Kiwifish 30 Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 Hi everyone, I'm pretty new to sailing and my wife and kids (7/8yrs) are even greener. We have owned power boats for awhile so not new to the Marine environment. We are going to buy a trailer sailer, please offer some suggestions and help me to clarify what is important in a TS. I am of the belief that big is better - Big=comfort Big=capable Big=longer ownership (won't grow out of it so quick) Big=7.5m & over Big=heavy (I have 3lt diesel Hilux max braked 2250Kg) Big=better.....??? Am I right? Please convince me of otherwise!!! Will us 4 fit and be happy in a smaller package?? I'm a pretty capable person so please don't offer suggestions of absolute learner type boats (i.e buy small to learn first) I would prefer to buy once and buy the right boat and accept a slightly steeper/harder learning curve. My max budget is 15K (rules out Nolex 25 which I think is ideal boat) Thanks in advance for your experienced opinions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
khayyam 68 Posted September 12, 2016 Share Posted September 12, 2016 how long are you planning to be out? e.g. day sailing, overnight, week-long? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifish 30 Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Generally Friday Saturday nights out of Kawakawa Bay (live in Hamilton) perhaps twice a month and occasional week long cruise during school holidays realistically twice a year at the most. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
khayyam 68 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 i would think 25' minimum for 4 people for those periods. not sure that 15k will get you a decent TS in that range, though a quick look at trademe suggests it's not impossible. i'm sure others will weigh in on specific models. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/trailersailer/auction-1125954114.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
too_tall 15 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Negatives of larger are of course towing and storing. Do you have sufficient room to park a 25' yacht on trailer? Is your tow vehicle heavy enough? Most FWD cars would be getting a bit uncomfortable with a 2T plus load on the back. In fact, ( I realize you have a Hilux but will you always have utes? ) I believe that is past the tow rating of most cars, and many light SUV's. The Trojan linked above is around 1500KG hull weight, add in a tandem trailer (maybe 300KG, probably more? ) and some basic gear, provisions, water, anchor and battery, a battery or two and your probably getting well past to 2250Kg. Dare I admit it on here, but we also have a Tristram 781 with an inboard eggbeater, and that thing is rated as being 3250Kg on the trailer, within the tow rating of most current series diesel utes and heavy SUV's. But, put over a weigh bridge with gear on it incl fuel and some water, its 4300Kg.... Weights have a nasty habit of climbing quite sharply once you set up a yacht. That all being said, your hilux should do fine, although may well be above its manufacturers rating. With your hilux, the question may be more "are you happy towing large and heavy trailers?" because not everyone is confident to do so, and many are also not competant in doing so. Maintenance will be a bit more on the larger yacht, but really, on a TS what is there really? No haul out fees, no antifoul, rigging is exceptionally easy to replace, if you ever have to. They will have outboards which as long as not 100 years old, nor of no name Chinese origin, tend to cause little problem. Once you get past that, the larger yacht has few drawbacks in the TS world in my opinion. This comes from someone who feels cramped in most 35'ers so take that with a grain of salt. Remember that LWL gives better hull speed, 6Kn give or take with a 6m LWL. Drop to a 5m LWL and your down approx 10% on that. As a kid I remember many happy times out on a 21' TS in Tauranga or Auckland harbors, so get out and look at some. a 25' of one design may have less usable space than a 22' of another design. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifish 30 Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Maths cooker lol, I saw that I messaged that guy a couple of days ago, He seems to think it weighs about 2000kg. A lot of boat for the price...... You might be right about additional load taking it over weight,I could carry stuff in the tray of ute. I plan to keep it up Kawakawa bay for the summer so wouldn't have to tow very far all that often. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philstar 61 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 This boat is an absolute bargain. Had heaps of work done to her and all new winches etc. Ross 780's are great boats, loads nice to sail than trojans. http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/trailersailer/auction-1158244509.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifish 30 Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Yeh that is a cool looking boat, appears to be a lot sportier. Bit out of my price range unfortunately...... Are you familiar with Trojans? What's the common opinions on them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ed 143 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Make sure you look closely at the trailer on these boats, a lot of boats just go the couple of hundred metres from the boat park to the ramp and back again. If you get caught with a dud, a new trailer for a boat the size you are looking at will be an easy 15K on its own (Just ask my Father in Law, he has the nicest Nolex 22 trailer in Dunedin!) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B 106 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 What is the Ron Given design that you see sailing out of Kawakawa, Joker ? I don't know size but they're going to go ok I would have thought , always seem to when you see em out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marshy 30 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I would go and negotiate with the Ross 780 guy and see if you can pull the price closer to the Trojan price. - In my opinion a far better boat. The outboard age alone is worth the price difference - a new outboard is not a cheap exercise... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Yeh that is a cool looking boat, appears to be a lot sportier. Bit out of my price range unfortunately...... Are you familiar with Trojans? What's the common opinions on them? Trojans are similar if not slightly slower than a Noelex 25 but with a higher SRI (self righting index) Very family friendly as far as TY go If you want performance then get a Ross 780 Here's something to use as a base for comparison http://www.nztya.nz/uploads/113077/files/Rating_Current_from_August_2016_-_Listed_by_Rating.pdf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 What is the Ron Given design that you see sailing out of Kawakawa, Joker ? I don't know size but they're going to go ok I would have thought , always seem to when you see em out. Joker There's a 6.7 that's too small for a family of 4 but they sail really well. And a 8.2 that would be ideal as they are water ballasted so light to tow but twice your budget is what's being asked and more Don't be afraid to offer 25% less than asking price, most TY are hard to sell and getting quite old You should settle between 10 to 15% under asking price or your wife will fall in love with one and you will just buy it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifish 30 Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 I enquired yesterday the Ross 780 owner has his lowest price he will accept listed on TM. Cool boat boat but doesn't come with much and it's over 30 years old.... I agree that trailers are very $$$ , I have a grinder and welder happy to make it a Frankenstein trailer to get a few more years lol. The Noelexs really hold there price, what's behind that?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
weaver_74 0 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Hi Kiwifish - As you're from the Tron and plan to store the boat at Kawakawa Bay can I assume you belong to the Waikato Yacht Squadron? If you don't then it might be worth contacting them and come out for a sail on a bunch of different Trailer Sailers to get an idea of size and sailing behaivour. http://www.waikatoyachtsquadron.org.nz/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kiwifish 30 Posted September 13, 2016 Author Share Posted September 13, 2016 Hi Weaver_74 I'm not a member.....yet, I messengered through FB a few days ago. haven't heard back as yet. Are you a member? That is an excellent idea, I would really like that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
too_tall 15 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 I enquired yesterday the Ross 780 owner has his lowest price he will accept listed on TM. Cool boat boat but doesn't come with much and it's over 30 years old.... I agree that trailers are very $$$ , I have a grinder and welder happy to make it a Frankenstein trailer to get a few more years lol. The Noelexs really hold there price, what's behind that?? A firm offer of $15K may very well swing him. Cash under the sellers nose can make a huge difference ( Realistically, how long will it take to sell at $18.5K? Who knows, and the seller sure does not want to be faffing around for 2 years trying to sell. Very very sage advice from Ed, there are some shocking trailers out there. If your a good engineer, you can quite easily make a moderate trailer good, if its full of rust throughout, no amount of patching will suffice and you are going to have to buy or build another trailer.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hb1849 12 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 Very very sage advice from Ed, there are some shocking trailers out there. If your a good engineer, you can quite easily make a moderate trailer good, if its full of rust throughout, no amount of patching will suffice and you are going to have to buy or build another trailer.. In a lot of ways it quickly becomes easier to build a new frame rather than patching too. I ended up doing this with mine -- Cut out, and tack welded the frame together,then took it to a qualified welder to finish all the structural welds. The whole new braked, tandem axle trailer (for a 22' boat) ended up costing ~$4.5k I think, and it's far better made than an off the shelf one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Battleship 100 Posted September 13, 2016 Share Posted September 13, 2016 If you want to do some sailing and get anywhere save the some more money and buy the Ross boat, If you are happy to motor a lot and or have no deadlines the Trojan is fine. The Ross boat = fun to sail. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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