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Over the last few years the PoA have produced a number of very condecending documents and that one is right up there.  It clearly illustrates that the fingers they want to build now are just a red herring and merely just their means of pissing in the corners to mark out what they want as their territory. Their end game has nothing to do with berth space, length or depth and everything to do with aquiring cheap land as close as possible to the port to park cars and empty containers.  The Council are horribly conflicted becasue they know that anything they block simply gets reflected in their dividend.  They also won't discuss that the proper cost for aquiring the seabed would actually make a remote port more ecconomic becasue, again, it will be reflected in their demand for dividend.

 

The whole governance structure, process etc has been carefully orchestrated so that this can happen.

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Haven't we just had weeeks of hearing bloody politicians tell us Northland needs economic growth and jobs. Seems that developing a container port at Marsden Point would be a great start???

 

 

BTW, I do remember as a teenager in Whangarei the Chairman of the Northland Harbour Board (yes children - once upon a time these things were owned by the people and were administered by elected officials who were held accountable every three years, how quaint) fighting to have the new container port built at Marsden Point. His argument was that it would outgrow the available space in Auckland and be a huge problem. He lost amid cries of cronyism and political chicanery. Seems he was prescient. Can't remember his name now - Barry someone??

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Do you happen to know the number re people that are employed with the Auckland's ports activities  and ancillary businesses associated with the port at Auckland. 

 

No

 

 

How many people would have too relocate to Whagarei Marsden Point Area to satisfy how many objectors / protesters not to mention the economic .monetary loss to the Auckland Council. Auckland region. Would they petition the Govt for another 2 billion dollars for a rail connection and motorways to transport

 YES, they could use the election bribe money on bridges as seed money to get it started.

 

the stuff to Auckland or have a enlarged local fleet Smaller cargo vessels to freight to Auckland. Who would pay for the coastal shipping co fleet. What  coastal shipping there is are owned and operated by overseas owned vessels. Various govt have allowed NZ's owned coastal ships to disappear to foreign freight companies which now deliver direct. Any guesses how much they would have to increase Aucklanders  rates to compensate and the additional freight  costs  that would be passed on to the consumer .

 

If you read my post you would see I did not suggest anything, but for the sake of argument let's say I did. Nobody would have to relocate if they didn't want to, though many probably would. PoA would not be shut down overnight, if at all. If the volume of shipping is increasing beyond the capacity of Auckland then it makes sense to build a new container facility in addition. If successful it could supplant Auckland entirely but that would take a long time. To use your own words -that's usual business practice.

 

Then another protest to protest about rate increases which you are already complaining about and you get stagnation.

 

 

No further increase with Auckland's population and all immigrants and NZ's have to settle elsewhere and not the Auckland greater region.

 

Would you allow Staff with a job transfer to settle within the Auckland greater region.?

 

 

Could be worth while. Would not even be considered.

 

Len Brown has been quoted as, that he has requested a economic future growth impact report.

 

Unintelligible so no comment.

 

It may be found the present extensions are short sighted / conservative judging by the size on the new container ships and cruise liners now being built

 

True, all the more reason to look at all alternatives

Some posters seem to be posting just for the sake on making a post with not much thought.

 

ROFLMAO

 

 

OC

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You are allowed ONE ACCOUNT. It WAS possible to change your "display name" as the user you are referring to has done. It does not change warning points or reputation, its still the same account. I have restricted this 'display name' option as well, now you can't do it without Admin assistance.

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900 items of farm equipment 4 horses 64 yachts 8 helicopters 1 giraffe 436,346 tonnes of ironsand

Ironsand does not come physically come across the Port in Auckland City.

 

3 cows 6 tanks 95,685 tonnes of bananas

 

 

 

Imports and exports

 

Sugar and sugar confectionary Coffee, tea and spices

Sugar does not come physically go across the Port either.

 

Fruit, nuts, vegetables and cereals

 

Electronics and electrical equipment Apparel and footwear

 

Toys and sports equipment

 

Beverages, spirits and vinegar Clocks, watches and parts

 

Meat and seafood products

 

Dairy and poultry Plastic and rubber products Furniture and furnishings

 

And even though it is listed as Port of Auckland, it may or may not actually shipped across the actual Port itself. As KM states, it can actually be landed at Tauranga and rail freighted.

Seeing as a Container vessel can bring in 10's of thousands of tonnes at a time, all those items you have listed don't add up to very much. In fact, leaving the Sugar and Sand out of it, the rest could have easily fitted onto one Boat. Not really what I would call and economc means of bringing stuff into Auckland.

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seems if the ignore function works

 

even if the user change is changed

 

can't recommend it enough as a filter to remove annoying static

 erice - just found the setting - oh the peace and serenity!

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Putting my economist hat on, gotta say that the trickle down trick of "so and so many thousand jobs created" is as old as the hills and usually relies on some very dodgy stats. So I'm very wary of the claim by Rehabilited (whoever he or she is) that POA "adds more than 187,000 jobs to the Auckland economy." I also find it the mark of a crude analysis, not to put too fine a point on it, that Rehab dismisses any alternative to his/her views as communist (grey boiler suits from memory). I think Rehab loses on a reverse technicality of Godwin's Law.

 

But let's not forget the most telling argument as far as I'm concerned: I'm told that the Lenny and Penny (Hulse not Whiting) faction promised no change until the big report on the whole future of the ports had been released for discussion. The P and L faction won't be getting my vote.

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Ironsands are exported from POAL on bulk carriers - it is hard to believe but it does actually happen...

 

A bit like logs in containers awhile back

 

 

You mean they truck it from the West Coast of the NI to PoAt?? I thought the Bulk carrier was loaded directly from the dredge over on the West Coast. Trucking that kind of stuff all the Way to Auckland to go out on a BulK Carrier would be stupid nuts. Not to mention the enormous stock pile of Sand they would need on the Warf somehwere.

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Ports of Auckland is also the country’s dominant cruise exchange port, vehicle import hub and container port, handling 36% of the entire New Zealand container market and 60% of the upper North Island market.

 

In October 2011 the company commissioned Market Economics to complete reports on Ports of Auckland’s economic role and economic impact. As well as estimating the role and impact of the port in 2010, the reports give projections for 2021 and 2031, based on the economic growth targets in the draft Auckland Plan, and explored the impact on Auckland in a ‘no port’ future.

 

 

Approximately $26.4 billion of trade passes through Ports of Auckland (POAL) each year, nearly 31% of New Zealand’s total trade, and more than 90% more than the 2nd  [ Port of Tauranga ].The $26.4 billion is made along by $9.6 billion of exports and $16.8 billion of imports.

 

By value, POAL is New Zealand’s largest port for both imports and exports. $16.8 billion of imports, $12.1 billion (72%) are intermediate inputs which are further processed or manufactured elsewhere  around  Auckland or New Zealand, sometimes for re-export .POAL  is the largest export port  the country has with value terms.

 

Trade handled by POAL represents 25% of sea exports and 22% of total New Zealand merchandise exports by value, and 30 per cent of sea exports by volume. The total role of POAL in the Auckland economy during 2010 was $12.5 billion of value added (equivalent to GDP) or 22% of the Auckland economy.

 

It's all typical baffling the public with BS numbers. You can make Stats tell any story you want. So what that nearly $25Billion come via PoA. PoA don't make money from the value of products. And if PoA suddenly slipped into the Sea over night, all that Freight would still come in and go out of NZ via other Ports just fine.

 

In my view, I reckon the better place for a Port would be Manakau and dredge a decent channel, even if dredging was a continuous on going project. Freight would be in a far better area for distribution around Auckland and the rest of the Country and most of the big Freight companies are stiutated over that way anyway. Imagine the Volume of heavy Transport suddenly taken away from the Central City area. Plus a large number of Ships are coming in from the West anyway, so it becomes a much shorter journey for them.

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heating up

 

Port expansion: Legal action over Auckland port fight

 

The group said it had notified Ports of Auckland and Auckland Council late yesterday that it proposes to issue legal proceedings against them in the High Court because it considers the resource consents for the wharf extensions were granted unlawfully.

Urban Auckland chairwoman Julie Stout said: "We are acting because we believe there has been a miscarriage of justice and because it is in the public interest that secret decisions and processes are scrutinised in the High Court."

 

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11423782

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The idea of using Manakau as a replacement location was reviewed quite extensively. The conclusion was that the quantity of moving sand is so substantial that a large barrier would be need to be constructed to control this movement. Rather than dredging the channel they would need to dredge and dump to maintain the volume movement. They weren't sure if they could keep up though!

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Popped up as a case study in a presentation on process optimisation I was reading this morning:

 

The Port of Hamburg is located in the centre of the city, it is constrained by space and cannot expand. The number of containers passing through the port has doubled in the last 10 years to 9million per year, they are expecting it to go up to 25million per year by 2025. To cope with demand the port authority are looking to a new computerised process for optimising traffic flow. They will integrate details of ship movements, inventory and destination of containers on the ship, data on traffic flows on roads, parking spaces, and scheduling truck arrivals as close to container offload times as possible - with the intent of increasing throughput.

 

Maybe Ports of Auckland should look to doing things smarter...

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