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Anyone actually read a bit about the origin of the AC? My take on it is that pre AC was originally about sailors not boats, my navy is better than your navy type thing. But then once the America won it (Its a yacht Ernesto, not a country and i dont know of many boats that have their own court system...), it became more about the machine. So tough call but i thought that no kites and the whole furl, gybe, unfurl was rather boring, but the boats were awesome. So a balance is needed..! Exciting really, to see what they come up with! :thumbup:

 

I think the rule should be in place for say, the next 3-5 cups, then its looked at again. Give the teams some time to develop etc but not get down to tiny alterations like the version5.

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I have always thought that the AC was about a kind of racing that can't be seen anywhere else. So for me fast multi's are out. We've already got them. Now don't go getting precious I'm not slagging off the multi's - far from it, but as a few of you have alluded, they're already providing the world with spectacular racing, so why we would do more of the same? For me they're out. If we look at the history of the AC (which is an historical event and in which its history forms the basis for its existance including the DoG matches) the races were sailed in large J boats. Bout a hundred feet long more or less. The history of the AC is what sets it apart. Lets stick to the formula but keep it relevant to today. In my mind about the only good thing EB ever said was the concept of the 90 odd ft fast monos, no engines, and a race course with a reaching leg in it. (I know of another visionary yacht club which uses Olympic courses - fantastic!)

 

On another note, I have no desire to see EB at the AC again, he's a sore loser, a cheat and a megalomaniac. So I wouldn't mind if any entry associated with him is refused. He didn't provide anything like what DC did. DC lied , cheated, bullied his way through a few cups too, but in the end he won for a long time because he was bloody good, so he added value in a strange way.

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My 10c. Nothing very surprising here.

 

1. Absolute speed isn't much use as a spectator draw in sailing. Anyone who wants to see something going fast will watch F1. Only sailors have some appreciation that doing 30kph on the water is different from 30kph driving to the dairy. And bigger boats look smoother and "slower" anyway - if you want the visual spectacle of speed you need small skiffs etc.

 

2. The looser, and newer, the box rule, the worse the competition. AC32 ('07) v AC33 ('10) is the obvious comparison; a mature rule produced close racing, a completely new box rule produced a technological spectacle, where only gear failure would have put the result in doubt.

 

3. The broader the weather window, the worse the competition. A broad weather window turns into a design gamble on what the conditions will be - a light air boat racing a heavy air boat in a matchrace will be all about what wind is blowing. This problem is exacerbated if the overall competition has a weather trend such that the successfull challenger has to sail in all conditions and the defender can target the conditions expected at the end of the regatta. [This sucks but I think it's true].

 

4. The America's cup is not a one-design race. However the desire for something resembling competitive racing needs to be balanced against the concerns above.

 

5. Completely open design competitions produce perverse and unuseful things. Instead of improving rigging, hull construction, keel design, vast amounts of money will be spent on paint technology, solid wings, and engines. An F1 comparison again - they make some efforts to stop an arms race in tyre design and bizarre aerodynamics, instead allowing energy recovery and other things that might be useful. Rules can be set up so that developments might have some relevance to top end club racers.

 

6. Constraint on rules - and maturity of the rule - can also reduce the cost of participation. [This is tricky as there's always somewhere to spend that extra dollar]

 

7. The AC is (i) a defenders/challenger's trophy, where the defender gets to host the event, (ii) a competition between nations and (iii) match racing. You can't do away with this stuff. Even though (ii) is a shadow of what it used to be, at least with the trophy in the US we'll be racing in the US [touch wood].

 

 

Conclusions?

 

1. Don't do anything with the overall regatta format. AC32 was great, the pre-regatta Acts were a great idea. And AC34 will be raced in the defender's country, maybe even in the defending club's harbour. [OK, not sure where the GGYC bar is...]

 

2. Make the boats the same size as AC32 (V5?), or a little smaller. (Less cost. Absolute speed not so important. Possibly more tacks and more manouvres?)

 

3. Don't worry about making the weather window broader, postpone races and deal with it. Ideally race in a place where the window can be set fairly breezy!

 

4. Rule out anything that wouldn't see the light of day in high end club racing events - motors for lines & rigging, solid sails etc.

 

5. Change the design rule so that the boats can more closely resemble today's grand prix yachts, with planing shaped hulls etc. This will be a big design hop, ideally there would be smaller increments going forwards.

 

As for 1 vs 2 vs 3 hulls, will leave that to you guys.

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We can see speed and faster speed than the 2 DOG boats, anytime we like

Sorry, can we? Bollocks. What is faster (around a short course) than the dog boats?

Probably nothing sailpowered. I'd say they arethe 2 fastest course racing boats EVER?

 

Around a short, if you call 20ml legs short, course those 2 would have to be right up there speed wise, I would agree. Actual short course stuff would be interesting as they tack so slow they may struggle. It'd be damn interesting to see them on a Squaddy off the bays course to see if their extra speed could off-set the very downspeed manoeuvres. Losing 4-450mts in a tack would suggest they maybe able to be taken by some boats in Akl on a course like that, even some monos if they were having a good day. {cue fevered rants from one-eyed multi owners about now :) }

 

The comment was more meant to say the argument we must have speed isn't valid in relation to the AC and if it was to become even more a pure speed race those 2 boats would both be losers unless they seriously pulled finger as there are faster boats floating today, given their conditions.

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Losing 4-450mts in a tack would suggest they maybe able to be taken by some boats in Akl on a course like that, even some monos if they were having a good day. {cue fevered rants from one-eyed multi owners about now :)

 

I'll bite - but with a quote back at ya that suggests that BMWO could simply point itself at a windward mark and thump any lead swinging tub down here without so much as a hint of a tack!

 

Dirk said . . .

"Last week it was quite windy and we had to stop because there was a little problem. We went head to wind and I held both traveller lines tight so that the thing didn’t blow across and take people out and the wing flopped on the other tack because the camber arm was still loose and all of a sudden we were doing 7 or 8 knots almost head to wind. James [spithill] was impressed! I was going – ‘I don’t know if I can repeat that again’! It was purely accidental that the flow reconnected. So that was pretty cool. But it was really windy. There are things like that where you go ‘wow, this thing is really cool’.”

 

In 20+ knot winds they stopped for lunch on one occasion with the camber fully off and the slot closed and the traveller lines loose and they were still trundling along at 8-9 knots at 20deg true!"

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Woowww I didn't know it could sail head to wind that quickish, I have wondered just how close they could go and at what speeds. The previous observation was made knot knowing that, which would obviously change things if correct.

 

And just for you multi types a fact that maybe of interest to you - knot all monos swing lead ;)

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