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So. Time for a new house bank. The old Deka golf cart batteries did not like the summer temperatures in Fiji, but they were 2005 batteries and prior to our ownership had been down to 9 volts ( were at that when we purchased it assuming we would need to replace the batteries immediately) so they did pretty well I guess!.

 

400ah give or take - got room for batteries up to around 310mm long and around 180 wide. Height is not overly limiting. I could space the battery covers up if needed. 

Currently configured as 2 paralleled series pairs of 6V batteries.

 

According to the BEP battery monitor, we very rarely would use 100aH between charges, ( more like 50 ) and we have a dedicated start battery so CCA not overly important. 

 

We do run a Hydraulic AP ( simrad hdl2000 ) and a fairly full suite of electronics. Lighting all LED and the fridge/freezer is run only with the alternators running as it draws somewhere around  100amps. Not for very long though!.

 

Charging is a pair of alternators - 160amp in total, Blamar smart reg and also when plugged into 240v there is a 60a Xantrex truecharge2 maintaining batteries. 

 

So. Looking for new batteries. Options aplenty. Lifeline at $650ish? Hoppecke at $550ish each? Both have a stated design life of 10 years and are rated to 75% DOD. I guess that 10 years and 75% DOD regularly would not be complementary specs, but they are both well regarded but expensive.

 

AA solar have 200aH AGM's for less then $300. No doubt out of China, but where are the $300ish Trojans, Endurants, etc likely to be made? At least the AA solar ones are AGM. How long they would last, however, is anyone's guess.

 

What have people had success with, and what have people not found so great? I realize that how you look after them and  your charging system has far more impact than the brand does, however with the performance we have seen from the Deka batteries I believe that our charging systems are well able to maintain the batteries well.

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One decision to rule out, can your charging system cope with an FLA engine battery and AGM house batteries? If it can't, then that rules out getting AGM for the house bank. (If it can, that still leaves you with a decision to make).

 

Previously we have gone for the cheapest priced battery with the same specifications as the ones we are replacing.

 

Given that you already understand that use and charging regime has a significant impact on battery life, and that you don't want to change your charging systems, that is possibly your best decision basis.

 

Some of these new types and variants of batteries do sound great, but as soon as it is not a straight swap, i.e. you have to start changing controllers etc (on an existing installation) then the economics of an upgrade do fall away quickly.

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Trojans are probably the best value for money FLA you an get. Trojan have two manufacturing plants, California and Georgia(Europe). They are well made, rugged, long lasting with an excellent cycle depth.
Of course there are some other names that are perhaps better, but the price is such that I don't think they have any advantage.

Beware of the AA Solar ones, They have a 10yr warranty only if tey are never discharged below 20% and then you have to send in a printout sowing the cycling History. I have heard of so many complaints now with people arguing warranties with AA.



 

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To add, LiPo is not the way to go for the Cruiser. Too expensive for too short a life span.
A brand new technology is about to be released and I can't wait. I hope it will be available for when our Batteries need replacing. Carbon-Air batteries. Very light weight, extreme discharge with no damage, ultra fast charging, cycle rates anywhere fro 3 to 5 times that of FLA, a fraction of the cost of current technology, small footprint. In fact many of the advantages of LiPo plus some, with none of the disadvantages,

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Fish. The VSR and DC/DC charger should comfortably manage the start battery. It has lasted 6 odd years without any signs of difficulty. Being sealed its hard to measure accurately, but its not been an issue so far.

 

Keen on AGM for several reasons - not in the least that there is no acid to get all over the place, no topping up, a true maintenance free option. Also AGM appear to be a better option for a deep cycle. 

 

IT, I will look into that battery option. 15 years - whats your secret? How are you calculating the remaining capacity? Is it an overall voltage drop with a known Ah load on the system and rest cycles? Its bloody hard to do that when your using the vessel unfortunately, but I can see its the only way to get an accurate read.

 

Wheels, I am a little wary of AA solar in several ways - specially their suggestion on the phone that I would never be able to charge them with an alternator as they need 15.5  volts bulk charge voltage. That is a little higher than any other AGM manufacturer has stated, and is starting to get a bit high for my comfort levels with 12v systems. They are just an option. I am guessing that if I could find out who makes the batteries for them, I could find out a lot more. They only offer a 5 year warranty and that is highly limited. Even Lifeline only offer 5 years if memory serves me correctly? I struggle to justify Lifeline at more than twice the cost of a low cost AGM. Do they really last twice as long? 

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No real secret. Like you I use a BEP batt monitor, with the correct programming and I watch it often. The bank has been discharged to 55% once, but mosty about 70%. I have  2 x 220 AH 12v batts. They are heavy!  Completely sealed though, so no need for a proper battery box, just need to be properly secured down :-) 

Capacity. I used a known load to draw 100 AH out of them over 20 hours. Then let them rest for 3 hours. Then measure the voltage, and using the info I got with them originally - a voltage/state of charge graph - read off remaining capacity. 

Unfortunately, because sometimes I'm stupid, I failed to record where I got them from  :roll: . doh! id be really happy to have these again.:-)

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No real secret. Like you I use a BEP batt monitor, with the correct programming and I watch it often. The bank has been discharged to 55% once, but mosty about 70%. I have  2 x 220 AH 12v batts. They are heavy!  Completely sealed though, so no need for a proper battery box, just need to be properly secured down :-)

Capacity. I used a known load to draw 100 AH out of them over 20 hours. Then let them rest for 3 hours. Then measure the voltage, and using the info I got with them originally - a voltage/state of charge graph - read off remaining capacity. 

Unfortunately, because sometimes I'm stupid, I failed to record where I got them from  :roll: . doh! id be really happy to have these again. :-)

 

IT I guess we both think the same way. I feel that that minimal discharge is one of the main keys. Living attached to a decent smart charger when at the marina and using a smart regulator probably helps no doubt also. We have no real solar on board at the moment. Having to use the motor to run the fridge allows us to keep the battery bank well topped up when not connected to 240v. I am leaning toward a known brand but lower cost AGM. Probably will go with 6v batteries as the battery boxes suit this arrangement well and also its nicer lifting 35Kg batteries as opposed to 65Kg. Have people come across brands that there is a general consensus that they would not touch?

 

I do know that with heavy diesels, a quality brand battery really does make a positive difference - All my tractors will kill a budget  or no name brand in 3 years but a high quality brand will last 10 years or more. I think that surely this must apply to house batteries ( more so than the start battery starting a lightish 2.5l diesel engine ). ts always the first real frost of winter which tells me how many new batteries I will need on the farm for the season!. 

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on vindil i had a flooded cell for start

 

and 2x american made MK ex-mobility cart AGM batteries for house

 

on the mooring they were kept topped up by a 50 watt solar with old marlec regulator

 

they were linked together through a septor battery seperator/charger that allowed shore charging and also allowed the 15v volts from the 60amp alternator to be tweaked down to 14 volts to prevent damaging the AGM batteries

 

http://www.tystor.com/en/products/battery-separator/septor/

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TT, I don't know of any 12V battery that needs 15.5V to fully charge. That is crazy high and I don't know of any charger that will supply that kind of voltage unless in Equalize mode. Which AGM does not need.
Sorry, I didn't realise you wanted AGM. That gives you some great choices. If you want to go top shelf, take a look at Rolls or Crown Industrial. Where all the normal AGM Deep cycles average 4 to say 7 years life, the Rolls Industrial talk in ranges of 15 to 20yrs. Rolls have a top end non industrial that is 7 to 10yrs.
Optima is another very good battery up in that same area of life expectancy. Sonnenshcein is yet another name.

 

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Another to add. 6V Batteries are the go, simply because the plates are often made much more robust. For a Deep cycle, it is plate strength and the gap under the plates that give the battery it's life span. The most common form of failure is plate shorting and this often happens as the sludge builds up under the plates till it touches. I simply would not go near a Battery where a warranty is rated by a depth of discharge of only 20%. Anyway, so a 6V battery like for instance the Trojan T105, is ruffly the same physical size as the 12V battery.The Plates in the 6V are about 60% heavier than the 12V version.

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Here is a great little Vid from Trojan. The info in this is a reason why I go for FLA. Sure the other types off advantages over FLA. But for me, I simply look at best value for money vs life and power return.

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 For a Deep cycle, it is plate strength and the gap under the plates that give the battery it's life span. The most common form of failure is plate shorting and this often happens as the sludge builds up under the plates till it touches

 

also why a wet cell should never be placed on its side or upside down

 

the sludge, fallen lead paste, shorts out the plates

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TT, I don't know of any 12V battery that needs 15.5V to fully charge. That is crazy high and I don't know of any charger that will supply that kind of voltage unless in Equalize mode. Which AGM does not need.

Sorry, I didn't realise you wanted AGM. That gives you some great choices. If you want to go top shelf, take a look at Rolls or Crown Industrial. Where all the normal AGM Deep cycles average 4 to say 7 years life, the Rolls Industrial talk in ranges of 15 to 20yrs. Rolls have a top end non industrial that is 7 to 10yrs.

Optima is another very good battery up in that same area of life expectancy. Sonnenshcein is yet another name.

 

That 15.5v comment was somewhat my point - they appear to not know overly much what they are preaching. Or, they know more than any of the rest of us :D  They appear to know more than what they get written on the side of their batteries also as they state 14.5 to 14.9v bulk according to the images on their website.

 

I like AGM in principal. No spill, no maintenance, can mount in more creative ways ( could free up a lot of space with different mounting options ).  I had looked at Crown but only found FLA?. Optima had been thought about. But pricing is pretty eye watering for the capacity. Also, have only found dual purpose batteries - which to me feels a compromise for the intended purpose.

 

It appears that some manufacturers would rather sell a FLA for deep cycling whereas others are much more keen on their AGM technology for deep cycling. I wonder just how different they really work out to be, and how much is just where profit margins are? 

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if you want to go the sealed battery route these are a pretty good option

http://www.enertecmarinesystems.com/product-category/batteries/hybridgel/

and they may well come out of the same factory as IT's trademe link.

I have them on all 3 banks(house, start and winch) and so far they have been good

Here are the carbon foam batteries Wheels mentioned

http://www.bruceschwab.com/advanced-energy-storage-systems/firefly-energys-oasis-group-31/

Conventional wet batteries are OK as long as you have decent external ventilation - the gases given off during charging are nasty and include hydrogen, stabine and arsine (amongst others). The charge acceptance rate is somewhat less than Gel or AGM batteries which means longer charging intervals to achieve full charge. Finally to get the best life they need to be equalised from time to time.

A good comparison of the different batteries types

https://www.morganscloud.com/2014/01/15/what-battery-type-should-you-buy/

you may have to pay to read

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Woo up needy, Hang about, hold the Phone/Horses, This is it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.bruceschwab.com/advanced-energy-storage-systems/firefly-energys-oasis-group-31/
These are the Carbon Air batteries I was talking about. Carbon Foam is the other name. Drop everything and read up on these things. I HIGHLY recommend you all seriously look at these things.

IT, serious mate, if no one is importing these into NZ yet, you need to get onto it.
In fact, maybe we should all pitch in and between the lot of us, we could bring in a Container of them and get them on the market. Kind of like buying share's in a business. Or something along those lines.

KM, careful readying about these things. They are going to bring tears to your eyes.

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I have 2 Chinese 12v ones, similar to these - AGM/Gel hybrids;

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/caravans-motorhomes/parts-accessories/batteries-inverters/auction-1106355174.htm

15 years and counting. Now down to about 80% of original capacity. They have been great.

 

"Solar batteries are an intricate component for off-grid electrical systems"  I think he means integral.

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Those carbon foam bats sound pretty cool. Carbon foam - mmmmm probably floats too - nice n light for my raft. Nope - 34kg for 100Ahr - that's 50% heavier than one from a swindlery!

What's the go there?

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