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At least you don't have our Govt Idler.

The last one got NZ's use of Coal down by over 75% over 9 years. That Govt was lead by a bunch of people who are the most evil things known to man just here for 2 or 3 uber rich white males and no one else....or so the more mentally challenged tribe members will tell you.

The current Govt has in 2 short years increases NZ's use of coal by 87%. That's the Govt that's supposedly open, transparent, kind and here for the planet...or so the mentally challenged tribe members will tell you.

So the supposed bastard capitalist w^&#$@r Govt only there for themselves oversaw a massive decrease but the supposedly kind planet friendly one has not only managed to reverse the trend in a few short months but in 2 short years slaughtered the 9 years of gains the previous one made.

And to make it even worse, due to the supposed kind Govt virtue signalling the amount of coal NZ now imports has sky-rocketed. So this Govt has also dramatically increased NZ related ship emissions and no doubt labour abuses.....while metres from us there is a squillion of tones of the stuff that used to be mined by people surrounded by lots of environmental and H&S protections.

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Wowwwww.... this Michael Shellenberger dude a brave bastard coming out and more so speaking out but one in a growing trend coming out saying the same thing....not that the mass public are allowed to k

Lots of both sided arguments, and the thread was started I believe by suggesting that global warming was being caused by population increase. Whether that is true or not, the elephant in the room, wh

you know IB, you come across incredibly arrogant in the above posting, sounding something like a school teacher who does not like the questions from an inquisitive student. As HT flagged a few posts a

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2 hours ago, It Got said:

At least you don't have our Govt Idler.

The last one got NZ's use of Coal down by over 75% over 9 years. That Govt was lead by a bunch of people who are the most evil things known to man just here for 2 or 3 uber rich white males and no one else....or so the more mentally challenged tribe members will tell you.

The current Govt has in 2 short years increases NZ's use of coal by 87%. That's the Govt that's supposedly open, transparent, kind and here for the planet...or so the mentally challenged tribe members will tell you.

So the supposed bastard capitalist w^&#$@r Govt only there for themselves oversaw a massive decrease but the supposedly kind planet friendly one has not only managed to reverse the trend in a few short months but in 2 short years slaughtered the 9 years of gains the previous one made.

And to make it even worse, due to the supposed kind Govt virtue signalling the amount of coal NZ now imports has sky-rocketed. So this Govt has also dramatically increased NZ related ship emissions and no doubt labour abuses.....while metres from us there is a squillion of tones of the stuff that used to be mined by people surrounded by lots of environmental and H&S protections.

Shall we try some facts rather than hyperbole?

"Coal use for electricity generation rose 75 per cent due to the gas shortage. Changes in coal use in the North Island are heavily influenced by Genesis’ Huntly power plant. This power plant is the only coal-fired power plant in New Zealand, and is important for New Zealand’s security of electricity supply requirements in dry years and amid gas shortages to meet winter energy and peak demand requirements. Coal use for other transformation processes (e.g. iron and steel use) remained steady on 2017 figures."

https://www.mbie.govt.nz/dmsdocument/7040-energy-in-new-zealand-2019

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Sorry you're right. I did transpose the numbers, they should read - Down 87% and up 75%.

Which are sort of facts, inconvenient as they maybe.

I gave up putting in much detail when I realised many in this thread struggle to see anything beyond headlines so details are basically useless here. If it is anything more than 'But science said' it's both over most of their heads and their desire to even know.

Anyway back to doing more to mitigate CC than most posters in this thread, especially those krazy klimate kult kids ;)

 

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3 hours ago, It Got said:

Sorry you're right. I did transpose the numbers, they should read - Down 87% and up 75%.

Which are sort of facts, inconvenient as they maybe.

 

They are facts, but they are not all the facts and they need interpreting.

Everything below refers to the data in the Coal section of the documnet linked above.

During National's last period in government the amount of coal used in producing electricity dropped significantly.  This makes sense - our production outputs that use electricity also decreased - you know, GFC and all that.  Also, a lot of alternative energy (mostly wind and geothermal) that had been in the pipeline for up to 10 years came on tap.

However, all other uses remained reasonably stable OR increased slightly.  So the overall decrease in use of coal was actually around 25%.  Agricultural use (ie Fonterra) rose and fell with the price of milk powder.  Still does.  Not only do cows piss in our water, they smoke in our air.

The subsequent increase in coal use for electricity generation started in 2016, and sharpened in 2017.  The movement was around a 75% increase from 2016 use.  But 75% of 5.5pj is an increase of around 4pj.  This again makes sense -  a lot of gas generation went off-line as gas supply was limited for maintenance and repair work,  and our growing demand for peak-load management increased, ironically because of increased renewables.

This is not a Red/Blue/Green thing.  Its a "fifty years from now what should we be doing?" thing.  

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I understand facts..I understand various facts, according to various people..companies..political circumstances....

But...I understand consequences.

It is the consequences of the " various interpretations of facts" ..that will ...and is...right now..destroying our vibrancy of planet. 

 

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A big Pause in this topic...

I started it. I want it to keep going. Its incredibly important. I dont believe in creation theory.... I dont believe in a benevolent god, I do believe in the wonderful craziness of evolution. 

This creates a problem between me and with a few groups who are either deniers outright, or convenient fence sitters. 

My simple anwser is....we who DO HAVE KNOWLEDGE...are OBLIGATED ...not to destroy other species "ahead of time"...and if we are so arrogant to say , we have no control, then we have no control of our own existence on this planet. 

Thats a fact.

 

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😃😃😃😃 People wapping on facts are important yet those very same people are in this thread actively denying, hiding and suppressing hard out to dodgy the inconvenient facts. Like the Govt owns the power co and could easily have said 'Stop' as one did and one hasn't.

So I ask the same question I asked on page 1 and still have not got an answer to, "If things were so cut n dried then why the need to hide, censor, suppress so much and 'cancel' what were KKKK heros?"

'You' can be any of you deniers, the heavily selected bits of science you like to use or some one else if they like.

As always you have 2 paths to go down, one is to answer the question or the other is the only one you've trodden so far which is just flap your jaws and post large quantities of factually dodgy sh*t.

 

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Actually that's a poorly worded question considering the perceptions some of you have so lets ask it this way instead.

"What is it that has you so convinced CC is all human driven?'

which if the answer is 'science' then brings in a supplementary question of

'Which or what science/scientist?' considering so much and so many are being actively suppressed.

The other question that none of you have every answered is 'What have you done to save the planet this month?'. The fact none of you have does make me wonder how committed you are and to what. I suspect many have more of a commitment too web trolling than actually being nice to the planet.

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59 minutes ago, It Got said:

Actually that's a poorly worded question considering the perceptions some of you have so lets ask it this way instead.

"What is it that has you so convinced CC is all human driven?'

which if the answer is 'science' then brings in a supplementary question of

'Which or what science/scientist?' considering so much and so many are being actively suppressed.

The other question that none of you have every answered is 'What have you done to save the planet this month?'. The fact none of you have does make me wonder how committed you are and to what. I suspect many have more of a commitment too web trolling than actually being nice to the planet.

Both 1 and 2 are easy since answering the latter answers the former.

The broad global scientific concensus is that human activity is the biggest driver of climate chnge in the last 100 years.  Specifically our release of carbon (and toa lesser extent other gases) in large quantities into the atmosphere has led to a measurable and geophysically significant change in temperature. 

The scientific consensus is that, allowed to continue, the release of carbon (and to a lesser extent other gases) will lead to continuing increase in global temperatures such that the planet will not be able to maintain our current living environment.

Your statement that some science is being surpressed is not supported by the evidence.  Many alternative hypotheses to human causes have been and continue to be put forward.  To date, none of them have been supported by the majority of relevantly qualified scientists.  I'll repeat that with shorter words and slowly for your assistance - some people think its not humans doing this.  The people who are qualified disagree and still think its us.

Your last question is fraught.  The problem is so large now that individual action, while helpful, is largely irrelevant.  Drastic, immediate and ongoing global behaviour change is required.  What we are living now under COVID L3/2 is a good model for a start on what's needed.

That and more sailing.  Sailing is good because its relatively carbon-free and exposes us to the reality of our environment and climate.

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