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A suitable yacht for offshore and coastal ,,,,help !


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Hi All

I am a newbie to this site and I am reaching out to the wealth of knowledge and experience out here.

Our story. We have a Cavalier 32 for 10 years and its been the greatest unknowingly at the time the best first boat for us. We always felt safe  even sailing upwind, downwind with 3 reefs in the main touching 7.5 knots way passed its hull speed.

We would like to travel further than up and down the east coast of the South Island and spend more time cruising NZ and the Pacific Is.

Our search for a replacement has excluded at this point  prod. boats Bav, Ben and Jea,. We have been looking at Ganley Pacemaker 1986 , Passport 40  1984 , and also the Farr 1220.

They are all very different chalk cheese.

We like the interior space of the Pacemaker and Passport.

I have not sailed on either but  both are heavy displacement i would expect with similar sailing characteristics to our Cavalier 32.

I have recently stumbled upon the Farr 1220  and were attracted to its lay out, all controls to cockpit, and good interior layout. What surprised me was the difference in weight 6500kg to Ganley 12000kg and Passport 11000kg.

I know the Farr 1220 have been offshore and are capable  but feel that perhaps its a racehorse and i am more of a short hand cruising sailer.

We have been looking at yachts up to $150,000 knowing that its a buyers market.

I prefer not to consider importing even there are great buys outside NZ.

Please Help. Open to suggestions !!!!!!!  

  

 

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without having vast experience of the options I'd say if you're really happy with the cav 32 the passport or ganley might be more up your alley.

 

Don't know so much about the ganley but the passports have a reputation for being relatively good sailing boats, and are normally pretty nicely built and tend to already have all the offshore cruising gear.  Just be careful of osmisis - unless it's already been dealt with it's likely you'll have to have it fixed, which costs $$$.  Some also have an issue with the knees around the chainplates, but again, it's often already fixed and if it hasn't it's easy enough to do, just takes $$$.  That said I looked at a nice passport (40 or 41 can't remember which) at bayswater 3 or 4 months ago which was $110k or $120k so would leave you plenty for having that done inside your budget.

 

The farr are a nice boat and more of a racer/cruiser.  Depends what you want at the end of the day.  Still very capable and many have been offshore before, but not the consumate tough offshore boat that the others are, but as long as you manage your sail area as required and don't push too hard there's no reason they can't go anywhere. 

 

Other thing to think about is what each one you look at comes with.  A 1220 that hasn't been offshore recently will likely need a bunch of gear, the passports I've seen tend to come with it all, rafts, watermakers/huge tankage, stern anchors, enclosed cockpits etc that people who've had an NZ based 1220 have never bothered to fit.

 

Have a look/go for a sail on some of each, and see what you like.  At the age they are they're all worth getting surveyed and checked properly to know what you're getting into as it's unusual to find one that's perfect..

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Welcome aboard Danpat! What you have asked is a broad subject, and every owner has a different idea. Where are you based? The boats you have described are two heavy cruisers and one cruiser/racer. I have a Farr phase 4 which is very similar to a 1220. I have sailed her over 30,000 nm over the last 15 years, so I guess you now know what I chose!

The Farr will significantly out perform the other two. If you got into an extreme storm, the other two MAY be more robust, but I have been in very bad conditions in my Farr and never felt that the boat would let us down. Heavier boats can have a less lively motion at sea though.

You spend WAY more time at sea in light weather than storms. The Farr can do 6 knots in 6 knots of breeze, so you can sail more and motor less. IMO a boat that sails well in the light is a critical feature, but some are happy to motor.

If you'd like to spend a weekend sailing on a Farr, give me a call or a pm, and I'm sure we could arrange something here in Auckland.

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Another good way to compare yachts is sailboatdata.com

Here's the Passport 40 http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2366

Search your Cav 32 and then start comparing sail area to displacement, ballast/displacement etc

 

Being able to sail efficiently in light weight tropical air is very different to what you will be used to on the east coast of the SI

 

But the most important thing is just get a boat and do it.

 

This is a great boat I know of http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-1125790535.htm

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Hi Danpat,

 

I've just been through the same decision.  Our difference we were trading down to a smaller boat for offshore work.  I had my sights settled on a Farr 1220 and had one surveyed.  They are great boats but be careful, they are all getting on in age and the ones on the market at the lower end need a fair bit to get them to Cat 1.  

 

I've prepared 3 boats now for Cat 1 and the costs add up very quickly, I'd suggest if you can buy a boat that has been offshore very recently you will in the long run save yourself a bundle.  All that small stuff add's up real fast, and most apart from one on the market have old or original rigging.  

 

There is a nice 1220 for sale in Wellington for 190k that has most Cat 1 gear, you may get it cheaper!  Have a near new engine too.  I've viewed most of the ones on the market and had one of them surveyed so if you need any info pm me.  I'm based in the South Island also. 

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All good points SM.

Almost all kiwi boats are getting old now, which is not, in itself a problem provided they have been properly maintained. Finding one that has is getting harder...

The gear for cat one - or a lot of it - expires - so a boat that's been cat one may or may not be helpful. Personally a good, sound boat with good sails and engine is more important. For cat 1 also standing rigging must be less than 10 years old, and have evidence as such.

You generally won't get away with less than 20 k $ preparing for offshore and getting the cert. Even on a good boat. $50k is not uncommon .

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other yachts to consider around this size include

Mull 40 (K Eade built)

Cav 39

Lidgard Regardless 40-42

Note the Passport and the 1220 have one thing in common, quite small cockpits.

Also with the Passport, be careful of some of the Taiwanese compromises in their construction eg steel fuel tanks which may be at the end of their life and difficult to replace.

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Remember that a lot of your time cruising is at anchor, ( generally  80+% ) so comfortability  is important, Ventilation in the tropics can be critical to whether the cruise is enjoyable or uncomfortable. What works in the South Island won't cut it in the warmer climes. Coming from an engineering background, I struggle to look past Aluminium / steel. Given a good design an alloy boat can and will perform as well as any plastic fantastic. Ganleys have a good cruising rep. A lot of yachts that have been offshore and come on the market advertised as having had cat 1 and done circumnavigations could be in need of a comprehensive refit, not just getting cat 1 again.

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without having vast experience of the options I'd say if you're really happy with the cav 32 the passport or ganley might be more up your alley.

 

Don't know so much about the ganley but the passports have a reputation for being relatively good sailing boats, and are normally pretty nicely built and tend to already have all the offshore cruising gear.  Just be careful of osmisis - unless it's already been dealt with it's likely you'll have to have it fixed, which costs $$$.  Some also have an issue with the knees around the chainplates, but again, it's often already fixed and if it hasn't it's easy enough to do, just takes $$$.  That said I looked at a nice passport (40 or 41 can't remember which) at bayswater 3 or 4 months ago which was $110k or $120k so would leave you plenty for having that done inside your budget.

 

The farr are a nice boat and more of a racer/cruiser.  Depends what you want at the end of the day.  Still very capable and many have been offshore before, but not the consumate tough offshore boat that the others are, but as long as you manage your sail area as required and don't push too hard there's no reason they can't go anywhere. 

 

Other thing to think about is what each one you look at comes with.  A 1220 that hasn't been offshore recently will likely need a bunch of gear, the passports I've seen tend to come with it all, rafts, watermakers/huge tankage, stern anchors, enclosed cockpits etc that people who've had an NZ based 1220 have never bothered to fit.

 

Have a look/go for a sail on some of each, and see what you like.  At the age they are they're all worth getting surveyed and checked properly to know what you're getting into as it's unusual to find one that's perfect..

Hi Razz 

We looked at the Passport in Bayswater Marina for $ 120000 and were informed it has the blisters. This is after having a bottom job done in Asia 10 yrs ago aprox. Its a nice yacht I was not sure of the head configuration with the pullmans berth on port. We did like the workmanship inside. I hear what others are saying about problems with tanks chain plates. Thanks for your thoughts.  :-)

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Welcome aboard Danpat! What you have asked is a broad subject, and every owner has a different idea. Where are you based? The boats you have described are two heavy cruisers and one cruiser/racer. I have a Farr phase 4 which is very similar to a 1220. I have sailed her over 30,000 nm over the last 15 years, so I guess you now know what I chose!

The Farr will significantly out perform the other two. If you got into an extreme storm, the other two MAY be more robust, but I have been in very bad conditions in my Farr and never felt that the boat would let us down. Heavier boats can have a less lively motion at sea though.

You spend WAY more time at sea in light weather than storms. The Farr can do 6 knots in 6 knots of breeze, so you can sail more and motor less. IMO a boat that sails well in the light is a critical feature, but some are happy to motor.

If you'd like to spend a weekend sailing on a Farr, give me a call or a pm, and I'm sure we could arrange something here in Auckland.

Thanks for coming in. We are in Christchurch far from the near tropical North Island.

Thank you for your generous sailing offer. I can appreciate you point on light air sailing. Is there an half way? Mid displacement  Kiwi Built . 

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other yachts to consider around this size include

Mull 40 (K Eade built)

Cav 39

Lidgard Regardless 40-42

Note the Passport and the 1220 have one thing in common, quite small cockpits.

Also with the Passport, be careful of some of the Taiwanese compromises in their construction eg steel fuel tanks which may be at the end of their life and difficult to replace.

Would you consider a Whiting 40   such as     http://www.taurangaboatsales.co.nz/nz-yachts/yachts-50000-100000/whiting-12m   

I believe this one has been in charter for some time. My preference would be for a 2 cabin layout. 

Thank you

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Remember that a lot of your time cruising is at anchor, ( generally  80+% ) so comfortability  is important, Ventilation in the tropics can be critical to whether the cruise is enjoyable or uncomfortable. What works in the South Island won't cut it in the warmer climes. Coming from an engineering background, I struggle to look past Aluminium / steel. Given a good design an alloy boat can and will perform as well as any plastic fantastic. Ganleys have a good cruising rep. A lot of yachts that have been offshore and come on the market advertised as having had cat 1 and done circumnavigations could be in need of a comprehensive refit, not just getting cat 1 again.

Hi Steve

We had a look at a Pacemaker in Whagarei with Vinings  http://www.vinings.co.nz/index.php?mact=V8,cntnt01,viewstock,1&cntnt01stocktype=Marine&cntnt01stocksubtype=Yacht&cntnt01price_low=100001&cntnt01price_high=200000&cntnt01order_by=price&cntnt01view_type=&cntnt01offset=10&cntnt01returnid=78&page=78

The hull is 6 mm below and 5 above waterline. What would be your take on the pros and cons on this.

Its probably on of the first to be build. I can see ventilation being a issue  on the south island but up north. Very small and few portholes This one has come back home from across the pacific 7 years ago. I have not sailed on a steel yacht this size and found it difficult to find information on ganleys. Happy to have a "heavy cruiser' but still able to sail and point like our cavalier 32 which by the way displaces aprox half a pacemaker. This one would need a bit of investment starting with more horsepower currently a Bukh 36. I had a number of chats with broker and could take it for  sail only after the contract is signed. I appreciate your comments.

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Whiting 40s are ok, and several have made offshore voyages. However IMO the fact that they have a single row of keelbolts detracts from their appeal. These and the 1220s are both middle weight NZ designs.

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All good points SM.

Almost all kiwi boats are getting old now, which is not, in itself a problem provided they have been properly maintained. Finding one that has is getting harder...

The gear for cat one - or a lot of it - expires - so a boat that's been cat one may or may not be helpful. Personally a good, sound boat with good sails and engine is more important. For cat 1 also standing rigging must be less than 10 years old, and have evidence as such.

You generally won't get away with less than 20 k $ preparing for offshore and getting the cert. Even on a good boat. $50k is not uncommon .

thank you for that. Yes the cost of a dream. Am I right to assume that any boat that may have been cat one may not be a significant factor as it will need to be replaced. 

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Yes, some of the gear may need replacing. However it does mean that the design passed the stability,structure and feature requirements of cat one, and should have no serious issues getting another. Providing its still in good order of course.

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Another good way to compare yachts is sailboatdata.com

Here's the Passport 40 http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=2366

Search your Cav 32 and then start comparing sail area to displacement, ballast/displacement etc

 

Being able to sail efficiently in light weight tropical air is very different to what you will be used to on the east coast of the SI

 

But the most important thing is just get a boat and do it.

 

This is a great boat I know of http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-1125790535.htm

Hi Jon

I did some digging and found the following 

Passport  

Sail Area/Disp.1:  15.24 Bal./Disp.:  37.77% Disp./Len.:  272.34

Cavalier 32

Sail Area/Disp.1:  13.91 Bal./Disp.:  50.78% Disp./Len.:  290.64

Interpreting these no feels like going into a rabbit hole. The most obvious difference to me is the Bal/Disp. Does  this mean that the cav is a stiffer boat or under canvased by comparison?

Thank you

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...I had a number of chats with broker and could take it for  sail only after the contract is signed. I appreciate your comments.

 

So you're not allowed to go sailing until you buy the thing? OR you mean some other kind of contract?

 

If it's the former, I'd walk away, and not think twice.

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Roughly Sail/Disp will give you a measure of light weather performance - Passport wins.  Ballast / Displ a measure of stiffness - Cav wins. Disp /Length a measure of overall performance - Passport by a small margin, but the Passport will be faster by virtue of being bigger, but both are heavy by today's standards.

 

I really like the Regardless mentioned.

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