Responsibility

[brendong 5]

Currently there's an auction on a well known trading/selling site, the auction is for a yacht in very tired condition. The yacht is in Auckland, someone in the South Is is asking if the yacht (basically in it's current condition) could be sailed to the South Is.

After following "Wheels" Xmas trip down the East Coast (Auckland to Picton) and as most of us on this site are aware a trip like this (Auckland to South Is) can not be taken lightly and a fair amount of planning and expertise must be put in place.

When I see comments like " Can the boat be sailed to the South Is" I find it somewhat disturbing and just wunder where the buck stops and who takes responsibility on these fool hardy sort of ventures. 

[Kevin McCready 83]

Good question. Link to the auction? Speaking as a bush lawyer, the law is what the law says the law is. The law is made up of lawmakers, courts, enforcement officers and citizens. I remember being amazed as a child when my father told me about the institution of "citizen's arrest". Since we are all the law, we all share responsibility both legally and morally. Imagine a coroner asking you "You knew there was a serious risk, what did you do?" Personally I couldn't live with myself If I saw an ill-prepared ignorant "adventurer" about to endanger their life. I'd be morally obliged to warn them. If they were putting innocent minors at serious risk I might take it a step further. If the harbourmaster or water police saw them risking their lives they could possibly take it a step further too in terms perhaps of operating a watercraft in a dangerous manner or something along those lines - you get the drift. And no I don't want bureaucratic interference in adventures. If an adventurer knows the risk, great. But I'm reminded of a certain local yacht club where the young people in the safety boats in charge of even younger people don't bother putting on their lilfejackets properly. The lack of a safety culture in NZ from the Navy down is a bit of a worry.

[erice 732]

By the time Iraena Asher walked into the sea and drowned, there were at least nine people who could have come to her aid.

Some did nothing. Some tried to help in a small way. But only one family chose to do more for the distressed, erratic young woman - and now they have been labelled partially responsible for her fate.

Piha couple Julia Woodhouse and Bobbie Carroll were told their decision not to call police when they took Asher home for the night after finding her alone on the side of the road was a “contributing factor” in her 2004 death, a coroner's ruling last week concluded, eight years after she disappeared.

Shocked at the seeming hypocrisy of a decision that also labelled them “Good Samaritans”, the women have been left wondering if the ruling will only discourage others from lending a hand.

 

“I can see why those [last] people didn't call police. It's her business. If a girl wants to stand around naked, why the hell can't she?” Newbold said.

Most people would usually call 111 if they could see a person's behaviour had a predictable adverse outcome, he said.

“Otherwise it's like dobbing people in. And we don't like dobbing people in.”

In that vein, Newbold believed the coroner's comments towards Woodhouse and Carroll were very harsh.

“That girl drowning was by no means a predictable outcome. It wasn't even a remotely likely outcome in those circumstances,” he said.

“I think they were acting like responsible citizens. I feel sorry for Woodhouse and Carroll. And I think most people would see the reality of that situation.”

In making his ruling, Ryan said he was not criticising Woodhouse and Carroll, but was "acknowledging there was an opportunity for professional intervention that may have affected the outcome."

 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/7324493/Coroners-blame-harsh-say-experts

[Romany 162]

I thought that young woman was never found? And no trace of either. All very odd.

 

But back to the topic - buyer beware if you ask me. Maybe the potential buyer is a super gung ho boat guy, a kind of maritime Bear Grylls?

 

Hard to say without a link to the auction Brendong - you haven't said if the vendor is maintaining it could get to the south island or not.

[harrytom 642]

I thought that young woman was never found? And no trace of either. All very odd.

 

But back to the topic - buyer beware if you ask me. Maybe the potential buyer is a super gung ho boat guy, a kind of maritime Bear Grylls?

 

Hard to say without a link to the auction Brendong - you haven't said if the vendor is maintaining it could get to the south island or not.

correct never found but some fisherman did get a body in a net around the same time but rolled out.

 

 

 

now as far safety is concerned i might be capable of taking my yacht south ,yes it would make it, but if someone else brought it it and tried and failed would i be liable?I think not as i do not know their capabilities.  The question was,will it make it to south island trader answered Yes.    Being on trademe and a private(not in trade sale) no guarantee act or come back would apply.

[erice 732]

currently on tm an old epirb

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/parts-accessories/safety/auction-1042476688.htm

 

seller says "unsure if works, but told you will need to register it for your boat?"

 

the bigger problem being it doesn't broadcast at 406mhz but the older 235?mhz

 

which is not longer monitored....

 

don't think seller knows

 

is it their responsibility to know?

 

or the buyer's?

 

or all of you? now that you know, to tell the seller 

 

or avoid being named and shamed by the coroner

 

....

 

maybe i should send the seller a message

 

but i don't KNOW it's useless

 

i only THINK it's useless 

[harrytom 642]

under the flare topic I posted a tm seller who is a charter operator selling out of date flares by 3 yrs,have asked tm to remove as this in my opinion dangerous,buyer may need them and do not work, am i correct for telling tm

[erice 732]

^

 

the coroner probably things you're correct

 

the seller probably disagrees

 

but i suspect tm won't pull the ad

 

i see lots of false real estate ads

 

tm only very very rarely remove them

 

bad for business?

 

to difficult to decide who is correct? 

[Freedom GBE 27]

He is selling four flares surely half of them should still work. All my old smoke flares went of at Guy Fawkes.

 

There wouldn't be many FOB fisherman out there with any flares at all. $50 is a bit steep.

[zk-cessnaguy 1]

currently on tm an old epirb

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/parts-accessories/safety/auction-1042476688.htm

 

seller says "unsure if works, but told you will need to register it for your boat?"

 

the bigger problem being it doesn't broadcast at 406mhz but the older 235?mhz

 

which is not longer monitored....

 

don't think seller knows

 

is it their responsibility to know?

 

or the buyer's?

 

or all of you? now that you know, to tell the seller 

 

or avoid being named and shamed by the coroner

 

....

 

maybe i should send the seller a message

 

but i don't KNOW it's useless

 

i only THINK it's useless 

No, you are right. It is useless.

The only possibility of being found using that (assuming the battery is not dead) is if a passing plane is monitoring 121.5 and picks up the transmission. And that's a mighty big if.

[wheels 543]

under the flare topic I posted a tm seller who is a charter operator selling out of date flares by 3 yrs,have asked tm to remove as this in my opinion dangerous,buyer may need them and do not work, am i correct for telling tm

 

I don't think you are allowed to sell flares good or bad. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I am on the understanding that they are controlled explosive devices and you need a license to sell them. Besides, you can't just transport them. They are "hazardous goods" under the rules of controlled explosives.

I think you did good harrytom

I contacted TM once for a product being sold by a seller and TM removed the sale. The Seller was marketing new Solar equipment and this particular item was a grid tie inverter. The thing had a male 3pin plug(which means it would be live and exposed) fitted to the end and the seller described that people could simply just put the plug into any wall plug and the power would then be distributed through the Home and onto the Grid then needed. There were so many wrongs to that, stupid wasn't a strong enough word.

[Dambo 44]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/75369686/Wellington-boatie-stopped-without-engine-radio-or-navigation-equipment

 

Classic example.

[wheels 543]

Dambo, not sure I would sail that around my Bath tub, let alone around the Coast.

[tuffyluffy 76]

There's a bloke on Trademe selling an overhead projector for $450.

 

I'm going to give him a call and tell him he's dreaming