Whats wrong with the marine industry in this country.

[Kevin McCready 83]

Have to agree with ketchup. The risk should fall to the expert who's in business to do just that, not the client.

[wheels 543]

Only, we don't know the entire story in JohnB's situation. I have had things like this happen often, you need a specific fitting. Perhaps this was the case re these SST pieces. You order them and the part arrives with the invoice and the cost makes you want to sit down and have a little rest for a few minutes. After you get your breath back and heart rate down, the best practice is to call client and tell client you have this problem, do they want to go ahead or not. If not, you send part back and tell supplier they need to shift the placement of the decimal point if they ever want to sell one.
98% of the time, it is just plain simple poor communication. It's the most common mistake made by businesses, and most especially those smaller ones. The other 2% are the genuine stich'em up and send'em out feeling like they have just had the  "get ready for summer" Enema Detox Spring Special.

[Kevin McCready 83]

wheels, my experience is that it's not good:bad 98:2 it's 33:66. Pity

[Guest Ketchup]

Only, we don't know the entire story in JohnB's situation. I have had things like this happen often, you need a specific fitting. Perhaps this was the case re these SST pieces. You order them and the part arrives with the invoice and the cost makes you want to sit down and have a little rest for a few minutes. After you get your breath back and heart rate down, the best practice is to call client and tell client you have this problem, do they want to go ahead or not. If not, you send part back and tell supplier they need to shift the placement of the decimal point if they ever want to sell one.

98% of the time, it is just plain simple poor communication. It's the most common mistake made by businesses, and most especially those smaller ones. The other 2% are the genuine stich'em up and send'em out feeling like they have just had the  "get ready for summer" Enema Detox Spring Special.

That's where I disagree. Re my earlier points.

 

A engineers/whoever should have current pricing from his supplier (a contract price or just his buy rate) and the supplier should supply him to that agreed price.

 

Other should be no surprises from any supplier!

 

His price should be based on accurate supplier prices and his internal labour/machinery/margin charges.

 

Every professional should know his costs/margins/labour rates etc... and charge/quote accurately after agreement with the client on the scope of work.

 

good business people always have Current costings (updated as per supplier contract or suppliers quote.) before pricing a job they have scoped accurately.

[wheels 543]

Wow, errr, no your scenario is not always the way it is. I have dealt with many suppliers that have never supplied such info, because very simply, they are far too small to be able to do so. It is a huge expense and undertaking to make available that kind of info. Just trying to maintain a Website is hard enough, but you ask IT or KM or anyone that has had to, the effort that goes into creating it in the first place. And I have also dealt with many suppliers that my earlier scenario has been exactly what has happened. There are some occasions where you need an item urgent and you order it for the job.

[AJ Oliver 154]

Some marine contractors in our area (fiberglass & paint & electrical) flat out refuse to give estimates for the work that they do. 

 

It's all "time & materials" - take it or leave it.  

 

So I leave it.  

[Guest Ketchup]

I would too!

 

that is work that is easily costed and in industries where standards, spec's, etc apply.

 

Sure some will say that they cannot always see how big a issue may be (buried Beneath paint/fibreglass) but I say rubbish!

 

Substrates can be tested and issues determined and quantified.... and then costed.

 

The biggest issues with these people, AJ, is the lack of qualified/regulated proffesionals (owners and workers)

 

Even in 2015 there are cowboys in the boat repair/painting market charging based on wind direction rather than accurate time analysis and applied square metre costings.

 

Having said that there are some real experts doing good work.

[Guest Ketchup]

Wow, errr, no your scenario is not always the way it is. I have dealt with many suppliers that have never supplied such info, because very simply, they are far too small to be able to do so. It is a huge expense and undertaking to make available that kind of info. Just trying to maintain a Website is hard enough, but you ask IT or KM or anyone that has had to, the effort that goes into creating it in the first place. And I have also dealt with many suppliers that my earlier scenario has been exactly what has happened. There are some occasions where you need an item urgent and you order it for the job.

Sure there are urgent jobs where costings are not pre determined. but all other jobs should not be a problem regardless of size of the organisation.

 

Some would say a smaller company should be better due to less People/problems etc in the process.

 

Good robust systems and accurate pricing from suppliers, as well as Accurate input of pricing/costs into your quote system (basic program in PC) is not hard to set up. Even for a one mAn band.

 

One guy I know quotes of his I phone.

[SthnJeff 18]

After many years in the construction industry, you have your head in the clouds if you think quoting is that easy Ketchup. Sure for new work it is considerably easier, but anything involving additions or alterations to existing work is a minefield to quote. Yes you can make assumptions and guesstimates based on what you believe may be behind that wall, and if you price in all those assumptions you will be sitting at home twiddling your thumbs as you will not be winning many jobs.  

 

This is all something of an aside though. The crux of the thread is that for small parts / jobs, wouldn't it be nice if you could just order something and not have the supplier have his eyes light up and think "this will get me on the road to a new Aston Martin" leaving you feeling like you have been rogered with a very large vegetable. 

[John B 106]

I paid em. They can work out the GP on the 10 or 20 k they don't get to do at their own leisure. And so can can their supplier, he doesn't get to be considered for the hardware for that and the other work.

[Kevin McCready 83]

Someone mentioned the "real" point of this thread. For me the real point is asking Matt if he would like to help out here by instituting on this website some sort of objective system where we can rate the rip off merchants and idiots who don't know what they are doing. Perhaps a version of the broken trademe ranking system. Broken because trademe will remove true feedback if a rich git threatens legal action. So, not easy I know, but where this is a will .... 

 

Matt, would you consider a new thread on this? Imagine the power to clean up the industry. neighbourly.co.nz runs a reverse version where people ask for recommendations for good tradespeople.

 

What also gives me the shits is the meme that "he's very good but expensive and worth it in the long run". I fell for this one and got badly ripped off on a simple handshake job (nothing in writing) by a very well known operator in Auckland.

[Kevin McCready 83]

Tell you what Grant, I have Australian Institute of Management quals and used to manage a string of multi-million dollar projects with a great team. I'll give you a mates rate consult for two days to see what we can do with your quoting system.

[Kevin McCready 83]

LOL. Day one. Assess and understand. Day Two scope a possible soln. What's to lose? Tell you what, no mates rates. Free.

[Bad Kitty 252]

Well here's my 2 cents worth. Yes there are some rip off pricks in the marine industry. Just like every industry, but I think possibly a few less than other fields.

But there are some amazing people, with excellent skills and the ability to come up with great work, innovative ideas, and that bring real passion to their work.

When you have a bad experience, & they won't sort it out, feel free to scream from the rooftops about it. And when you find someone that does a great job, stick with them.

Even if their price is a bit more than you thought.

You have to ask yourself, if you get 3 prices, 2 around 5 grand for a job, and one comes in at 3K, can you really act all hurt & surprised when the cheap price turns to sh*t?

In summary, if you think the marine industry in NZ is broken, have fun when you travel, coz you have some real education coming your way!

[wheels 543]

 

Tell you what Grant, I have Australian Institute of Management quals and used to manage a string of multi-million dollar projects with a great team. I'll give you a mates rate consult for two days to see what we can do with your quoting system.

One size does not fit all.

Every industry is different. I have been very fortunate to have worked in several industries and at many varying levels of size. And each and every one is different. The key to that is understanding those differences.

But the key to good Service provider/Customer relation is communication. Pure and simple. Even years ago when I was Electronics servicing, it was often a case that a simple repair would end you being not so simple. If you fixed the thing and then the Customer is handed and account for twice the amount they expected, they would complain. In fact some would throw their toys out. But if you call them and say hey it's going to cost twice what we thought, they often would say oh well go ahead.

    Re the original situation to this thread though, I still think the Business should have been called and the question asked, why so expensive? I am sure they have a very good reason. Just saying I will take my business elsewhere because a part cost more than it should, especially when one is happy with Service, quality and labour, then well that is just cutting off nose to spite face in my view.

[John B 106]

I agree that finding the good guys is hard, for the record and from my experience, knotty is one of them.

People who don't do what they say they will do is endemic in all industries.

My point about the profiteering is more orientated towards some the bigger marine outfits, I can direct you to a paint type product which has a label change and is available at bunnings for $56.00.

At the local chandler it's $140.00.

Nice little scam for someone's pocket isn't it.

 

But on the other subject of just bad business', I spoke to a mate last night who has been waiting for a boatbuilder to do what he said he'd do for over 6 months, the job isn't done ,and now his engine has an issue , and he's been waiting for those guys for 3 weeks or so. Several phone calls and several promises, professional guy, great credit etc. but he's just being pissed around. But yes , you do get those in all industries.

 

" I should give up boating" was his last words to me last night.

[too_tall 15]

A  huge problem is with the marine industries inability to COMMUNICATE when things are not going to plan. We have had our fair share of terrible service ( always from engineering/electrical retailers/specialists for some reason ).

 

We have had some great service from people, and they have always made a point of communicating when things are not going as they had originally quoted. It happens in any industry. But I simply refuse to pay more than 5% above a quoted price without consultation prior to the additional work being carried out. I also make it clear that this is the case. If I am quoted $2K, and someone hands me a $4K invoice, tough. I always email this before they commence work, so they have been made aware of the consequences of over charging. You don't get too far in life if you let everyone ream you. 

 

This myth that its too hard to quote on work on a yacht is total rubbish. Seriously - do you guys promoting this thought think that working on a yacht is complicated compared to many, many other industries? There is a serious lack of professionalism in the marine industry, and this mindset is promoting this lack of professionalism. 

 

If quoting is so difficult, seriously, get a decent system in place to do so. List the limits of the scope of work allowed for in the quote, and communicate any changes before doing them. It may be time consuming, but seriously, its not that complicated.

[Island Time 1,235]

Agreed TT. Communication is the key. Be honest, own up to screw ups (everyone makes them!), and keep the customer informed. Be sure to ALWAYS do what you say you will, or, if the unexpected happens and you cannot, communicate this to the customer, and give them alternatives for a solution. Its pretty simple really....

But, like common sense, it's not that common

[Guest Ketchup]

Sure there are urgent jobs where costings are not pre determined. but all other jobs should not be a problem regardless of size of the organisation.

Some would say a smaller company should be better due to less People/problems etc in the process.

Good robust systems and accurate pricing from suppliers, as well as Accurate input of pricing/costs into your quote system (basic program in PC) is not hard to set up. Even for a one mAn band.

One guy I know quotes of his I phone.

I disagree, to a certain extent. there is a pofession that would also disagree.

 

Quantity surveyors!!

 

Sure there are anomolies but they should be the exception.

 

Sure projects with long lead times and things likencouncil involvement are open to issues. But there are systems and pocesses that can "lock in" suppliers to fixed prices with NO exceptions.

 

Construction can create price issues due to "post agreement" changes. But most industries I deal with are very aaccurate.

[Guest Ketchup]

A  huge problem is with the marine industries inability to COMMUNICATE when things are not going to plan. We have had our fair share of terrible service ( always from engineering/electrical retailers/specialists for some reason ).

 

We have had some great service from people, and they have always made a point of communicating when things are not going as they had originally quoted. It happens in any industry. But I simply refuse to pay more than 5% above a quoted price without consultation prior to the additional work being carried out. I also make it clear that this is the case. If I am quoted $2K, and someone hands me a $4K invoice, tough. I always email this before they commence work, so they have been made aware of the consequences of over charging. You don't get too far in life if you let everyone ream you. 

 

This myth that its too hard to quote on work on a yacht is total rubbish. Seriously - do you guys promoting this thought think that working on a yacht is complicated compared to many, many other industries? There is a serious lack of professionalism in the marine industry, and this mindset is promoting this lack of professionalism. 

 

If quoting is so difficult, seriously, get a decent system in place to do so. List the limits of the scope of work allowed for in the quote, and communicate any changes before doing them. It may be time consuming, but seriously, its not that complicated.

Yip! Spot on.