What happens next?

[wheels 543]

Cheers Clipper.

I didn't get to see the races like many of you did. Just short glimpses on News etc. But where i am coming from is that it didn't seem quite as exciting as when the crews on the monos are so hugely involved in driving those Monos, where it seemed all to be a rather lazy sail for the Multis. And that could be compounded by the share size of the course and the size of the boats. You don't get the close ups of boat and crew working hard.

And as KM said, no duals, no ruff weather even. The multis are afraid to go out in the ruff. It's like why lots of people go watch Demo derbies. We want the excitment of a bit of argy bargy

I know that the Race is for the top prize, but the money to get it comes from the sponsors and the sponsors have to see a result for their money they tossed in and that result is ones like us seeing their name in lights.....or on the sails etc in this case. If people don't enjoy watching the sport, then the sponsor won't get their name out there and so won't throw in the money, so the teams can't build the boat and we have no of few challenger.

[markm 30]

I think every so often you need a DoG match or equivalent, an event with a blank page and the opportunity to see what's possible, it would be nice to see more than just two teams playing in that space but it really only happens when there's no mutual consent so only two teams ever get to play. Don't need it every time though, about every 20 years seems about right.

 

Obviously we can't stay with 90ft anything goes formula, just too expensive, even by AC standards.

 

Let's hope though they move on a bit from the IACC class, would be nice to see a more open rule and something a bit closer to the type of boat us mortals get to play with, in their way the ultra-narrowIACC boats with 85% of their weight in the keels are as far removed from regular sailing as this years multis were.

 

And to suggest something truly radical, how about something they are expected to sail even if it's blowing 25-30kts?

[ScottiE 174]

its really a question of what the 'AC community' as RC puts it really want to race in. The AC25's were intentionally designed not to plane downwind to keep the racing tight - its always been considered a match racing event after all. But where that argument falls down is the fact that its not a one design boat thats used - due I think to the 'being built at home' requirement of the deed. So I'm not sure I agree with your suggestion that they'll go to a more open rule.

RC et. al. tried to set up the World Sailing League in 75ft one design cats (with full length nacelle) and I would imagine that's probably still pretty close to his heart. The LV series is proving to be a hit - also run (as close as possible) as a one design event - so I if LE is absolutely true to his convictions (and not another greedy billionaire!) then I wonder if we don't infact see some sort of hybrid of all of these things where boats are a little closer in design. One things for certain - if they hang onto the match racing theme then planing boats are out - including multis - very sad.

[MrWolf 0]

Cheers Clipper.

I didn't get to see the races like many of you did. Just short glimpses on News etc. But where i am coming from is that it didn't seem quite as exciting as when the crews on the monos are so hugely involved in driving those Monos, where it seemed all to be a rather lazy sail for the Multis. And that could be compounded by the share size of the course and the size of the boats. You don't get the close ups of boat and crew working hard.

And as KM said, no duals, no ruff weather even. The multis are afraid to go out in the ruff. It's like why lots of people go watch Demo derbies. We want the excitment of a bit of argy bargy

I know that the Race is for the top prize, but the money to get it comes from the sponsors and the sponsors have to see a result for their money they tossed in and that result is ones like us seeing their name in lights.....or on the sails etc in this case. If people don't enjoy watching the sport, then the sponsor won't get their name out there and so won't throw in the money, so the teams can't build the boat and we have no of few challenger.

 

The reason you didn't see any crew working hard is because the cheating swiss prick bribed the ISAF to change the rules so that the boats could have motors.

 

You would have been fully satisfied with BMWO in her original configuration with 4x grinder pedestals !

[Guest]

I disagree a little. I think Scottie nailed it earlier elsewhere, there are lots of opportunities for one design match racing elsewhere. Why not let this be a technology race and cut it loose?

Trying to be both means you compromise both and end up with an abortion.

[Guest]

Box rule and wider wind limits.

 

Ladies and Gents, The 34th AC will be held in XXX. The rules are max X long by X wide, no hight or depth limits and the races will start in 30kts and won't be called off unless it's constantly over that during the 30min leading up to the gun. The rules are Std ISAF. No other Rules or Regs to worry about. Go to it and we'll see you there in 12 months time to go hard out

 

Set the beam limit just a bit too wide for a usual mono but knot quite enough for a usual multi. Make them work a bit and we might see so real cunning stuff or maybe a monomaran that actually works.

 

Lets just see what the best of the best can come up with using the same rules as the rest of the world has too. From the design team to the water boy.

[Clipper 343]

Perfect.

I'd love to see that (with the exception of the beam restriction)

minmum wind 5 knots, max wind 30 knots (average, not peak)

Max length 60ft

NO ENGINES

[Guest]

No engines absolutely, I forgot that bit.

 

The beam idea was to try and push boundaries a bit more. To small and we get monos, too wide and it's multis so thinking if it was right in the 'cross-over' area we may see a mix or something new altogether. If they are supposed to be the best of the best with big budgets let's see what they can do with that. I suspect some of the boats would be right weirdos but you just never know what goodness they could come up with. And it adds another level of excitement to it all.

[Guest]

No one has tried foils?

[markm 30]

Probably find you need a couple of minimums just to avoid people turning up with oversized windsurfers or something.

 

Also a 'you measure in' two weeks before you race and you don't change' rule to avoid sillyness like fitting different keels and rigs each day depending on the forecast.

[Fogg 427]

Someone send a link of this thread to LE....

[Guest]

Done

[Guest]

[i don't care what they race as long as it doesn't turn into a straight line speed trial like we have just watched. I just don't see massive multis giving us tacking duals and the close 1/4's biffo match racing is all about. Interesting to note neither does Brad or Russell. If they raced in those Ishare 40 Cat thingies I would suggest the 'race' element of the event would have been far superior in every way and we would have seen some true match racing. And at speeds to satisfy those who can't get passed the 'only fast is good' concept.

I have to agree with the Volvo 40's ( Cat thingies) the fact that they do hand stands and fall over makes for exciting viewing.

 

How ever since the loss of the twelve meter boats we really haven't had great taking duels none of the current crop of AC class boat ever put in 18 tacks up wind. After the dial up the rest of the race was pretty tame unless someone broke a mast or got out a bucket. If they go back to the past I hope some one scatters grass seed on the race track so that we have something exciting to watch. ( Oh! what about lawn mower racing?)

[ScottiE 174]

How ever since the loss of the twelve meter boats we really haven't had great taking duels none of the current crop of AC class boat ever put in 18 tacks up wind.

 

now there's a man putting his colours before his (half) mast!

[rigger 47]

I'm a bit like Knot Me in what I think should happen, max LOA, max beam, max draft to be limited by the berth the boat goes to would allow for drop keels / foils

max avg wind speed to start race in 30kn

 

Any thoughts on the courses to be sailed, W/L, passage etc?????

 

to keep costs down:

- once a boat is measured in only repairs can be done, ie break a boom and you have to repair it,

- no spares for booms, poles, masts

- perhaps a limit on the number of sails in the sail wardrobe,

Then again maybe not

 

to the multi guys would a narrow beam multi with water ballast be a possibility?

[Guest]

Best of 10 races which are a alternating combo of W/L, triangles and trapezoids. Why knot mix the tracks up as well to minimise narrowing designs to one specific track. Also more course variety the more exciting it may get.

 

That was about the only thing R2 had we all didn't already know from R1. Can the Cat take the Tri on a triangle course or knot? Apparently knot as it panned out.

 

If someone wanted to really up the excitement and interest level all over there is a multitude of options.

 

Agree with Offender, recently the 'match racing' element hasn't been as crash hot as it once was and it's become very speed orientated. We can see speed and faster speed than the 2 DOG boats, anytime we like but a tight as match race swapping paint we don't.... Y88's and S34's excepted

 

Again, if this event and sailors are supposedly the cream of the yachting crop it's about time they lived up to that lofty moniker. I would suggest if you take away the special boats used, there's been bugger all seen you can't see with the MRX's off Westhaven or happens very often elsewhere worldwide.

[DrWatson 374]

Let's really mix it up....

 

Max 20 sailors in a team.

 

firstly a 6 race series in 18 ft skiffs, fleet racing.

 

next, a 6 race series in 40ft cats, again fleet racing,

 

and a six race series in open 60s volvo style boats, fleet, at least one 24h race...

 

Mostly short courses with more than two legs (W/L and Triangles). Keeps the action close to the spectator fleet, and gives plenty of manoeuvering and work for the crews allowing them plenty of opportunity to show off their polish and skills.

 

tally up the points,

 

take the top 4 teams, then go again, match race styles,

 

the defender races in all races and has no right of entry into the finals.

 

mix up the courses,

 

simple box rules for the boats.... LOA, beam, weight (and number of hulls...)

 

races to start in 5-30 knts....

 

to finish, EACH team member is put in an Opti (foiling? ) and as a teams race, whip around the marina, finishing at the pier furtherest form the club house, then leg it back to the bar - and then the first team to finish 12 bottles of rum takes home the silver.

 

In this format I'm sure we could put together a crew.org challenge... :)

[Clipper 343]

We can see speed and faster speed than the 2 DOG boats, anytime we like

Sorry, can we? Bollocks. What is faster (around a short course) than the dog boats?

Probably nothing sailpowered. I'd say they arethe 2 fastest course racing boats EVER?

[Guest]

I like Dr w's thought, how about no engines, max crew of x, no other design limits?

[wheels 543]

And to build on that further. Perhaps we are looking at the wrong part. Maybe the Venue, Time of year (for weather) and course layout/design should be what is set first. Then the Teams build the boat that they think is going to be fastest on that course. It may or may not be a Multi/Mono