Davidson 28, Carpenter 29 vs Beneteau First 285

[robinm 2]

Hi,

 

My wife and I are about to buy our first boat, next weekend we are heading down to Picton and Nelson to take a look at a few boats:

 

Davidson 28 https://trademe.co.nz/986876224

 

Carpenter 29 https://trademe.co.nz/987692027

 

We're also taking a look at a few Lotus 9.2s and a Beneteau First 285 that the broker thinks is a must see.

 

Apart from the Carpenter 29 seeming a bit expensive compared to others on Trademe, I am quite keen on both this and the Davidson 28.

 

I would appreciate any advice on these boats for my family of 3 to use cruising around Wellington and the sounds. I'm aware I have a bias to NZ boats but am open minded, what I really want to know is how this Beneteau compares to these locally built boats?

 

Anything else we should checkout in our around 40-50k budget?

 

Thanks,

Robin

[Jon 360]

Both the Davo and Carpenter are good boats

Davo less tweaky and more forgiving

Carpenter more room and quicker / more easier driven and better cockpit layout

Prices are about correct but everyone is negotiable or need to be in this market, just remember that there isn't such a thing as a cheap boat, they are both no more than a set of sails apart in price and good to see they have been repowered as that's worth about 15k, the standard of the Carpenter should by better if its in survey but then again may have also been driven like a rental.

But check out the Bene if your going, I think it will have heaps of room but they never intended them to be like the kiwi boats of that era and have nine lives

You may be surprised and I don't know a lot about the small ones.

 

I'm a little bias as we had a Carpenter for 5 years and had some good times with her.

[robinm 2]

Thanks Jon, really appreciate your input.

 

The carpenter's open transom and being a bit faster is good for all three of us, your point about costs makes a lot of sense. I've been on another boat owned by the same charter company, well looked after but definitely showing the wear and tear that you'd expect. Mind you, being sound and scruffy is more my style anyway!

[madyottie 82]

I'm also a little biased, based on previous experience and observations.

 

I've sailed on a Carpenter a few times, and they are excellent boats. I would have bought one years ago if it had been a possibility. Good layout too, nice and comfy. Probably the only displacement keelboat I've ever really liked, unless you count an NZ37.

 

The only D28 I've really noticed was one that raced in Whangarei, and was always near the back. It did seem to stand up in some pretty mean wind tho, so if time isn't crucial, could also be worth a look.

[grant 40]

I've done a little sailing on a D28, many years back, great playing around in Wellington harbour is all sorts of breeze.  

 

Of the ones you mention I think the Lotus 9.2 would definitely be worth a look, the prices do seem to be coming down (balanced by the fact the rig/engine/sails are all getting older...) and they do seem to be very capable boats.  Especially if you are planning and going to and from the sounds

[GregW 28]

The Lotus 9.2 is the only one I've sailed on, is a great boat and probably the roomiest 30 footer there is. Other options? 30' or thereabouts was a popular size back in the 70s/80s.  Lidgard 29, Whiting 29, Chico 30, Townson 32/34, Stewart 34, Cav 32??  to name but a few............

[Battleship 100]

A friend of mine had a Bene 285 for a while, lots of room but more a motor sailer than the others is about the nicest thing I can say.

My pic would be the Carpenter 29 really nice boats and probably a step above the D28 which are also great boats. Lotus 9.2's are a bit heavier but bulletproof.

[sow1ld 2]

My pic the carpenter 29 hands down unless you can get stewart 34 then that would be the clear winner in every way. The d28 are good boats but a whole lot smaller than the Lotus or the c29. The c29 is probably the tenderiest of the lot but pick your days and tieds and go have a ball

[robinm 2]

Thanks everyone, sounds like the c29 is a favourite. Certainly my wife and daughter love the walk through transom (their number 1 requirement) and I'll enjoy the sailing. I'll let you know how it goes once I'm back from looking.

[Young Entertainer 59]

Also worth looking at a lidgard 29 if there is one on the market, Probably quicker than the rest and fairly big downstairs. Walk through transom as well

[raz88 96]

What about a Young 88?  They are to essentially to a carpenter 29 what a carpenter 29 is to a D28...  Slightly faster, slightly roomier etc.  There are a couple on trademe for 30ish and plenty more within the price range of the carpenter linked to at the top.

[erice 732]

88s under $40k

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-949306185.htm

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-991508936.htm

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-973682906.htm

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-947375679.htm

 

a lot of bukh 10s in there

[madyottie 82]

I've raced on Delinquent (the top one in erice's list) a few times with Leo when he first bought her. Agreed a fantastic boat, but personally I'd rather have a carpenter.  Maybe my memory is dodgy, but I felt Lollipop (Carpenter) was roomier.

 

That said, when considering everything, the prices, and the fact that you can have proper one design racing could certainly push the 88's into favour. 

 

I have heard (although second hand info, I have no real experience of it) that Y88's get blown around a bit without a fair chunk of crew weight on the rail. I've witnessed it also with a Farr 9.2.  Not something I ever felt in Delinquent, but she is slightly heavier than most.

 

Maybe someone with more knowledge than me can chime in and confirm or deny.

[raz88 96]

I guess it comes down to what suits the op's requirements best.

At the end of the day it's probably best to buy the tidyiest whiting/lidguard/carpenter/y88 you can find with the best gear for your money.

 

To me they're all a step up from a d28, so while the d28 linked to in the first post looks a good boat, it would have to be cheaper than the carpenter shown for me to go down that track.

 

As much as I'm biased towards the 88s - owning one myself, I can appreciate that the cheaper ones are let down by old engines etc compared to the carpenter in this thread. I wouldn't worry about an 88 being blown away in a breeze without crew compared to any of the others though - they always go well in the shorthanded ssanz racing through winter in some pretty windy conditions. And easy to reef or flatten the main so pretty manageable in most conditions.

[Pumbaa 9]

Just browsing the forums and checking out the boats you're interested in, the Beneteau, I've never owned one but hands down the winner for layout and design. If you can get that for a price within your budget that would be a good boat for it's size. I've always had older bigger boats because that's what my budget allows and we like to cover distances but every time I go on board a modern yacht I'm blown away by the size and accommodation that's crammed into a small yacht. We lived and cruised on board an Alden 43 ketch for several years with kids and all the classic yacht stuff going on. We met a family of similar ages, as you do, they were on a 30 or so foot Beneteau . They had 3 separate cabins and 2 heads! And more besides. We go back to our 40ft classic yacht with all the row away value in the world and it makes you think would I swap?

[robinm 2]

As for a Young 88 - I am now looking at these too  Although I'm a little sad that people are less favourable of the d28 - certainly this one seems to be very well maintained from what the current owner has told me.

I have a great book, New Zealand Classic Yachts by Bill Endean which covers most of the boats we're talking about here. I'm sure some of you are familiar with it, I picked it up for $5 at an op shop but I've seen copies on Trademe for $175

 

The book talks about the Y88 as being an "outdoor boat" with a small waterline beam over 2 feet less that the L9.2 and a much bigger cockpit vs interior space. As we're really wanting a boat primarily for cruising and learning, the book had initially put me off. I wonder if the Y88 is just a bit more of a racer? The only way to find out is to take a look and compare I guess.

 

Performance is not something I totally want to discount, my wife is learning to sail (fast) and already she's smiling when we're close-hauled and considering putting in a reef....

[Kevin McCready 83]

If it ever comes down to one final factor being the deciding factor, I'd go for a boat where the boom passes over your head if it happens to swing out of control. I've got an Easterly 30 and I'm small enough not to worry too much about the boom hitting me. I bought it only ever having owned a dinghy or two and an ss24; so it was my second keeler. I bought it as a safe, solid, forgiving boat but would probably go for something more sporty next time. I like the idea of an open transom which will dump a cockpit load of water quickly if you ship a wave.

[John B 106]

I think you might be getting a bit of a mis direction with the 88, it sounds like you're new and want to take your wife and family sailing in cook straight to me ,and an 88 is pretty racy by comparison to those others. If you want to have someone stuck to a traveller the whole time and be really active about your sailing it might be a good idea, but from your earlier description of what you want to do, you might be disappointed or worse , your family might.

Not that I've got anything against Young boats , they are fantastic , my son is on one coming across the Tasman as we speak( a bit bigger).

Also consider their hull shape or any similar type boat , they're pencils in the bow with all their living/ accommodation well back in the boat. A boat with fuller sections forward will have a vast amount more room and a place to tuck the kids in out of the way and still have some quarter berth options up your sleeve.Consider this too, a fast light boat loaded for a months cruise suddenly isn't such a fast light boat anymore and will conform to normal 'hull speed ' rules.

I cruised next to and with a Davidson 28 for 20 years, families growing up, I have the utmost respect for them as a design and for a boat that acheives what it is intended to do. Nothing wrong with performance that a big headsail on a light day wont fix.

Carpenters have a great reputation but I've never sailed one . I expect they are faultless sailers.

And thats brings up another subject. Our kiwi boats are sorted for our conditions and often have what is needed for storage and tankage, some of those older bene's were just atrocious on the wind , underpowered and had very little storage and tanks. I'm thinking of one our friends looked after for a season and that thing was just awful.But I don't think it was a First, to be fair.

Lotus 9.2. a generation younger than the Davidson, giant volume for length, totally forgiving as a sailing yacht, perfect on the helm like every Wright I've ever been on and you know what, I raced on one in Pons. winter series for 7 or 10 years , those boats were performing fine against similar sized boats including the fractionals. One two handed back in the day we were caught with the number one on on a squall warning day ( well, what you gonna do?) After half the race with barely 8 knots of wind We got the squall, 40 knots easy and I remember feathering it through the gusts with that big headsail totally under control, still great helm , main dumped. Very good boats.

So I think they are a generation and a standard ahead of the Davidson so should be more expensive.Thinking back say 10 years, the Davidson used to be a 40 k boat and the Lotus an 80 K boat, so now the gap has closed vastly.

Having said that and as has been said already, everything you need for a boat costs a lot so inventory and what is needed to be done is worth a lot in monetary terms . A new motor or one with plenty of hours left is really important and the rest of the stuff, sails , rigging even cordage is money. A boat with all that done or up to standard is ahead.

[khayyam 68]

With the Y88s you also pay for being in an active one-design class. Lots of people love that of course. But, if you're not going to race in that scene, do you want to pay for it?

[Kevin McCready 83]

John B, looks like your message box is full, I couldn't PM you. Thanks for excellent post on Carpenter Davidson thread. It was great for a relative newbie like me. If you're around Okahu Bay it would be good to say hello. 0226710335

 

I wanted to ask you how would you compare Easterly 30 and Davidson 28 and Nova 28?