Too old to sail?

[Island Time 1,235]

Interesting comments IT. Have YNZ updated their information at some time. Because the rules didn't seem quite so accommodating when I looked at Cat1....yikes...14yrs ago.

Yep, several times since then. Latest version here http://www.yachtingnz.org.nz/sites/yachtingnz/files/YNZ%20Safety%20Regulations%201316%20FINAL%20Revised.pdf

Harrytom, yes, in the event of a problem you could be prosecuted. Waivers are not currently available. This is to prevent public expense for unwarranted searches etc. Or at least help to minimise it.

[wheels 543]

Thanks for that IT. I need to change my feelings of them then. I can't believe 14yrs have passed already. Sounds like a lot more common sense has entered their heads.

[Steve Pope 243]

If you google Ron Daw you will find several news articles re him setting off on a circumnavigation in 2013, what happened in-between?

[Guest 000]

Caution - Rant -

 

This post started because most of us were under the (wrong) impression that a Cat 1 cert was withheld due to the applicants age, and were justifiably incensed. Now it becomes apparent the withholding is due to vessel suitability or condition or whatever, and that's OK.

Well I say it's not!

Unfortunately, more than any other nation NZ is awash with government and quasi governmental agencies interfering with our personal freedoms, inventiveness and creativity because 'we know what's best for you.'

Well, bollocks.

Imagine if we could compress New Zealand's history into 'today.' What would the 'we know what's best for you' brigade say about this crazy guy Hillary - he wants to try and reach the pole with a couple of recycled old Fergie 28's that he's tittivated up a bit. What a madman, better put a stop to that. Then we've got to deal with that loony bugger Pearce. He'd reckons he's built some sort of flying contraption, he'll kill himself if we dont put an end to his idiotic schemes, and as for Rutherford, dicking around with fissionable material in his garden shed. What's the country coming to? Why are we so overrun with nutters?

I don't think Capt Ron is a nutter, quite the opposite in fact. He has the ability and the experience and maybe his boat is a bit suspect in a few areas, but I somewhat doubt it. Let the man alone to do what he wants. He has the mental wherewithal to access his situation and know that he's around 90, his strength is diminished along with his balance, his reactions are slower and that there is a distinct possibility that he won't survive the voyage. Well so what. But the 'we know what's best for you' brigade want to save him from this dreadful fate so that he can end his days as a demented old fart sitting in a chair in some grotty resthome where if he's lucky one of the staff will amble over now and again with a tissue and wipe his nose and his arse for him, hopefully in that order.

I don't like the whole cat 1-2-3 thing because the wishes off the few are imposed on the many. Let YNZ be an advisory service only.

And yes, as a result there will be deaths but rather a few crazy adventurous deluded misguided misfits becoming gloriously unstuck on some scheme or other if it means the freedom for the rest of us to live our lives and persue our dreams without interference

[Steve Pope 243]

+1 to Chris's post.

The papers said he was 79 in 2013 so he must be  82 now. 

Also note the reference to the safety regs in KMe's post mentions racing twice, no sign of cruising.

The last time I got cat 1 the inspector (very experienced) asked if I had a SSB, recently checked over by a reputable firm (which once we got out on the briney failed to transmit, but it did receive ok) on showing it to him, his reply was he would have been quite happy if we had only had a good marine receiver for weather forecasts etc. (which we did as well)  as for the med kit, as long as we were happy with what we had, which we based on previous experience, was ok. by him. So there is room to move, the problem appears to be more with the younger inexperienced inspectors, and from which part of the sailing world they come from.

[Island Time 1,235]

Chris, to a large extent I agree with you.

However, that is not the world we live in. The regulations are there to help prevent the NZ public paying for unneeded rescues, not just to protect the sailors. You have this in every other form of your life. You can't speed, even if there is no other traffic, you can't build a house without building consent and inspections, you cant fly a plane, even alone, without a licence and an airworthiness cert. 

Personally I'd like to see a waiver of rescue being able to be used, but I cannot see that in our PC nanny state.

Personal responsibility seems to have fallen by the wayside.

[Fish 0]

All 'they've' done is not issues a certificate, a piece of paper. No one is stopping him going sailing - his boat isn't impounded or physically chained up (like they do in some jurisdictions).

The guys on Bersek had a great time without a piece of paper (before they drowned), and Swirly World had some great adventures, without  requiring various pieces of paper.

So fill your boots.

[Island Time 1,235]

The below quote is from YNZ.

 

Nothing there says it has to be carried.

That part of the rules is dealing with RACING SAILORS, and THEIR eligibility to compete. There are a lot of places in the regs that say a boat MUST CARRY lots of different safety equipment, racing or cruising. I'm not going to quote it, go read the regs ( I know you have KM, and are just trolling...) 

[Guest 000]

[quote name="island time" post="165134" timestamp="1461299085"

Personally I'd like to see a waiver of rescue being able to be used, but I cannot see that in our PC nanny state.

 

There are a whole bunch of regulations regarding compulsory rescue of distressed persons at sea, many of them contradictory and all of which I can't remember properly any more.

But regarding a waiver, when I turn up at a sick persons house in my little yellow truck, one of the things I'm obliged to do is to check whether there is a ' Nil Resus' order in effect, and abide by it. I don't see why a single handed couldn't have something similar. Another interesting aside is that I don't have to report attempted suicide survivors to the police. Assisting suicide is a crime, attempting suicide is not. Now I don't know if that's got anything to do with it or not - I'm just chucking it in for good measure.

I'm all in favour of controls on actions and behaviours that may endanger others, but what I do as a singlehander on my boat is my business.

Cruising is one of the last remaining freedoms in this over regulated country and all the bureaucrats can just darned well keep there interfering fingers out of it!

[wheels 543]

My view is that if they can not make Visiting Boats meet Cat requirements and they don't make vessels sailing coastal waters meet Cat requirements, then why do they need to make it mandatory for Cat 1 if leaving NZ.....or racing for that matter.

[Island Time 1,235]

Ha, the trouble with sailors, and cruisers are worse, is that by nature they are independent people. They will reject any attempt at organisation, regardless of the reason, even if it's to their own benefit. A bit like herding cats... Even to a pet food store!

[harrytom 642]

ok i buy a boat and know nothing  about cat1 or anything what can/would the powers to be do if i just sailed off with no intention of sailing back to nz?have me arrested at next port of call?

As Chrisc writes, i am attempting suicide so no charges?If I want to waiver my  s and r so be it,by the time someone realises i am missing it would be to late to notify authorities?

 

look at Johnny rae just did it!

[Island Time 1,235]

Foreign ports require clearance certificates to clear you in. Without it you'll likely have problems. See my earlier post...

[waikiore 399]

There are a few NZ citizens who left without saying too much in recent years, and were ok up in the pacific, of course they did not enter at Suva or any main port. However when they returned it got a bit tricky -mind we had a few spotters on the coast then, do we still?

One I recall had his yacht on the grids (now gone) at westhaven when the constabulary came to call and dragged him away for questioning, not sure the result -I guess they released him as there was nothing to be gained.

[Island Time 1,235]

It is getting harder and harder to go unnoticed. You'd be surprised at the intel the authorities have. There are some still however that flaunt the law, and I know of one still in an Indonesian jail 3 1/2  years after we left....

Like many things in offshore sailing, you decide where the balance of risk is for you. Personally, as I have said several times in this thread, I find the Cat one regs acceptable, and I try to abide by every countries laws while I am there. Others choose differently, and sometimes pay the price.

Its kind of like heading offshore in a cat rigged boat, with a single sail (ie no spare sail), and no engine. It will most likely be OK, but would you take the risk?

[waikiore 399]

Don't knock cat rigged boats! But yes in case anyone gets the wrong idea I generally agree with the cat one regs and after working with an inspector for years feel that most of it is practical and common sense and wasn't dreamed up by someone in an office in Wellington.

[wheels 543]

I wouldn't take the risk of trying to sneak into a Foreign Country. Most countries are going to extend your holiday season somewhat, in a grey walled cell. You risk losing your Boat as well. Ones that do such a thing are going to be automatically placed on the list of possible Drug runners or terrorist these days.