Jump to content

A suitable yacht for offshore and coastal ,,,,help !


Recommended Posts

Hi Jon

I did some digging and found the following 

Passport  

 

Sail Area/Disp.1:

 

 15.24

 

Bal./Disp.:

 

 37.77%

 

Disp./Len.:

 

 272.34

Cavalier 32

 

Sail Area/Disp.1:

 

 13.91

 

Bal./Disp.:

 

 50.78%

 

Disp./Len.:

 

 290.64

Interpreting these no feels like going into a rabbit hole. The most obvious difference to me is the Bal/Disp. Does  this mean that the cav is a stiffer boat or under canvased by comparison?

Thank you

I find Sailboat data is a rough guide to compare yachts of similar size, more difficult a 32' against 40'.

It's not always accurate either but a starting point.

Another important thing to consider other than ventilation is stowage, don't limit your search to by a few feet, a 45 footer will have possibly twice the available space of a 40'er.

 

Plus a watermaker is a no brainer to me, not that you can't do it without but finding reasonably clean water can rule your life in the islands, were as with a watermaker your only limited by your draft and dreams. Sure the more gear you have the more things that can go wrong, but they are a lot better than the early ones now.

Jon

Link to post
Share on other sites

I was going to wade through trademe, but I found there are heaps on there and it would take me far too long. But I did come across this stunning example of a 1220, providing the Pics are up to date that is.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-1126636957.htm

I also suggest looking for something that has done a trip outside of NZ. Especially if a Family has gone round the world, simply because they build up all the nicknaks from experience. Like shade canopies and means of hanging the washing and many things you don't normally think of, till you are out there and need to find the answer to shade etc yourself. An offshore vessel will look "busy" or cluttered. Something that has done little will been clean. Getting a boat to Cat1 is expensive if it is "clean", but tends to be just the expired replacements if it has not long come back from somewhere.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep, that looks pretty good BP.

Statistics on boats are only a rough guide. For example displacement/balast ratio can be very misleading - if the balast is in the hull, or in a short keel, you need a lot compared to a bulb on a long fin to achieve the same stiffness.

Test sails. It is normal practice here in NZ to have to sign a purchase agreement, subject to said test sail, before being able to take a boat out. This is to protect the owner and broker from tyre kickers with no intention to purchase. Fair enough IMO.

Link to post
Share on other sites

there is a very tidy 40ft steel Haag about to be listed with Vinings in the next week or so.  I know the current owner and it is well looked after and in very tidy condition.  It a very comfortable yacht

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've a few miles on a Regardless and quite a  few beside as cruising friends. Great boat and as big as you'll get in a 42 footer . JL was way ahead with his beam/ length ratio, almost comparable to a modern boat.

 IIRC  its about 14 ft beam , which is more like what you might expect on a 45+ footer of similar generation.

 Renown is on the market now, and that boat had a quite major refit a few years ago.

 

That boat squid posted looks like an  impressive cruiser.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-1119219062.htm

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for coming in. We are in Christchurch far from the near tropical North Island.

Thank you for your generous sailing offer. I can appreciate you point on light air sailing. Is there an half way? Mid displacement  Kiwi Built . 

Danpat. If your being offered this chance by IT, I would strongly suggest you make a weekend of it and get up to Auckland to go for a sail on a properly set up yacht of a type your looking at. It will give you invaluable experience in deciding what you really want/need. Yes, it will cost to get there, but nothing like the cost of finding you didn't buy the boat type you really need.

 

We have a moderately heavy displacement yacht - a Pearson weighing in at 9.5T for a 45'. So I guess midway in your range although a little larger. Its a ketch, which some frown upon ( although Sir Peter Blake liked them ) but it makes for very easy sailing, with a smaller main which is easier to manage for women or older people. Its not as powerful of a rig as many, but in 10kn winds we can often see above 6kn. In 6kn we are generally motor sailing, often seeing around 7.5kn at about 1300rpm with a fuel burn of around 2lph. We have a general rule of if we drop below 5kn we will motor sail. We hold significant fuel and water, which will slow us a little, adding well over 1T of "ballast" 

 

Prior to this we had a Mummary 40' alloy - and only around 5.5T. It was a little faster in a light breeze for sure, and fuel burn was a little less when motoring, although not as much as we would have expected considering the hull speed was notably slower. Modest tankage although a watermaker assisted with this. Sloop rig.

 

Key points of difference we noted.

At anchor, the mummary was bobbly and wine glasses fell over.

It had considerably less room, both in and out. The cockpit was only comfortable for maybe 4 to relax in at best. Now we can have 8 comfortably in the cockpit, 4 of them lying down. 

The lighter Mummary was a lively sailor in light winds, and tended to be sailed into maybe 2kn lower winds before we would start up the motor. We could get away with lighter anchor, warp, windlass etc. 

In a bay with a bit of a swell, the lighter yacht was far more difficult to climb in or out of the dinghy from due to its lively movement at anchor.

The heavier yacht is considerably more comfortable in a heavy sea, or at anchor, and you can't feel people moving around on it. 

The heavier yacht has far far more stoage space and living space.

The heavier yacht is far quieter - this in part due to being a fully lined glass hull as opposed to a mostly lined alloy hull.

The heavier yacht is warmer - again, due to construction material as opposed to weight!.

 

In short, both have some good advantages but these are always offset with compromises. So going back to the first point in this post, get out on IT with Matt's generous offer and find out if the lighter, faster racer/cruiser is what you want.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So you're not allowed to go sailing until you buy the thing? OR you mean some other kind of contract?

 

If it's the former, I'd walk away, and not think twice.

Thats a pretty standard clause with brokers.

 

An unpleasant one, too. It takes some arguing to back away when you discover under sail that the thing is an absolute pig. Can be done, but the broker will fight you hard. Specially if they are from that nationwide ( and Fiji ) brokerage firm....

Link to post
Share on other sites

9.5 tons ,too tall...that be light man. I think my 45 ft "fast cruiser" ketch is more like 14.

No one calls that porky.heh.

I thought that the production yachts like the bene's etc were several tonne lighter - often as a result of a lighter but deeper keel. We are only 1.6m or thereabouts. Still bumps into the bottom as will anything else if you are pushing things a bit far but at least its not held on by bolts to break off...  That being said, I have never really bothered to look at them much so I may well be a mile off the mark.

 

We get good speed out of her, but there are most certainly faster. We are also definitely cruisers and will do all we can to make for a comfortable and safe passage as opposed to a fast one. Yep, we  are very allergic to breakages, and on the whole have very little damage. In fact, the only things we have had to repair on arrival at the destination port have been cock ups that so called marine professionals have created. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Latest Bene oceanis 45 is 10,545 kg... Draft is 2.27m deep option or 1.75 m shoal option. This is a mid weight cruiser.

Bene First racer cruiser 40ft, 7900 kg...

 

My 1988 Farr Phase 4 40 ft, 5800kg dry, 1.78m draft. Described by Farr as a cruiser racer.... Usually really closer to 8000 kg, 8500 when ready for offshore.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Steve

We had a look at a Pacemaker in Whagarei with Vinings  http://www.vinings.co.nz/index.php?mact=V8,cntnt01,viewstock,1&cntnt01stocktype=Marine&cntnt01stocksubtype=Yacht&cntnt01price_low=100001&cntnt01price_high=200000&cntnt01order_by=price&cntnt01view_type=&cntnt01offset=10&cntnt01returnid=78&page=78

The hull is 6 mm below and 5 above waterline. What would be your take on the pros and cons on this.

Its probably on of the first to be build. I can see ventilation being a issue  on the south island but up north. Very small and few portholes This one has come back home from across the pacific 7 years ago. I have not sailed on a steel yacht this size and found it difficult to find information on ganleys. Happy to have a "heavy cruiser' but still able to sail and point like our cavalier 32 which by the way displaces aprox half a pacemaker. This one would need a bit of investment starting with more horsepower currently a Bukh 36. I had a number of chats with broker and could take it for  sail only after the contract is signed. I appreciate your comments.

 

 

Yep, that looks pretty good BP.

Statistics on boats are only a rough guide. For example displacement/balast ratio can be very misleading - if the balast is in the hull, or in a short keel, you need a lot compared to a bulb on a long fin to achieve the same stiffness.

Test sails. It is normal practice here in NZ to have to sign a purchase agreement, subject to said test sail, before being able to take a boat out. This is to protect the owner and broker from tyre kickers with no intention to purchase. Fair enough IMO.

Fair enough.  But for what reasons can you then refuse to buy? You find that the boat is not close winded enough for your tastes, or sluggish etc. kind of a subjective decision. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fair enough.  But for what reasons can you then refuse to buy? You find that the boat is not close winded enough for your tastes, or sluggish etc. kind of a subjective decision.

 

Indeed, but you can decide you don't want it, if you don't like the way it sails, motion, turning circle, helm weight, whatever. A sea trial is a sea trial.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it appears that I was a bit off the mark on the average weight of modern yachts. I guess that ours is probably closer to 12T when full of gear and fluids... Gets a little more heavy, but, so does every other cruiser!.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Indeed, but you can decide you don't want it, if you don't like the way it sails, motion, turning circle, helm weight, whatever. A sea trial is a sea trial.

One would have thought so. Our experiences have been a little different when it involves some brokers. 

 

Generally its far nicer to do a deal privately as if the owner takes you out for a day sail you get a far better idea for the person and therefore how they will have maintained the yacht etc than you get from a broker who is only there to make a commission.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Understood TT, but the broker isn't in control, even though they may think so! A purchaser has to sign that they are happy with the contract conditions, if not contract is void. Broker can shove it :-) no sign, no contract.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyway, back to the original topic :) I don't want to scare people off looking at yachts that a broker has listed! I just would like to think that the particular company we had problems with might have learnt their lesson by now. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

We like our Regardless design, still have it 12 years on and the ladies like it because of its airy feeling below decks and good cockpit especially when when the transom is opened up. Reasonably quick and comfortable at sea.

1220s are good boats also (did a Noumea race on one) but not that keen on the slopey side decks and twitchy helm. Also not as easy to see out of from down below as the Lidgard. Speed is very similar.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it appears that I was a bit off the mark on the average weight of modern yachts. I guess that ours is probably closer to 12T when full of gear and fluids... Gets a little more heavy, but, so does every other cruiser!.

For a decade or so I believed that our old boat was 7.5 tons because  thats what Trevor at the Okahu bay yard thought." the trailer wheels spin at about 8"

 Conveniently it was also the maximum allowed on the Okahu haulage co cradle. But the reality it was more like 8.5

 

 And I believed what I was told , that our current boat is around 11 .. 11.5 tons, only a NA eyeballed it and told me he thought it was nearer 14. And then I hauled at halfmoon bay and they believe their travel lift is fairly right( notoriously travel lifts are not). It was 14.

 

 I don't know what Pearsons look like , is there a model or year I could google, always interested to see offshore boats.

 

 heyeyyy.... I think we may have met you guys on the water, extra companionway forward of the dodger , right?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Danpat - re the Ganley. I have a good friend who purchased a smaller Ganley from Whangarei, had it surveyed by someone up there and unfortunately it

turned out to be a bucket of rust.

 

I'm not aware of who the surveyor was so cannot/would not name names, and I'm not saying anything about the design - but be careful.

 

If you go steel no matter the design make sure you look very very hard. From what I can gather from my friend repairs are an expensive process, and

finding someone and a place to do the work is problematic.

 

Having said that - the Pacemaker you saw looks pretty impressive.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...