Jump to content

Too old to sail?


Recommended Posts

Yes but it is loud and pirate like.

And I kind of agree with the comments, but in the end Capt. Ron seems to be the one making the call to retire. He

could just quietly set off on a leisurely RNZ , non stop and raise the middle finger as he sets off - but he isn't doing that.

Maybe he knows deep down - that every sailor, eventually, has to step ashore.

 

Good luck Capt Ron Daw.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely if the Gentleman feels he can sail, then he can sail. My Grandfather is 98 and still drives. But driving does not require physical effort like sailing does. So if the guy can raise a sail and haul in a sheet, then who cares how old he is. And there are many oldies from other countries that are sailing around the world with no issues. If this situation is based on just age, then YNZ have no business with making such a decision. But if it is due to the fellow not being physically capable, then different story. But surely the guy can make that decision himself.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure I agree wheels.

Some can sail at advanced age. Some are a hazard to themselves and others on the road or the water!

I met one guy at 84 who had rounded the horn the previous year, and I would have been happy to be on a boat with him. I've met others at 40 who I wouldn't cross a creek with!

We have only one side of the story so far, this guy could be at either end of the spectrum, so you lot don't be too quick to judge.

Anyone remember the rower who left down south 3 x and wAs rescued each time, before they confiscated his boat?

There is lots of negative feeling towards YNZ and enforcement of the rules without members here being fully informed.

In my experience, they don't often actually stop a vessel leaving, and certainly not without some cause.

I have posted a link to this thread to YNZ to see if we get a comment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interestingly, when I read Jon's reply to my post, I caught myself wrongly thinking 'oh, I didn't know the guy was that old...' Which I think could be where the issue lies. Every generation from teenagers up thinks that the older generation are old fuddyduddies, useless, past it. I experienced this recently when my 40 year old son came to visit. As I stepped down off the chair after changing a lightbulb,he rushed forward to hold my arm in case I should fall. I felt like smacking his bottom!

I can imagine a cat 1 inspector viewing a 90 odd year old intending solo sailor with some alarm even though he has apparently just single handed his boat from Stewart Island to Oamaru, thereby demonstrating his ability. And Fish is right - so far the whole story is all just hearsay. But if it is an age perception related issue then I fear it's the thin edge of the wedge. The wedge will get a bit thicker when YNZ decide that everyone over a certain age has to produce a medical certificate and undertake a short voyage in the company of an inspector to prove that he can handle the vessel, and even thicker again when YNZ realises thats too time consuming, so why not just simplify the whole thing by picking an arbitrary age. If you're over it, you don't get to go.

Fight the bureaucrats at every turn!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm thinking that if, instead of a line on trade me, there was an article on the Herald website about a single handed nonagenarian needing a rescue in a southern gale off Bluff, the comments here would be vitriolic about poor decision making of authorities in allowing such recklessness. And that's quite a lot to say in one sentence.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow - didn't think posting this would extract such debate. The only thing that struck me as unacceptable (and the reason for posting) was the inspector's apparent refusal to document his reasons for his decision. Our judicial system allows for judicial review of such a decision - YNZ wouldn't last 5 mins in front of a judge with this conduct. If indeed it is an accurate account of events.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow - didn't think posting this would extract such debate. The only thing that struck me as unacceptable (and the reason for posting) was the inspector's apparent refusal to document his reasons for his decision. Our judicial system allows for judicial review of such a decision - YNZ wouldn't last 5 mins in front of a judge with this conduct. If indeed it is an accurate account of events.

Yeah Scottie, that is the question all right :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Not sure I agree wheels.

Some can sail at advanced age. Some are a hazard to themselves and others on the road or the water!

I met one guy at 84 who had rounded the horn the previous year, and I would have been happy to be on a boat with him. I've met others at 40 who I wouldn't cross a creek with!

 

Sorry, I can't have explained well enough. What you said here was what I was trying to say. To me, if the guy can physically do what needs to be done, which can be hard work on a sailboat, then he should be good to go.

And as Scottie said, it's the not stating in writing that makes this smell fishy. If the Inspector was concerned enough of the guys ability....or lack of it....due to age, then fair enough. But surely he would state that in writing. There is something not proper in this part.

 

 

there was an article on the Herald website about a single handed nonagenarian needing a rescue in a southern gale off Bluff, the comments here would be vitriolic about poor decision making of authorities in allowing such recklessness.

You don't have to be old to be a Sailor in trouble down there though. This guy has the experience to know what the Southern Ocean can throw at a Sailor and I doubt he would consider taking that on if he wasn't physically capable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I have a response from YNZ.

In this case the decision not to provide the cat one was appealed, and that referred it to Maritime NZ. YNZ's decision was upheld, for multiple reasons that had nothing to do with age. The entire report and findings was given to the complainant, but it, nor it's detail is available to this forum. That is fair enough due to privacy concerns.

There are two sides to every story.

Andrew, please correct this if I did not get it quite right! Oh, and thanks for your response. :-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, I have a response from YNZ.

In this case the decision not to provide the cat one was appealed, and that referred it to Maritime NZ. YNZ's decision was upheld, for multiple reasons that had nothing to do with age. The entire report and findings was given to the complainant, but it, nor it's detail is available to this forum. That is fair enough due to privacy concerns.

There are two sides to every story.

Andrew, please correct this if I did not get it quite right! Oh, and thanks for your response. :-)

Gee wiz, golly gosh, that sounds a hell of a lot like the other side of the story...

And much more substantive than one line in a trademe ad.

Riot averted.

Only on the Internet, quick, someone post some photos of cats so we have something else pointless to move onto.

(PS doesn't rigger have some nice fluffy cats?)

Link to post
Share on other sites

So I was thinking $19k for an offshore capable boat sounds like a bargain. Just the life raft is worth $2k.

Which got me looking...

Only two working sails, being a main and furling headsail. Also a tri sail and storms sail, as required for cat 1. Not sure how you set a storm sail on the forestay with a furler. Based on the photos you can't set a bob stay as the dinghy takes the whole foredeck. I would want some redundancy in sails if I were heading to the Falklands via Cape Horn.

 

Only 45 l water tank age, plus containers. Wouldn't want to get thirsty enroute to the Falklands.

75 l fuel, won't be planning on motoring far, fair enough it is a sailing boat. Refer to point above on sail wardrobe.

 

The boat is 40 years old, that's fine, but has it been refitted and everything in good working order?

It's also a small boat for a voyage like that, but that's ok too, has been done before.

 

To me, and this is only my opinion based on limited information, this is an old cheap boat. Someone has bought it with an amazing dream of great adventures. They gone an got a sat phone, AIS, a couple of brightly coloured harnesses and a survival suit and decided they have got all the cat 1 gear, I.e. Ticket the list of boxes for items on board. But the systems, planning, redundancy and capability of the boat is not there. It's still a small 40 year old boat with two sails. Only now it's got a bunch of shiny new 'safety gear' on board to meet cat 1.

 

Is it a well found boat? Or a boat with lots of cat 1 gear on board...

I would want some bombproof sails to take that to the Falklands. I'd ditch the furler and / or set up a minimum of cutter rig or heavy weather / storm sail on a baby stay. And that's just for starters...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fish - yawn - got bored after line 1.

IT - that's just perfect. Sailor exercised his first review, YNZ sent it upstairs (that in itself is worthy of recognition on our forum) and . . . That's pretty much it!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fish, with all respect, your conclusions are of no difference to us all jumping to conclusions. There are many Boats of this size that have achieved Cat 1 and then sailed off into the wild blue yonder. 
And that is part of an inspectors job in ascertaining whether a skipper is capable. It is about managing the shortfalls. All the things you have mentioned are common on smaller boats and can all be overcome. In many respects, being able to do this actually highlights that a skipper is far more Blue Water capable than one on a larger vessel that has all the bells and whistles....and tankage.

I think what this discussion has highlighted, is that the over the top requirements to meet Cat1 and that someone can sail NZ coastal waters (which are far worse than out there in the bigger Ocean) with no minimum requirements what so ever, is frustrating to many Sailors. So when something like the Catalyst for this discussion takes place, we all vent.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...