the world for almost 20 years. That is, until I put new batteries in it yesterday. It lit up, then went dark. The problem / failure turned out to be one of the metal battery terminals had broken at the "spring hinge" point. Looking online Garmin do not seem to have spares. (if they ever did?) Is there anyone with one of these that has failed, though not from a failed battery terminal, and that they still have it in their pile of once useful bits and pieces. Please PM me if you can help.
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Just now, Steve Pope said:
Goose Barnacles on one of the single handed round the world Yachts, in Tasmania, I think. Thet all left France (Brittany) with clean newly antifouled hulls. The ones (who have made it non stop) had to dive and scrub at sae.
I think they are the same as the ones on the log.
Advice on new cruising mainsail - what to consider?
in TechTalk
Posted
You could use the track for a sailcover with lazy jacks loops on it, I have a loose footed mainsail and used the unused bolt rope tube in that fashion. Although I guess an H28 wouldn't need lazy jacks.