Who is going to buy our yachts and at what price?

[Black Panther 1,581]

Fascinating. I was about to comment that this forum wouldn't affect anything, but that post has me reconsidering. I am now officially uncertain.

[sow1ld 2]

Interesting point and I get what ur saying.

I see it as that the 2nd hand boat market has been on a downward trend well before the 23rd of july 2014 when this post began. So I can't reasonably believe that this forum will have any negative effect based on the market having already been down for a long time. But you've definitely got me thinking about the follow on effect of forums both good and bad.

I also dislike the negativity about our kiwi boats. I'm passionate about nz boats I have one! ...Maybe if we started a positive post about the great days sailing we have all had on our kiwi war horses we could keep the downward trend at bay?

 

A few thou can make all the difference from something that's too tight to something that's perfect. Just depends on your perspective

[BNG 44]

BP knows how many lurkers there are on here.

 

Buying a new boat, need to do research, I'll go to the library... oh no, theres the internet, oh and its searchable well bugger me.

 

Sow1d your naive if you think others dont read this stuff and thats very evident by by our posts in the Awatere thread.

 

Clearly you have inside knowledge either as a contractor or employee. Frankly its talking out of turn as either and would be grounds for a serious misconduct case or termination of a contract. Plenty of people get caught out like that thinking nobody but the posters involved read it.

 

I think we should think more about the threads we engage in. Its like some of the property forums where people winge about not making money out of their average white house, then lots jump on the bandwagon and it feeds the lurkers who go to the dairy and winge to the owner who then tells all his customers for the day the property sky is falling in. Becomes self prophesying.

 

Go to go, got a plan to catch, lecturing the heads of depts at Massey today on digital media policy but wtf would I know.

[sow1ld 2]

I'm very careful what I say about the Aratere and my comments are always positive. I'm only defending kiwirail and the Aratere from the haters out there!

 

I don't doubt people read forums. I never disputed that, My orginal point was the market has been low well before July of this year when this thread started.

 

Any way time to change tack this is becoming a yawn

[Black Panther 1,581]

There are property forums????

[Young Entertainer 59]

Upgrading has a lot to do with restraint. I would have loved a young 11, and even looked at a couple of 40 footers but the reality is I don't like working too hard and owning bigger boats means bigger maintenance bills. I t also appears we are lucky at Pine Harbour as the berths are 10.5m

 

So I bought the best boat I could afford that ticked the most boxes I could tick and knew that I could afford to maintain while paying the mortgage and not having to bust a gut working every hour to pay for it all. At the same time we accepted that we are not going to be upgrading the house.

 

BooBoo and Royale - take the best deal you can get on the current boat but don't give them away, both are great boats and they will sell, it only take one buyer. Then get your selves into a 1020. The more of them out racing the better the price will hold up.

[B00B00 310]

I agree with everything you are saying Craig. Owning a boat within your time/budget constraints is the key. I would love a 1020 but sadly it will never happen as I couldn’t afford the 12m berth needed at Westhaven.

My next boat will be under 10m so I can keep it in a 10m berth but I want it to pack as much punch as it can for 10m. I have my eye on a lotus 950 which ticks all the boxes for me but need to move mine first.

I know the value of being a cashed up buyer in this market which is why I need to sell mine before going to the next boat. I don’t have to sell and am quite happy cruising the gulf in a Marauder but in the next few years I want to start going further afield so need a bigger boat to do what I want to do and accommodate the 3 growing boys.

[Oracle1 21]

Hey Josh,

your right ont he 10m thing, thats why we have stuck with Oracle all these years, she is 9.75 long and 3.5 wide so packs a mighty punch cruising and still keeps up with 1020's racing. i am still thankful i brought her almost 14 years ago now. like you now that my boys are getting older we are looking further afield again. the modifications are still happening too we are currently rebuilding the old rudder. and the next RNI is on the cards again.

[Guest]

Thanks Craig. I was also looking at 40 footers but knew I would rather be sailing then working. We will be buying a 10m boat and hopefully keeping it for more then 2 years

 

I know my boat will sell before the end of the year if I keep lowering the price

 

There is more to life then money so get out there

[Absolution 7]

There are some 10.5m berths at Westhaven aren't there?

[Island Time 1,226]

You guys are doing well to still have a boat while you have a young family. I had no boat for a few years (5 or 6) while the kids were young. Suffered withdrawl symptoms bad

Eventually, by the time they were around 7 I'd managed a Noelex 30, then by about 10, the current 40 footer... It will come if you are obsessed!

[Young Entertainer 59]

I sold my first boat to match the wifes deposit on the first house, apparently I was unbearable for the next three years and have been allowed a boat ever since, but only one at a time is the rule I have had to live by

[Clipper 343]

I told my wife she wasn't getting a ring till I had a boat.

 

We bought a boat, 6 weeks later she got a ring (after I had seen her scraping barnacles and antifoul out of the centreboard cases)

[Guest]

Same here as Raw, Boo, Royal, Oracle and others. We sussed a couple of the R40's (and a couple of other sorts) on the market last year after that bugger Smithy (the sweetie he is) allowed my Wa on-board his one, but came to the conclusion as lovely as they were we were up for 30% more boat at 300% more cost. So we're sticking to the easy to park, use and cheap as chips run but still a big pile of fun 930.

 

Used OP's when the kids were small as we were pouring any spare (yeah right) cash into building the business. Of late I'm knot that convinced that was the best thing do to looking back but I started working later than most so was in catch up mode. At the time I didn't (couldn't ?) see that as I do now. Given the chance to do that bit again I would do it a little differently.

 

Lovin the style Clipper

[John B 106]

Its about priorities, all my mates had fancy cars, better houses, all the stuff that goes in them .. big stereos and TVs and microwaves.

We didn't have anything that wasn't second hand or gifted down the family but we did have a boat and we kept it for 25 years.Couches, TV , furniture, all old.

Mooring at Hobson bay, put a motor in it and moved to the piles at Westhaven after about 12 or 15 years when we could no longer get the kids as well as the weekends stores in the dinghy in one go. Something had to be left on the ramp for the second trip, preferably not a baby. Finally onto a marina with a bigger boat in about 07 .

I just look at marina fees and maintenance, and depreciation, as the cost of our lifestyle. We still don't go on planes to Tahiti or Fiji, but we do still have a boat we can take out each weekend in summer , take away for a month at Christmas.

Booboo's comment resonated with me. We were anchored up in the rain for a week at Kiwiriki one year, 5 of us all crunched up in our little boat sometime in the early 2000's. I distinctly remember looking over at three boats ( mates obviously) who came in and anchored behind us. Big boats, Regardless' or mull 42's , something like that. I turned to my wife and said " how can those guys possibly afford those big boats"

Now we have something similar ourselves,We're those three mates ,the idea wormed its way in , the dollar difference between marina costs for 10 or 12 metres and 14 became less. You want it , you'll get it. Something else has to go.

[Jon 360]

I think what the doomsayers are missing is the only ones hurting are the ones exiting boat ownership

It's all about the difference between selling and buying,

If your in boating for investment then your dreaming mate

 

We listed our boat for less than I thought it was worth and definatly less than it owed us but it sold in 4 days ( probably lucky ) but we can buy a lot cheaper also in this market

 

IMHO there are people out there that aren't meeting the market, some because they don't really wish to sell and others because their dreaming, but there are always options in any market.

[Changed 10]

I'm wondering why we expect boats to hold their value. Nothing else really does (excluding land) or collectibles. I work on the basis that everything has a half life. Depreciation is part of the cost ownership. Regular maintenance and upgrading may mean that your boat is easier to sell and may attract a premium however it unlikely that the premium will match the actual cost of the upgrades. A boat that is thirty years old with the original mast, sails that are 10 years old and an engine that was replaced in 2002 has depreciated. Boat ownership, to me, is about having fun and minimising my loss. I'm sure that racing horses and many other past-times can cost a lot more.

[B00B00 310]

Its about priorities, all my mates had fancy cars, better houses, all the stuff that goes in them .. big stereos and TVs and microwaves.

We didn't have anything that wasn't second hand or gifted down the family but we did have a boat and we kept it for 25 years.Couches, TV , furniture, all old.

Mooring at Hobson bay, put a motor in it and moved to the piles at Westhaven after about 12 or 15 years when we could no longer get the kids as well as the weekends stores in the dinghy in one go. Something had to be left on the ramp for the second trip, preferably not a baby. Finally onto a marina with a bigger boat in about 07 .

I just look at marina fees and maintenance, and depreciation, as the cost of our lifestyle. We still don't go on planes to Tahiti or Fiji, but we do still have a boat we can take out each weekend in summer , take away for a month at Christmas.

Booboo's comment resonated with me. We were anchored up in the rain for a week at Kiwiriki one year, 5 of us all crunched up in our little boat sometime in the early 2000's. I distinctly remember looking over at three boats ( mates obviously) who came in and anchored behind us. Big boats, Regardless' or mull 42's , something like that. I turned to my wife and said " how can those guys possibly afford those big boats"

Now we have something similar ourselves,We're those three mates ,the idea wormed its way in , the dollar difference between marina costs for 10 or 12 metres and 14 became less. You want it , you'll get it. Something else has to go.

 

John B, you are spot on. Its about priority and how much you want it.

Some people have established that they are boating people and will always have a boat. Just like us, we could never be without a boat and have a good % of our net worth tied up in a boat and always will.

We have never been on an expensive family holiday or spent any money on luxury items. We own probably the worst house out of most of our friends (but on a good street) and a house full of second hand stuff (mostly kids toys) but we have a boat and we love it.

Both of us were brought up on boats and spend all our holidays on them, we want to give our kids the same experiences we had and have the goal of going to the pacific islands before they are in High School.

To some people the boat is just a small fraction of what they are worth, but to others its a massive chunk. Funnily enough its often the people in the latter category who get the most out of it.

[Dambo 44]

I'm sure that racing horses and many other past-times can cost a lot more.

 

Motorcycles. Especially race bikes. A combination of checking into the responsibilities associated with having kids, not actually enjoying the risks, but a major factor was the cost. Boats (real boats with flappy things) go much, much slower but your chances of injury and death are significantly lower AND in my experience cheaper. 15 years ago my last road bike cost me in about 3k in ownership and maintenance - the fuel bill is unknown - and any time around a track was mostly in addition to that.

 

What others are saying about the family/kids stuff resonates with me also. That and Priorities.

 

My parents worked incredibly hard to provide a lovely big house with landscaped gardens, orchard and vege gardens but most of the family outings were to garden centers. When my first born came along my (then) wife bought a sidecar* for her motorcycle so we could continue riding around the circuits with the kid in tow (*incidentally - best way of having all the disadvantages with none of the advantages of a motorcycle except for free parking in town. Oh and it destroys the bike)

 

We bought a little boat that needed some work and haven't looked back. I'm also one of those that bought a cheap boat that was on the verge of being sunk/chopped up/blown off its mooring/otherwise destroyed, I've sunk $$$$ and countless hours into it. Along the way I've learnt heaps, met some awesome people and become something of a teacher myself to others with old sh!tters - sometimes I curse it and think that I still should sink it/chop it up/drop it off its mooring/otherwise destroy it or put it on Trademe for a dollar, save up and buy something better. On the other hand, even with the cost I've put into it, it's worked out cheaper than my previous hobby and to be honest given not just me, but my kids, something f*$king awesome - they still recount stories to their friends of waking up in such and such a bay, fishing out the back of some island, sailing to their friends houses on Waiheke and their land locked friends are entranced. This sh!t is invaluable and more than off-sets the decision between sell and save for a few years verses having a boat to go sailing on.

 

On the other hand, I'd put my old sh!tter on TM for a dollar if I had the coin to buy a 930 right now.

[Ptown 14]

Dambo there are a couple of nice ones for sale at the moment...