Island Time

How do you know that all these other posters aren't active in other forums too?
 
Where is the hypocrisy in what has been said against your posts on this thread?  Guilty of omission maybe, but surely we don't have to list every act of murder below our names with a for or against column?
 
Broadly speaking, the posters against your position on here (me included) have been against any murder committed against anyone, where your position seems to be some murders are justified while others aren't.

Pete Burling - World Champion.  Awesome to watch, he was pretty much untouchable.  Looking good for coming years of NZ Sailing... Lets hope ETNZ shuffle him straight to the front seat.  

You can be anti-islamic and yet not racist.  Its not even like all muslims are dark skinned.  There are entire nations of white muslims (Albania, Chechnya, Bosnia), not to mention whole regions within countries like Syria and Turkey.  Of course there are also plenty of white converts.
 
To paint everyone who against Islam as a racist is just the ranting of the PC mob.
 
It is also not true to assume that everyone in the middle east are muslims either, there are (until recently) plenty of Christians, Yazidi and Jews.  Yet you just ignore crimes by both internal and external factions against these people.  Most victims of these Jihadists are in fact muslims, both Sunni and Shia.  How is it exactly that this one group of Sunni extremists gets to be representative of all crimes by the West in the Middle East?  How do their actions that you won't condemn speak for all these people?  How is it that ISIL / Al Qaida can represent in your eyes the very groups they are murdering? 
 
On the other side of the coin, to characterise the US as some kind of Christian fascist state is just plain wrong, it is a constitutionally secular state, it has had prominent Muslim citizens for years as well as many Islamic organisations - this one just popped up in the news today, banned in an Islamic state, but not in the USA: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11387751.  You can peruse wikipedia for all these US citizens that the US seems to have missed in its Gitmo round ups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_Muslims.
 
Someone else above suggested that these problems go back to the Crusades, well if we go back that far we all stuffed!  Why not go back to the muslim conquest of what were predominantly Jewish, Christian and Pagan lands which didn't actually finish until the Fall of Constantinople in 1453 - well after the Crusaders had been and gone.  These justifications for murder based on history are both selective and simplistic.
 
As for the lack of an outcry against other murders, I don't see you starting threads about it on here either.  In fact this whole thread didn't even start as an outcry against the murders in France, it started as a reaction to someone saying these murders were justified because of the Rainbow Warrior of all things.
 
In a more general sense though, it is only natural that we feel a greater sense of outrage over these murders, because they are closer to us, in some cases geographically, but more importantly culturally.  It might be philosophically wrong, but it is a natural human reaction, a bit of humanity that seems to be lacking your posts, which seem to have all the logic of a blood feud.
 
For instance, if your close family was murdered by someone with a grievance against NZ for its alliance with the US and acts in Afghanistan, would you still not condemn it?
 
As an aside, what of the people  murdered in the supermarket - did they deserve it too?
 
Like Dr W has pointed out, its perfectly possible to be against murder in France and in the Middle East at the same time.

Perhaps thats the root of this disagreement, one side including yourself is talking about principles and the other side is talking about practicalities.  Both KM and PW have a valid point, if someone is pointing a gun to your head and they say dont move, then you have better stay still. But that is not the point here, perhaps that tactic may avoid the battle but it certainly wont win the war. The war is about principles that underpin our way of life.
 
This is not a tossed salad of every grievance attributable to the "west" whoever that is meant to be, but a discussion about the freedom of speech, human rights and the actions of terrorists. Lobbing in Israel, West Papua, the lack of threads on various injustices does not add any clarity to the CH attack.
 
If you take the position that you must not make fun of anyones beliefs, then you are truly on a slippery slope to the dark ages. Our forefathers fought and struggled to create a world where men can be free, that struggle is ongoing against the tyrants and despots, the theocrats and thugs, and the creeping indifference to the erosion of what we already have. Today the pope has come out against offending religion that it should be a crime and alluding to punching the jester in the face, welcome back blasphemy convictions. In all of this the irony is that this board exists because of free speech and those who enjoy its freedoms are claiming there isnt any!
 
Try voicing your opinion in any number of Muslim countries or north korea or china for that matter and lets see what happens. Bit by bit things are changing and as they do the conservative element tries its best to stop the inevitable using every method possible. There is so much nuance and depth to any part of this topic, the reasons why thing are the way they are that I dont think we could cover it adequately without a great deal of patience and rigorous investigation.
 
Simplistic answers are often sensible neat and wrong!
 

The forecast is looking breezy and on the nose for the 12 boats set to start the Wellington to Nelson Race  tomorrow Friday 16 January, with 35 knot northerlies forecast for Cook Strait for a time in the morning. 
Boats entered: 
 
Am Meer
Blink
Crusader
Clear Vision
Gucci
Jet
Jive Talkin
Illusions
Montego Bay 111
Prime Mover
Wedgetail
 
Can Crusader make it 2 from 2 line honours against Blink? How much sleep are the finishing crew going to get? Will the boats drink yet another club out of rum before Nelson Regatta starts?
 
Updates will be posted here and on the RPNYC website www.rpnyc.org.nz as they come through, and hopefully some photos of the start if I can get away from work ...

For the sake of this discussion we assume no one is two years old!  Of course you cannot have total freedom of speech, you cannot incite violence or threaten violence, try saying "bomb on an airliner!
 
Perhaps freedom of expression is more apt, and despite KM's odd reasoning, we do have free speech in NZ. No you cannot stand in a market yelling racist statements, you will get arrested, nor can you encourage people to murder the PM. What you can do is mock anyone beliefs, such as taniwhas under queen st or suchlike, you can call John Key a jumped up little twat if you choose to. Should we kowtow to maori separatists who insist we must not insult taniwhas or get a mere in the skull? Should we never make an unflattering comment about dear leader?
 
CH mocked religion, that is all. They did not bomb anyone or incite hatred, just laughter at bronze age tribal superstition.  

Warning shot, radio statement "next one through the bridge if you don't comply". What else is the navy for?

Here is a video of our cruise on the Pork Chop this year. Big Thanks for Tom and Emma for letting us use this awesome boat while we wait for the new boat to arrive (big news to come soon). The Pork Chop really is the ultimate boat. perfect for family cruising with all the cruising extras and also a very fast race boat. Nice to be able to motor everywhere at 7.5kts with the super quiet and smooth new engine! 
 

The point is that Charlie Hedbo didn't INSULT Muslims, they OFFENDED them. Subtle but crucial difference.
 
And absolutely right - you cannot outlaw hate speech and still have TOTAL freedom of speech. No great loss - TOTAL freedom of speech includes all sorts of nasties including libel, incitement to lynch, etc. You don't need the "freedom" to insult a people. You _do_ need the freedom to have a robust debate about concepts that people might find abhorrent.

Hi T welcome aboard! You'll need to say where you'd like to sail. Where are you based?

This weekend's job is to clean out the engine driven fridge system.
 
The oil is dirty as two of the rubber hoses are disintegrating. Currently the sight glass is opaque.
So,  I've removed the gas, the compressor, the expansion valve, the filter/drier etc. Turned off the electric fridge (as when the system is cold the oil is thick and hard/impossible to remove). Taken off the two dodgy hoses and had new ones made. 
 
Today I have collected the new hoses and oil, emptied the fridge and freezer, and set up a computer fan to blow warm air into the freezer compartment to help it thaw more quickly.
 
So now I intend to flush the system with white spirits and compressed air, reassemble, refill the oil with new oil, vacuum it down for 12 hours, then refill with refrigerant. 
 
It takes a while... and so, if you don't DIY, its expensive! Already at over $300 for the hoses and oil...

Nice job on the site, it's a big improvement

OK, Article comment should now work for all members. Someone want to test it please?
Thx

No, it was not intentional. Fixed now, everyone can see both classifieds and class forums

Well, when I order my Salona 33 I suppose getting any sort of a anchor and roller will be another extra.
Or maybe these cunning Croats have done away with anchors ropes and chains altogether.
Ahh the power of the human mind.

Looking good

Flash as bro!

As part of the general cleanup before moving to the new server, I have deleted all the user accounts for those who have never logged in, and those who have not logged in since 1/1/2010.
If your account is gone, feel free to re-create it!

Its finally working!! The new software supports mobiles as well, so now you'll get a decent layout on smaller screen devices. 
We still have a lot to do, but Karl is basically done for the year, so some will have to wait until then. The advertising page did not port very well, and all the graphics will have to be re-done. 
A plugin will be added to remind those using Add blocking software to turn if off for our site please - it is what keeps us alive, and without it the page looks like crap!
More to come!
Thanks
Matt

Its finally working!! The new software supports mobiles as well, so now you'll get a decent layout on smaller screen devices. 
We still have a lot to do, but Karl is basically done for the year, so some will have to wait until then. The advertising page did not port very well, and all the graphics will have to be re-done. 
A plugin will be added to remind those using Add blocking software to turn if off for our site please - it is what keeps us alive, and without it the page looks like crap!
More to come!
Thanks
Matt