Tim C 23 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Hi All, The YNZ safety conference is on in a week. I have a list myself, but am open to suggestions. If you have any serious concerns on the safety rules please let me know. You can PM or use this forum to discuss. Thanks Tim C Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 is there a minimum specified size for projector screens? Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 is there a minimum specified size for projector screens? Good point Clipper... Also what's maximum decibel limit for and open air concert on Pulse! Link to post Share on other sites
Tim C 23 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share Posted November 21, 2014 is there a minimum specified size for projector screens? Good point Clipper... Also what's maximum decibel limit for and open air concert on Pulse! Maximum decibel limit has been recently exceeded with significant improvements in bass performance and horsepower. Enjoy, or don't anchor close... Link to post Share on other sites
Freedom GBE 27 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 Seriously. Never used a depth sounder. I would never leave my wooden boat and board a tiny little inflatable raft. The raft fills up with water when the bow is buried in a wave and could probably send you down the mine. I would never go without my chart plotter. Either digital or paper charts should be required. I am surprised there is no minimum size battery required. Hacksaw blades, one is more than enough when you have no wire to cut on our dynema stayed rig and the new blades are no longer brittle like they used to be 25 years ago. I cant see the point of having an anchor light since most moored boats don't have one anyways. Safety equipment should be tested and approved with a sticker of some sort. Link to post Share on other sites
Clipper 343 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 An anchor light is a good idea, but is it even a cat 3 requirement? Electronics can fail, paper is good. Although after my little hiccup, mine are pulp. Hacksaws, 12 is stupid on our boats, but I' be happy with 3 or 4. Last time I got cat 3, the only thing that really annoyed me was the emergency water requirements, but I understand that may have changed. I struggle to find places to mount my 4 fire extinguishers too. On a boat that races with no cooker? I have a neat handheld depth sounder, and have used cruising, but never racing Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,579 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 New technology flares use LEDs? Link to post Share on other sites
Delacruz 1 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 No more regulations please. We are sailing with so much safety gear and are inspected every 2 years - its already an overkill. Are we not sailing safer boats now than 30 years ago, I beleive we are . One reason boats may be getting into difficulties could be the fact that they are being pushed way to hard for the conditions and that just comes down to yachties understanding and accepting the risk of damage that they prepared to chance. I reckon boats are already safe, its just comes down to risk taking and seamenship and I would hate to see anyone regulate that Cheers Graeme Link to post Share on other sites
Freedom GBE 27 Posted November 22, 2014 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I am on a roll. I would be too scared to use flares in an emergency. Personal LED, reliable tested strobe lights would be far better equipment and safer to use. The flares belong in a museum they are likely to burn holes in the trampoline, blind one of the crew and burn some ones hand. Never cooked a meal during a race. Not allowed to use the engine racing, never tried the engine in a large swell. The engine would more than struggle in a three meter swell. Fire risk is non existent but we have three expensive fire extinguishers sloshing back and forth crashing around in the hulls, I hate them. The money would be better spent on a trysail. If the main rips to shreds in a storm we would be stuffed. Link to post Share on other sites
Tim C 23 Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 All good stuff. Keep the comments coming, I am listening (watching). If you strongly agree with some of the comments please add your voice, so that I can see its more than one person with a gripe. I'm happy to represent strong majority ideas. Regarding navigation. I think one of the challenges is how far do we trust GPS and electronics, and how much back up do we need. If the GPS system failed (either onboard or in the sky) what gear would you want aboard to get home? I'd suggest no less than we have now. Flares are being hotly discussed already. Some want them banned. Progress is being made. I hear you on fire extinguishers and agree. I'll work on that. I am also aware of two much regulation and cost involved putting people off the sport of coastal racing. So I am doing what I can to keep that in check. You've been able to ditch your stoves and bolt cutters thanks to changes I've helped with. So keep talking this week... Link to post Share on other sites
erice 732 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 the good thing about flares is that they are noticeable night - light and day - smoke and their batteries don't go flat, or short out, in saltwater even when expired thought the damn things are bloody expensive and go out of date far too soon imho Link to post Share on other sites
Delacruz 1 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 TC if our GPS units fail we already have the backup plan. Thats why we all have full sets of charts ,compasses, dividers, fancy rulers , protractors, almanacks and our light lists- Thats how most managed before the advent of affordible GPS's . If all else fails we can fall back on our cell phones(every crew member has one) and VHS radio's . I would make one recomendation though, Cat3 does away with the Lead Line altogether and if the mononhullers feel its an important part of their saftey kit, thats fine but I,ve never heard of multihull ever having to resort to useing one. Going back to my previous post- we are already fully equipt with safety gear and with common sence and seamanship most get by. Please don't over regulate . Cheers Graeme Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,214 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 +1 for the LED flares. Pyrotechnics are SOOO old fashioned! And expensive, and you can't "test" them, so expiry dates etc! Navigation. It is my understanding that it is now legal for ships to rely on electronic charting. I do too. I have not plotted a course on a paper chart for years. But yes, you still must carry the old tech stuff. My 2nd level is a sight reduction plugin for opencpn - If the sat system is out, just put in your sight, it plots the position lines right on the chart for you! Of course you need a sextant for that - or, believe it or not, there is an Android app that turns your phone into a sextant! Third level (for loss of all power on board, AND flat batts in the handhelds AND the multiple cell phones...) is a 50 year almanac and paper charts etc. Lots of people say paper always works. If my boat is so trashed that there is no power at all, no handhelds as well, then the paper charts are likely to be sodden crap as well. Just sayin... IMO most of the Cat 1 stuff is common sense, but you can't regulate for that! Respect for the Sea! Appreciate the opportunity Tim! Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I don,t like the idea of cutting a hole in a boat near the waterline for the required escape hatchs in an offshore multihull, before capsize they are too low and a potential weakness , many are sealed up anyway, after capsize they may also be in the wrong place, too close to the new waterline. A marked cut here area with suitable tool strapped inside and out should still be an option. it worked for the Rose Noelle crew. Link to post Share on other sites
Adrianp 119 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 My Comments in relation to Cat 3 for Multis: - Need for a depth sounder - Freedom now has one but I don't ever expect to use it (except to check the battery voltage - very useful to know how long the stereo is going to last!). Its there for rule compliance purposes only. - Flares - perhaps a tradeoff between the number of flares carried and PLB? I'm guessing in our situation (8.5 Multi) we would only need these items if we flip. Some flares would be useful to alert the the other nearby boats but a PLB is a good option in such situations as you will have it on you and it tells the authorities "I'm in trouble (and you know who I am and what to look for) and I'm right here." Perhaps something along the lines of "if a GPS PLB is carried on the crewmembers themselves, half the required flares can be carried." - Fire extinguishers requirements are a bit over the top for our glorified beach cat but are probably quite appropriate for a bigger multis - somehow the difference needs to be recognized. - Paper Charts requirements - perhaps these can be reworded to allow more flexibility. I think its good to have something as a backup but paper charts are almost useless in our overgrown beach cats that are very wet. More useful would be having the important area of charts printed out in detail and laminated. A3 laminated charts would be useable. Perhaps the issue here isn't the safety requirements but the Cat 3 rating of the Coastal Classic, being the race that most people get Cat 3 for. I feel most of the Cat 3 gear is OK for a longer race (Auckland-Tauranga, Yates Cup, etc) but the Coastal is really just a big day sail where you are never far from shore, with many familiar sheltered harbours and Police/Coastguard Units along the way. The world has changed recently in that we are actively tracked, have Epirbs/PLBs and have cellphone coverage the whole race. Link to post Share on other sites
1paulg 17 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Synthetic life lines - has already been comment on this in a different thread - but hopefully common sense can prevail when there are fibre lifelines and appropriate anti chafe measures in the right places ... Link to post Share on other sites
Hurts 6 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 Not actively racing my boat right now but hope to again in future. Count me in as a +1 on Clipper & Freeeedom's comments/contributions for what it's worth. Great you are seeking feedback. Link to post Share on other sites
johnMi 2 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 1. Flares, I agree, had to spend nearly $400 recently, waste of money, and I can't even practice lighting an out of date flare, and everyone seems to be ignited differently. I can just imagine trying to read instructions on a dark rainy windy night when all hell has broken loose to need to use them. If I have to have them, at least let me practice on out of date flares. Epirbs are better. I would rather be forced to have two epirbs than flares. 2. Epirbs. We have to have confidence that they are being monitored. I had accidently initiated mine in a grab bag once, (must have been at least 1/2 an hr). I rang coastguard and they were mildly surprised I think, that I had contacted them, not sure they had noticed. 3. Liferaft. I've always been told to step up into a liferaft. That would never happen to a multihull unless you were extremely unlucky. I believe I would be safer on an upturned Multi than in a dinghy or liferaft. 4. Hacksaw blades. Yep, 3 or 4 should be fine I would have thought. 5. Fire extinguishers, 1 at the galley, and one in the cockpit should be adequate. Link to post Share on other sites
Delacruz 1 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hey guyz please stop going on about epirbs for the crew, thats just dumb and hey they might even take it that your seriously advocating for one per crew member and heaven forbid incorporate it next years Cat3 requirements. Please get a grip, Cat3 already costs enough and the saftey gear is very comprehensive , if used correctly and when the situation arises and lets face it, if we don't know when that is then our seamenship is sadly lacking . Cheers Graeme Link to post Share on other sites
Clive 13 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Flares are being hotly discussed already. Some want them banned. Progress is being made. I hear you on fire extinguishers and agree. I'll work on that. I am also aware of two much regulation and cost involved putting people off the sport of coastal racing. So I am doing what I can to keep that in check. You've been able to ditch your stoves and bolt cutters thanks to changes I've helped with. Good work Tim. Link to post Share on other sites
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