Are we rich pricks?

[DrWatson 374]

I'm not sure if this is where to post this but whatever.

 

Many people and especially media seem to think that only "rich pricks" own yachts, and us sailors also believe that the politicians see us as "rich targets" who can afford to cough up for the growing range of fees and regs.

 

We're all sure (or maybe sure) that this is the general perception, but some solid data to base our wild assumptions on would perhaps be extremely beneficial,  in just the same way that those stereotypes of us that the general public have might be best dispelled by the same data.

 

After all, to counter alternative facts, one must have the real facts...

 

So median income in NZ in June 2014 was about $45,800.

 

So is anyone keen to add, anonymously of course, a little data to the questions above? I mean, I doubt that they're the best worded or conceived survey questions, but you gotta start somewhere, right?

 

ideally we'd have a poll where the data were all linked together (i.e. boat type, annual income, boat cost, annual spend etc etc, but it's not possible here) - 

 

I just think that some solid data in the area could go a long way to supporting our arguments - or adjusting our own expectations.

 

It would be nice if new and old members and also less vocal members woudl add input here.

[Black Panther 1,581]

Personal income or household income. My wife makes money and owns half the boat?

[bazzathemammoth 37]

I own 1/3 of a boat, maybe put in a option for partial ownership? Also maybe a net worth indication? Great idea for a thread btw.

[Black Panther 1,581]

True about net worth, mine is way out of line with income, and about to become more so.

[DrWatson 374]

Personal income or household income. My wife makes money and owns half the boat?

Yeah I considered whether it should be personal or household. I think any indication there is warranted, as in your case the income is "shared" as is the boat - unless she's spending your money to maintain her part of the boat . It's the boat/income ratio that matters, I guess.

[madyottie 82]

Interesting, I've never really thought of sailing costs relating to income. What I have noticed is that the size of boat I can afford to run has decreased in inverse proportion to the size of my family. Also that operating costs are higher in proportion to purchase price than I remember.

[DrWatson 374]

I own 1/3 of a boat, maybe put in a option for partial ownership? Also maybe a net worth indication? Great idea for a thread btw.

 

That'd be one option, but ALso you could just put down what your share is worth? 

 

I did also wonder about net worth, but started running out of options - can only have 3 poll questions. Also, net worth (unless you spend that capital) is not usually used to fund your sailing except in the initial outlay. Generally more expensive (i.e. bigger) boats cost more to run per year.

 

 

Thanks, I was a bit unsure about starting it, because i got a feeling that most people like to stay quiet about their income, and that's understandable.

 

But i do think it's important demographic information, adn valuable in planning and defending our pass time.

[madyottie 82]

A net worth vs sailing equation could be fun. I'd be at about 5% for tri, laser, and trailer yacht I think.

 

Net worth is a funny thing tho, anyone owning a property in auckland for the last few years is likely a paper millionaire, but they often can't afford to pay the bills each month.

[bazzathemammoth 37]

That'd be one option, but ALso you could just put down what your share is worth?

 

I did also wonder about net worth, but started running out of options - can only have 3 poll questions. Also, net worth (unless you spend that capital) is not usually used to fund your sailing except in the initial outlay. Generally more expensive (i.e. bigger) boats cost more to run per year.

 

 

Thanks, I was a bit unsure about starting it, because i got a feeling that most people like to stay quiet about their income, and that's understandable.

 

But i do think it's important demographic information, adn valuable in planning and defending our pass time.

I put down what my share is worth, and my share of running costs relative to income. As a 1 income family 8% represents a large chunk of our disposable income.

 

I think that net worth is a valuable measure because how much a person is worth is directly related to how much of a rich prick they are imo.

 

The whole issue is really difficult to wade thru. I make more than most, but my wife is a stay at home mum so our household income is in the bottom 1/3.

 

However we own a house in tauranga so I feel richer than some of my friends who make more than us but are renting, especially since we bought it before everything went insane.

 

It might be paper money but having a basic home that is ours and 50% equity is a very comforting thing. Does all that make us rich pricks? I feel rich but I know many who are richer than us who claim to be not very well off.

 

Also semi unrelated but I'm one of those lazy, entitled, millenials who has worked bloody hard to get to this point.

[clareb 1]

Working out the % of my income spent on the boat has put a bit of a damper on the evening...

[Island Time 1,220]

indeed ClareB, sometimes its better just not to add it up - then you don’t have to hide it from any significant other!!

[DrWatson 374]

Now that it's not 1am I can come back to this with some more thought.

 

Yeah some good points here. KM I agree that sailing is a personal choice, and how do we measure the cost of that personal choice?

 

Perhaps better questions would be:

 

1. How much $ value do you spend per year on your sailing? 
2. How much of your income (household) is that in %?
3. What type of sailing? (dinghy, sport dinghy, trailer sailer, small keeler, midrange keeler (under 35ft) larger ship, rocket ship, schooner.
4. Do you have your own yacht?
5. Do you own your own home?
6. How much, as a % of income, do you spend on rent/mortgage?
7. How many dependants rely upon that household income?
8. What's your disposable income? (i.e. after rent/mortgage, food, energy,clothes and kids)

 

In general I think it's interesting to have data on net worth, but it is mostly just on paper, and varies wildly across the country. Mostly people don't spend from their net worth on the running costs of their sailing program - unless you're planning a complete change whereby you liquidate everything and sail off over the horizon. But net worth essentially figures into "what's your boat worth/how flash is your boat".

[DrWatson 374]

The software maxes out at three independent questions. I can set up a survey monkey to include these various points, and link one response to another so I can do some better analyses- maintaining anonymity, of course.

 

We can gauge real objective answers like financial situation against the subjective and emotive decision making factors.

 

Purchase price /decisions are historical factors, rather than a current snapshot of situation.

[tuffyluffy 76]

indeed ClareB, sometimes its better just not to add it up - then you don’t have to hide it from any significant other!!

 

Im glad Im not the only one, I think the term is 'plausible deniability' ie if you dont know the number and the missus asks, without telling a lie you can honestly state you don't know.

[DrWatson 374]

OK a more comprehensive survey for those who can be arsed filling in the details again.... No names of boats or identifying features please, and limited to 100 participants -but over 50 people filled in the little poll, so go for it. 

 

 

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/9NKFVKP

 

 

 

KM, I was limited to 10 Q so couldn't include your suggestions - but think I might start another survey if there is interest.

 

Can only be filled in once form each device, but can be edited after you've competed it, so if you suddenly remember you own a flying machine, you can go back and add it.

[AJ Oliver 154]

I think it best that ferriners do not take the survey lest we distort the

results - our costs and expenses can be quite different than yours. 

 

But I am following your discussion with interest. 

[Dambo 44]

There is some money in this pool huh?

[zk-cessnaguy 1]

Wowww, if the results after a smallish number are representative 'rich pricks' looks to be a very valid term.... or you lot are, I'm way down the lists.

 

But the monstrous size of an Auckland mortgage cancels out any hint of rich-prickishness... oh that and a student loan.

[DrWatson 374]

But the monstrous size of an Auckland mortgage cancels out any hint of rich-prickishness... oh that and a student loan.

Yeah I should have included a location option to try to account for the auckland effect. It's always difficult when designing surveys, to be sure you ask the right questions, and sometimes you only see these things as the information starts to come in. looking at where were' at at the moment, I could have been smarter with answer choices, but I think it will give a clear enough picture.

 

I'm making a little summary of the longer survey now, we have 24 respondents on the longer survey at the moment, and a healthy 62 respondents on the short survey at the top of this page.

 

People can still do the longer survey and even go back and correct or complete the inputs later.

[Black Panther 1,581]

Are we rich pricks?

 

yes.