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Zero emission sailing


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Fair comments Fish. I have a mooring and I regularly sail off and on in various conditions just for fun (not too busy area so no moving "targets") and I agree with this part what you said. To offend the title it doesn't mean you have to throw everything off the boat what invented after the 18th century.

That would be a different challenge and I'm pretty sure people passionate about it.

In theory if you leave your safe port even for short trips you presumably prepared to cope with situations, like  weather changes, any kind of technical difficulties and in theory you would try solve these issues with no (or very little) assistance. Well this is how I do anyway. So a reliable power system includes drive is essential. I said power system because even sailboats operates electronic devices for various tasks navigation entertaining or simply for lighting. I'm not talking about sophisticated racing machines like IMOCA 60 or record breaker multi hulls as they are even worst. So somehow this power needs to be generated and stored  on board and if you have a wind generator already great, solar panels awesome but end of the day everybody (correct me if not) facing with power shortage and have to run the engine for a couple of hours to top up the "power bank".

Is it necessarily an IC engine or worth it to think about something different. I personally think yes and I guess it wouldn't consequently extremely expensive, even the electric drive manufacturers on the market suggest it.

Unfortunately we still talking about thousands so not many people will choose to spend this amount on a "project" instead of new sails or rigging or whatever needs to be done to get CAT 1.

So respect for people rowing a 38 footer  but it is not quite the solution what I was looking for.

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I can understand the concept of throwing everything off the boat that was invented in the last century can be seen as a great leap backwards.

 

To answer the original question, I think a hybrid drive is the only way to go. It gives 80% of the benefit of straight electric drive, but still gives the 100% reliability of getting you home (the safety / emergency factor).

 

The actual electric part of the hybrid drive is very space efficient, looks like a fly wheel housing and about 100mm thick, attaches to the fly wheel / gearbox area of the engine. You then have complete flexibility as to the size of the battery bank, i.e. very small battery bank for getting out of the marina berth only, or larger bank giving a nominal range i.e. 20 nm.

 

The fundamental problem with straight electric drive is "range anxiety", they have limit range. With the hybrid, you can substantially reduce fossil fuel consumption, noise and exhaust fumes, but still have substantial range. It gives the option of cruising only in electric, as a straight EV drive, but if you miss judge the range, or the battery life is actually shorter than the manufacturers claim's, it doesn't wreck your trip.

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Range is always an issue even with IC engine and carry a couple of hundred liters of extra fuel always a hassle. Anyway I'll keep my mind on the possibilities and may start to work with numbers maybe on a rainy day. Luckily no pressure on this so I've got plenty of time. By the way KM how competitors penalized being environmentally friendly I think I missed something. 

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True, but a couple of hundred kg of diesel will get you a couple of hundred nm -- a couple of hundred kg of batteries will get you well under a tenth of that distance. For now. The next leap in battery technology may well even things up.

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Range is always an issue even with IC engine and carry a couple of hundred liters of extra fuel always a hassle. Anyway I'll keep my mind on the possibilities and may start to work with numbers maybe on a rainy day. Luckily no pressure on this so I've got plenty of time. By the way KM how competitors penalized being environmentally friendly I think I missed something. 

Hay nagy592, what context are you thinking in? i.e. Pacific Islands cruising, coastal cruising, live aboard, weekend trips etc.

 

To answer your original question, yes there are yachts that are fully electric. The Barbary tourist yacht on Lake Taupo is, and has been for a long time. I think the key thing for their application is that they do a defined trip so only need a certain known range, and can recharge every night in the marina. It works very well and they make a big deal of having silent, exhaust fume free propulsion on windless days.

 

The most interesting point is that they use very old technology batteries. I need to find the story again to state what type, but they are not the latest and greatest Lithium. I find this point fascinating, as most people expect it is the latest technology that is the most suitable.

 

By way of example,  I recently purchased a hybrid car. A key purchasing question was the cost of replacing the battery, having heard Pruis batteries cost circa $5k. The battery in my Honda costs $800 to replace. Why? its a nickel hydride battery (i.e. old generation) not the latest and greatest Lithium. Car works great, is saving me 50% of the previous running cost of my 1.6 l commuter. The nickel hydride technology worked fine in power tools for some time, and at the price point, enabled me to get into a hybrid car without going for the top shelf latest and greatest.

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Reading this thread one could assume no emission boats are something novel. Sorry but No they aren't, they are the standard and have been for centuries. The world was discovered and populated by zero emission sail yachts. Power yachts are a new age thing, just like Ebola and AIDS  :twisted:  ;-)

 

The only hassles I usually get is sailing into/out of marinas or on/off the anchor. I've done that as long as I remember so it's no biggie but It has caused many to grizzle I'm about to cause the end of days or so you'd think from the whinging.

KM I covered that point earlier in the thread, referring to Slocum et al. The general consensus to that was "why go through out everything that has been invented in the last century", but yes, I do agree with you.

 

The OP did clarify by re-stating the question - "Are there any viable alternatives to an Internal Combustion Engine"

 

PS, Don't go telling anyone I actually agree with you, I have a reputation to protect.

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By way of example,  I recently purchased a hybrid car. A key purchasing question was the cost of replacing the battery, having heard Pruis batteries cost circa $5k. The battery in my Honda costs $800 to replace.

So you finally decided to go for Honda (I guess Hybrid) because of the terrifying stories about the Prius replacement battery price. Respect.

We went through on the same thing a about two years ago when my son decided to go hybrid. We ended up with a very cheap ex taxi. 400k+in the clock...  

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I wouldn't want to give the impression I'm a closet greenie or anything, it was a purely cost based economic decision. I wasn't actually after a hybrid went I started looking, but am very pleased with it now.

My 1.6 l commuter was about to die due to old age (and a rather clunky gearbox). I needed the least cost replacement to flog up and down the motorway for getting to work.

I always thought my 1.6 l commuter was as modest and frugal on fuel consumption as I could get. Typically about 12c/km petrol cost or 7l/100 km.

The hybrid is now doing consistently less than 5 l / 100 km, costing circa 8c/km.

What I save in petrol (on what was already a frugal commuter) now pays for the interest costs of owning the newer hybrid. It also helped that the hybrid came with a 5 yr warranty on the battery and electric motor part. Hybrid is 2011 with 44k on the clock.

 

The fact of the matter is its cheaper / makes economic sense for me to drive this hybrid. If it were a Prius with the substantially more expensive to replace Lithium batteries, then no chance. I'd be driving the old technology internal combustion engine still.

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Good on you. You are probably the first honest hybrid owner I ever met. No mist and dust about saving the planet etc... that is a side effect.

Anyway the same thing propels me to think about electric drive on boat (even hybrid). As I have not much experience with extended cruising that's why I couldn't imagine to motor a few hundred miles so over the theory is this a real issue? In coastal conditions again my experience is limited, but our local coast (Lyttelton-Banks peninsula) I'm confident 20 mile is well enough to get away from any trouble (of course without being crazy).

I'm possibly wrong but I'm somewhere between the skipper who takes a spare engine for the trip just in case and KM who coping with his vessel on the traditional way...with success. I agree to use of artificial force to move the boat forward but not replacing the main "engine" the sails.. In this perspective the 20 mile range is reasonable.  

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