Marina eWof requirements

[Island Time 1,235]

Nah, you can have an extension cord. So long as you don't connect to shore power, you are fine. You won't have a marina plug on your extension lead anyway, right. The key is if you plug anytime into shore power, maybe even have that ability, you need an ewof.

The inverter can be dangerous. Should be fused on dc side, and have appropriate breaker on ac side. Case should be connected to ground.

[marinheiro 352]

Smithy, as I mentioned previously AS3004.2 is only referenced in the Regs for Prescribed Electrical Work, ie greater than 50V.

On the DC side it is only a guideline, not mandatory.

[smithy09 50]

Smithy, as I mentioned previously AS3004.2 is only referenced in the Regs for Prescribed Electrical Work, ie greater than 50V.

On the DC side it is only a guideline, not mandatory.

If that is the case, which standard are we complying with for the ewof? NZ 3000 doesn't cover it and the check list is pretty clear!

[marinheiro 352]

See Clause 60 of the regs which references both AS3000 & AS3004.2, noting reference to "conectable installation".

Note also clause 3, where the regulations do not apply, which says pleasure craft other than those with connectable installations. 

The C.10 check list from AS 3004.2 is an installation check list, C.11 is the testing checklist and basically deals with the AC side and earthing/bonding

 

In respect of retrospectivity C.3 of AS3004.2 states

 

NOTE: Existing installations will have been designed and installed to conform to legislative

requirements applicable at the time of their design and erection and may have been subsequently repaired using methods that were acceptable when the installation was originally installed. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe provided that the installation and repair methods satisfy the fundamental safety principles of Part 1 of AS/NZS 3000:2007.

 

So the installation check list can only be applied to new installations under the current standard and similarly for the testing requirements.

 

[ScottiE 174]

So the law is here

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/64.0/DLM2763501.html

 

The codes of practice or standards cited in the legislation are here

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2010/0036/64.0/DLM2763782.html

 

Just read this and figure it out for yourself!

[Myjane 40]

I think it's not a bad idear if a boat is plugged in long term it protects boat around them if fire etc etc , caravan she not have the same kind of thing to safe guard others ,problems Is it will swerl over to the 12 volt guys charging there battery off the mains for a couple of days maybe basically I think the whole thing is a load of crap , the power is supplied to the boat , how we use it on the end of a lead is our biz the fuse is there to stop any kind of fault out of the lead or am I being a bit of a rebble

[Dtwo 157]

Oh Dear God.  Who the f*ck thought up this can of worms and was anyone conscious.   Seems like a "Weekend at Bernies".

 

Will let you know Monday night.

[DrWatson 375]

KM, i don't think you should give up on the inverter so easily, fusing is easy. I have these, between the panels and the charger, between the charger and the battery, and between the battery and the inverter.

 

They feel really cool to use - quite industrial - but you'd wanna pull them out before the water hits your inverter if you're sinking.

 

I'll install the same on my new build, because I want a 240v AC circuit, and I already have a spare 24v/240v 1600watt sinewave inverter.

 

Which inverter did you get KM? And which batteries? Sounds like you have a crap load of power available - I have 220Ah at 24v.

 

Sounds like you have 400Ah at 12V? (2x 200 12 v?)

[DrWatson 375]

As far as I can tell, the current version is from 2014, with an amendment in July 2015. I started reading it again yesterday, but it put me to sleep in less than an hour. There are a fair number of hard to follow rules so far (up to page 39 of about 80).

For example: batteries must be installed in a manner they are open to free air. If this is impractical they must be in a sealed box and have mechanical ventilation, even if batteries are sealed type. Vent duct must lead straight to open air with bends no more than 45 deg. Minimum exhaust vent rate (qv) for forced ventilation is calculated as follows:

Qv=0.006 x number of Cells x charging current in amps. So a yacht with a 100 amp alternator, one 12v house and one 12v start battery =12 cells, so 7.2 litres/ second or 432 litres /minute. System must be designed so if fan fails, charger(s) are stopped.

Natural ventilation size of inlet and outlet (A) = 100 x Qv. so for the above example, 100 x 7.2 = 720cm2, or a 26.8 x 26.8 square duct or 30cm diameter round one....

Cable outlets shall be air tight glands. Fuses must be used within 200mm of batteries on every circuit except engine start. Fuses can't be in battery box. Fuses can be more than 200mm from battery terminal, but not more than 1.8m, only if cables are in sheathing conduit or cable trunking the entire way from battery terminal to circuit protector (don't forget the air tight gland though?).

 

The above is not word for word, although I'm looking at the standard as I write this, the examples are mine, and based on a Wright 10, as I ponder how to get ventilation out of under a saloon seat, into open air, with less than 45deg bends, and without compromising watertightness of a sailing boat.... Also, the batteries need to be vented during any charging, even solar, so need to run a vent fan during solar charging? Albeit a smaller one than for engine alternator, however no one will fit multiple different fans will they....Wouldnt be hard to go backwards there... Also considering the complexity of putting a cutout on all charging sources if the fan fails... sounds messy.

 

So how does that work if you have LiPO4 batteries?

 

The venting is to prevent explosion risk from H2 liberation. I'm not sure that's a big deal for Li Batteries...

[smithy09 50]

See Clause 60 of the regs which references both AS3000 & AS3004.2, noting reference to "conectable installation".

Note also clause 3, where the regulations do not apply, which says pleasure craft other than those with connectable installations. 

The C.10 check list from AS 3004.2 is an installation check list, C.11 is the testing checklist and basically deals with the AC side and earthing/bonding

 

In respect of retrospectivity C.3 of AS3004.2 states

 

NOTE: Existing installations will have been designed and installed to conform to legislative

requirements applicable at the time of their design and erection and may have been subsequently repaired using methods that were acceptable when the installation was originally installed. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe provided that the installation and repair methods satisfy the fundamental safety principles of Part 1 of AS/NZS 3000:2007.

 

So the installation check list can only be applied to new installations under the current standard and similarly for the testing requirements.

This is quite an interpretation. C10 reads:

C10.1 General

This section details requirements for basic visual inspection of an electrical installation to

confirm that the installation remains in good repair and does not exhibit indications of

misuse or damage. This inspection does not include any electrical testing.

 

This would seem to indicate ongoing visual inspection, not just new installations.

 

My main problem is that a lot of us just run an extension cord with a battery charger and dehumidifier running off it. I can understand the need for testing the lead, but I do not understand the need for an eWOF and therefore the need for the boat to have an AC earth point and all that that entails. How does this make the boat safe? Many of us have fitted the portable connection boxes sold by the marinas a few years ago as well. These add an RCD/MCB between the socket and the marina connection which also has an RCD. Surely this is sufficient to cover both short circuit faults and faults that somehow make the body of the appliance live??

 

It seems that much is left to interpretation..

[marinheiro 352]

Smithy,

that is how standards work, they are not applied or retrospective unless prescribed by legislation, and in the case of AS 3004.2 it is only referenced by the regulations for new conectable installations

The preamble in C10 is in relation to new installations covered by this revision of the standard. 

 

Furthermore the preface of AS 2004.2 (2008) further acknowlleges that it only covers new installations and is not retrospective, and note the reference to legislation

 

This Standard may be applied through legislative requirement, from a date to be set by the

relevant regulating authority. If work on an installation was commenced before publication of this edition, the relevant regulatory authority or electricity distributor may grant permission for the installation to be completed under AS/NZS 3004:2002.

[smithy09 50]

Smithy,

that is how standards work, they are not applied or retrospective unless prescribed by legislation, and in the case of AS 3004.2 it is only referenced by the regulations for new conectable installations

The preamble in C10 is in relation to new installations covered by this revision of the standard. 

 

Furthermore the preface of AS 2004.2 (2008) further acknowlleges that it only covers new installations and is not retrospective, and note the reference to legislation

 

This Standard may be applied through legislative requirement, from a date to be set by the

relevant regulating authority. If work on an installation was commenced before publication of this edition, the relevant regulatory authority or electricity distributor may grant permission for the installation to be completed under AS/NZS 3004:2002.

Are you an electrical inspector marinheiro? You seem very well informed.

 

If what you are saying is the case, ie that the standards do not apply 100% to existing installations, then what guidelines are the inspectors following? I just don't get it. If I want an ewof, does my boat need to be externally earthed to the seawater, or is the electrical earth connected to the marina via the lead sufficient? Do all exposed metal parts need to be earthed? As there is nothing hard wired, just a battery charger and a dehumifier running off a portable box with an RCD/MCB in it, how is this installation unsafe?

 

It all seems a bit like YNZ Cat 2 inspections, in that it really depends on who the inspector is, not how safe the boat is..

[Island Time 1,235]

The inspectors seem to all have a different take on this, that's the issue.

 

Yes, you have to have ground to seawater. A keelbolt or the engine MAY suffice depending on the boat.

So, you'd have to add (at least) an ac panel with breaker, ac hot bus, neutral bus and ground/earth connection to dc system and water. IMO the ground should include a galvanic isolator, but this is not essential in the regs.

If you have an inverter, it's more complex, as the inverter output needs to go to the same ac system, but only if there is no shore power, and of course the batt charger cannot run off the inverter!

I'm looking at doing this myself on Island Time. I reckon about $1500 for the parts, + inspection for ewof at the end. That's using a BEP ac panel with switchable ac supply, and a galvanic isolator.

[smithy09 50]

Hi IT. OK, but how does this make my system safer? Why do I need an earth to seawater? Why do I need to connect my DC bus negative to ground. What earthly use is this?

[Island Time 1,235]

None. It's the marina owners forcing this....

[wheels 543]

The inspectors seem to all have a different take on this, that's the issue.

 

And this is what annoys me the most. I see it in several fields as well. There should either be a clearly stated law that is not left to interpretation, or there should be a get together of all inspectors for a discussion on what the rules mean.

 

 

If you have an inverter, it's more complex, as the inverter output needs to go to the same ac system, but only if there is no shore power, and of course the batt charger cannot run off the inverter!

Yep, so I do this with a 3 position rotary switch that has multiple poles that can be linked in which ever way you want to configure it.

The 3 positions are of course, Shore Power- Inverter- Genset. One switch set is used to isolate the Charger when the Inverter is running the system.

[marinheiro 352]

Commenting a few ítems above,

The requirement for the AC grounding connection is a requirement of 3004.2 and the US ABYC standards (and I expect the equivalent ISO standard), it is there as a safety requirement in case a phase wire short coricuits and comes in contact with the metallic case of an appliance, it carries this current safely to "ground" ie the sea. It is the same as the ground stake every house has. A galvanic isolator (or better and isolating transformer) is essential in the shore power connection earth wire to keep you electrically isolated from other boats connected to shore power.

It is not widely known that the ground wire must be the same size as the supply wires, this makes life rather difficult with the inverter where you can be talking 50 or 70mm2 cables.

Matt - you need to add a couple of ELCB's to your shopping list, one adjacent to the shorepower connection and another on the inverter output.

The AC installation must be such that the AC power is always synchronised or isolated, ie if you have 2 sources they must be perfectly synchronised eg multiple genrators or generator in parallel with shore power supply. Fortunately we do not have this on our boats and therefore we either follow the protocol Wheels noted, ie only one source at a time (you can this with the slide lockouts on AC switchboards), or run the shorepower AC thru the inverter to the switchboard, as my Mastervolt inverter charger does so. I have an incoming switchboard upstream of the inverter which feeds the inverter and HWC element, the HWC element only runs off shorepower.

One other point is that if you are using and on-board power source ie generator or inverter, then this source must connect the neutral and earth. This should be done automatically but there is some equipment around, especially el-cheapo inverters that do not do so.

The issue with running a power lead into the boat for a singel appliance arises because 3004.2 does not contemplate it. The electrical reg I previously referenced for hand held power tolos should be sufficient but it is not explicit hence the problem. This is further exacerbated by the Electrical Regulations assigning significant authority to Worksafe.

This lack of definition is what leaves us open to all this interpretation by inspectors, who at the end of the day want to ensure their proverbials are covered.

At Sandspit the previous inspector who was frequenting the marina was causing mayhem on the DC side so after some research an inspector was identified who followed the intent of the regs and 3004.2, not try and stretch it out.

Smithy - I am a mechanical engineer with alot of experience in industrial and mining electrical installations. When I upgraded my yacht's electrical systems I did alot of research and discussed requirements with the electricians, did all the DC work myself and all the AC grunt work(running cables and mounting equipment), with the licensed electrician making the connections and testing. So I would not represent myself as an expert, just an above average level of knowledge in this área.

[wheels 543]

Yep as above in marineheiro's comment, my Invert/charger also has an internal automatic change over switch relay. You can also buy them as separate units and one I know of is "Blue Sea" (which are not actually a marine company). I no longer have shore power at all. Dawn has the Generator start panel in the galley and pushes the button, the Generator starts and the Inverter automatically senses the new input voltage and switches over to the input, the charger automatically comes on and is charging the batteries. When she is finished with what ever it is that Woman do in the Galley , she pushes stop and the Genny stops, the Inverter notes the loss of input, turns the charger off and switches back to Inverter. 

I obviously need to get a hold of the new regs and read up on the changes. When this all came out originally, it was scary in regards to the requirements of the DC side and all the inspectors I came across said they were not interested in inspecting that side. So it's nice to see that is no longer required.

[Dtwo 157]

Righto, had the inspector from Electra Safe visit today.  Before we got on the boat, I told him that I had no AC equipment installed, to which his reply was "well you don't need an EWOF then".  However, then we got talking about battery chargers and how the power was connected to the charger.  He said that an extension cord coming into the boat was no longer legal and that I must install:

- a plug box in a suitable location, that will accept the "round pin" electrical plugs (female on the boat, obviously)

- hard wired appropriate cabling from there to a (suggested) double plug inside the boat

- that circuit to have a specific type of RCD protector (I don't recall the exact acronym, think it was 16A anyway)

- the AC wiring to be routed separately from the DC

 

I can then plug the battery charger in to that, and have an additional plug to run the vacuum cleaner off, or computer etc.

 

The in-boat electrical work must have a Code of Compliance cert, then be inspected by an inspector for the EWOF.

 

He made two points:

- these regulations are constantly being "improved"

- the regulations vary depending on what equipment is used in what location, as in outside/inside, close to sink, able to be accessed easily etc etc.

 

He wasn't interested in the 12V at all.

 

Anyone know a reasonable sparky who knows boats?

[Island Time 1,235]

Seems like that is not right to me. New wiring for an AC system must comply with the regs, which does require a ground to seawater...

more contrary info....