Speeding fines on the water

[Fish 0]

Fish I am happy to be proven wrong but from what I understand the Pilot boat can go where he pleases, he doesnt have to stay in the shipping channel and therefore your comment of it 'cutting the corner' is a load of complete of bollocks. If he is allowed to take a shorter route, the same as anyone else, why wouldnt he?

 

But like I said, happy to be proved wrong

 

Lets wait for the report, whenever that may be

Absolutely Veladare,

If I'm correct, the law states a vessel must do less than 5 knts within 200 m of the shore, and a few other things. In this context, the Pilot boat is legally allowed to be doing 30 or 40 knts 205 m off of Narrowneck Beach.

No law broken there. (There is a whole lot of other elements about the safe operation of a vessel we could argue about, but those aren't my point)

 

But somehow some guy got decapitated going for a swim...

 

If the Pilot boat was doing everything within the law, and the guy still got decapitated, maybe the laws need some tweaking. That sort of thing is usually the responsibility of a coronial inquiry.

 

I don't even know if there is going to be a coronial inquiry.

 

There are so many ifs about this its not funny. If the guy was swimming to Rangitoto and got hit actually in the shipping lane, then he was suicidal. I know from experience how hard it is to see a kayak in moderate chop from a yacht doing 6 knts. It would be near impossible seeing a wet-suit clad swimmer from any launch / commercial boat I would have thought, if they weren't in a regular swimming area like a beach, and didn't have a safety boat with them.

 

Lets just for a moment remove the fact that the boat involved was  POAL Pilot boat. Lets say this was a 60ft Riveria with an owner / driver fanging it around North Head at 30 knts and took out a swimmer off Narrowneck Beach. If there was a complete vacuum of information as to the circumstances of that, would you start asking questions or wanting to know how the same fatality could be avoided in the future?

[southernman 73]

Lets just for a moment remove the fact that the boat involved was  POAL Pilot boat. Lets say this was a 60ft Riveria with an owner / driver fanging it around North Head at 30 knts and took out a swimmer off Narrowneck Beach. If there was a complete vacuum of information as to the circumstances of that, would you start asking questions or wanting to know how the same fatality could be avoided in the future?

 

 

Agree 100% there would be a lynching mob from this web site alone looking for his blood.  

[Deep Purple 511]

Is Knot-me flying seaplanes now?

 

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/raw-video-civil-aviation-authority-investigates-after-seaplane-cruises-under-auckland-harbour-bridge

[El Toro 97]

Im taking issue with your 'cutting the corner' bit...and he lost part of his leg, not head....facts seem to be getting lost for effect...and what I read most in what you say saying for effect is.... bash the port.

 

Lets wait for the report

[Fish 0]

You are more than welcome to take issue with anything you want. That is your prerogative.

There are varying reports as to whether the whole leg was lost or 'part of'. Either way the guy is dead, by traumatic injuries that fit the definition of decapitation.

 

This aspect of the thread started where several posters were voicing their support for Harbour Masters enforcing speed limits etc. One poster made the comment that something must be done before someone gets killed, in reference to poor and unsafe behaviors driving boats.

 

I pointed out that someone already has been killed, it was a commercial boat that was involved, and more so the POAL pilot boat.

 

Now, you say "lets wait for the report", what report is that exactly, who is producing it and when will we be able to read it? Cause like I say, it currently looks like the whole thing is being conveniently kept quiet, stalled, delayed so that people forget, aka swept under the carpet.

 

Now, in this story, the Police seem to think:

It is likely he then swum out across Cheltenham Beach, towards North Head, with the intention of coming to shore again at Devonport.

 

No suggestion he was swimming to Rangi or in the shipping channel. In that case, it is only right to question how he was killed, the location, speed and other factors as to the operation of the boat. Given the Police have publicly stated they believe this was his course, then my comment about the Pilot Boat 'cutting the corner' is reasonably well founded.

 

Its just such a shame we don't have descent journalism in NZ to get to the bottom of things when there is vested interests by the powers that be.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/92135644/police-seek-witnesses-into-death-of-auckland-swimmer-leslie-gelberger

[Dtwo 157]

 Either way the guy is dead, by traumatic injuries that fit the definition of decapitation.

 

 

 

Errr, no it doesn't.  Decapitation is the complete separation of the head from the body. Thanks Wikipedia.

 

I do agree with the fact the guy is dead.  One hopes that the investigation is thorough, accurate and doesn't result in a finding that he was decapitated....

[Fish 0]

Errr, no it doesn't.  Decapitation is the complete separation of the head from the body. Thanks Wikipedia.

 

I do agree with the fact the guy is dead.  One hopes that the investigation is thorough, accurate and doesn't result in a finding that he was decapitated....

 

OK, on the definition of decapitation I accept I am wrong.

 

That would be why I'm an engineer and not an English teacher....

[Fish 0]

You must have some solid evidence that shows the pilot boat was involved to make the statements you are making. Can you post it please.

 

 

Not yet...... but I do fully intend to have a go flying under it one day. I have measured and only last Sunday an aircraft was seen flying very low level down the harbour from Westpark way. One could easily have assumed it was lining up to have a go or possibly sussing the potential. No idea who that was though and being so low it was probable below radar, maybe it had turned it transponder to stand by.... just guessing there of course

 

That video doesn't look good. More than once I've seen them taking off by the bridge and thought "Farrrrkkkkk, that's bloody close"

 

 

 

 

Due to NZ's rugby culture I, like most, know players, supporters and fans of it. Due to NZ's boating culture I, like most, know players, supporters and fans of it. Due to NZ's ice cream culture I, like most, know players, users and fans of it. Due to NZ's body shaming culture I, like most, know people who do it and are recipients of it. Due to NZ's tall poppy syndrome culture I, like most, know people who do it, those who like it and those that don't. Due to NZ's racist culture I, like most know people who are racists, those who aren't and those who think it's both good and bad. Due to NZ's 'she'll be right its OK to txt and drive' culture I, like most, know people (aka f**king arseholes) who do it, those who despise it and those who have been a victim of it (puts his hand up). Due to NZ's relaxed dress culture I, like most, know people who do dress relaxed all the time as well as many who do like to dress up a bit.

 

But I do not know a single soul who is a rapist, not a single soul who talks about rape a lot, not a single soul who thinks rape or anything close is acceptable. Not a single soul.

 

That post does make me wonder if the poster is the rapist or thinks rape is acceptable or is his comment about 50% of humanity really mean 50% of the posters family and friends?? Or is the poster simply rabbiting the man haters. but as hard as I look I can't see anything that suggest NZ has a culture or anything even close to being one, that thinks rape or anything even close is acceptable.

 

Posters name removed as I genuinely do think he is simply suffering a seriously bad case of the 'Overly PC's' rather than thinks rape or anything like that is acceptable in any form. I would also suggest NZ and humanity in general would be far better served if the posters effort went into Suicide prevention, that is a massive and genuine real problem in NZ.

 

To reply to the first part of your post:

Originally, it was a poster on here that wanted to know why the POAL Pilot boat was on the hard with police taking photos of it. That was before there was any public knowledge of the missing swimmer. There was also some supposition that the guys leg was found in the intake of the Pilot boat, but now I guess I'm just going for sulatious rumours.

 

Other than that its just all the media reports of the involvement of the Pilot boat. Reports like this one with the very media trained POAL CEO making statements like:

At the time of Gelberger's death, Ports of Auckland chief executive Tony Gibson confirmed an investigation was underway into the actions of the crew on one of its aluminium pilot boats

 

and

 

"I am extremely upset that one of our pilot boats may have been involved in the death of a swimmer," he said.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/99464379/police-will-not-lay-charges-over-death-of-ocean-swimmer-leslie-gelberger

 

But considering that particular story was about not laying criminal charges, which have a high evidential bar to pass, and not a report into what actually happened, the fact that there are no facts or actual definitive statements doesn't surprise me.

I go back to the 'swept under the rug bit'.

 

Anyway KM, have you read the rest of your post? What the f*ck are you talking about? I think you've got a couple of threads mixed up for a starter....

You are definitely not an English teacher.

[Fish 0]

http://crew.org.nz/forum/index.php/topic/14370-pilot-boat/

 

Here you go, check out the very first post by Waikore...

 

"What has the new pilot boat hit ? Quick haul out and a lot of Police taking photos..."

[Fish 0]

...and he lost part of his leg, not head....facts seem to be getting lost for effect...and what I read most in what you say saying for effect is.... bash the port.

 

Passengers on a commuter ferry made a grisly discovery yesterday when they found a man's body, missing a leg, floating near a popular North Shore beach.

Police believe the body may belong to a swimmer reported missing off Narrow Neck Beach on Thursday night and are investigating whether he was hit by a boat.

Police last night moved to allay fears the man had been attacked by a shark.

"Police do not believe that a shark has been involved in the man's death," a police spokeswoman told the Weekend Herald last night.

 

"However, we are investigating the potential involvement of a boat, which has been identified, located and examined."

A man who was onboard a 360 Discovery Cruises passenger ferry said someone on the vessel spotted the body about two miles off the coast of Mairangi Bay around 4pm yesterday.

The witness told the Weekend Herald he thought the man may have been the victim of a shark attack because his right leg was missing up to his waist.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11842914

[Kevin McCready 83]

I'm very sad to hear about the young woman's suicide.

 

Since you've raised the issue again you appear to want a serious discussion. So let's have it without insults and assumptions.

 

My earlier comment certainly didn't accuse you of being a rapist, so I let your previous outburst slide.

 

People, including women, can be part of Rape Culture. Here are some ideas about Rape Culture:

 

1. Rape Culture is much broader than the act of rape.

2. Rape Culture is any culture which creates an environment where rape is more likely.

3. Rape Culture is any culture which disses women by the mere fact that they are women.

4. Rape Culture is any culture which says women are subservient to men's desires.

5. Rape Culture is any culture where a women is afraid to go about her business without being harassed.

 

Here's a link that might promote more understanding:

http://kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced

[Kevin McCready 83]

What percentage of women feel the same way as Kate?

[Fish 0]

What percentage of women feel the same way as Kate?

So the blog you linked to was written in 2009, and the lady lives in New York.

It certainly isn't current, and isn't across this current #mytoo trend.

There are some basic errors in it. The vast majority of women are sexual assaulted by people they already know. The blog assumes that only strangers are rapists. It then immediately correlates a sexual assault to rape, which are also fundamentally different.

 

Now on the statement that should wont go out alone after dark, she lives in New York, I wouldn't go out alone there either, and I'm one of these highly dangerous white males.

 

I'm sorry but this blog is out of date, irrelevant and the premise is based on a fundamental error.

 

In short any arguement supported by it is, (I'm trying to think of an appropriate term), bollocks.

[DrWatson 374]

Just going to ask here what people consider to constitute harassment, and what people consider to be sexual harassment?

 

Defining what harassment is can be quite enlightening to many people, as can be defining what isn't harassment can also be enlightening.

 

Additionally, when someone says they "feel" harassed, we have to look at why that is in the context of our definitions above. 

 

Harassment is about feeling (the receiver's perception) as much as it is about intent (the deliverer's perception).

 

 

Many guys are scared that their genuine attempts at a compliment may be misconstrued or interpreted as sexual harassment. If a woman responded simply that she doesn't appreciate such complements, a lot of guys would or might feel sheepish and embarrassed, but may also appreciate being told frankly that that's how it makes someone feel. But there are other guys who won't take that well and may react in a threatening manner. It's impossible for a woman to know which guy she's interacting with (unless she knows him well).  Being unsure of what the response maybe, means a woman is threatened by the possibility of a violent reaction. 

 

Additionally, there are guys who can't figure out that making a "compliment" about a woman's breasts or butt, is often perceived as harassment and rightly so.

 

Context - a lot of it is about context.  

 

 

 

A friend of mine was accused of sexual harassment and non-contact rape after he opened a door for a girl he didn't know. That's all he did, no lewd comment, no winky winky eye action, just simple courtesy. 

[wheels 543]

Of course there is a rape culture out there. But no all Men are part of it. Just like we have a Binge Drinking Culture, but not all Binge drink.
There is a very recent incident down here over NY's which I think sums up the situation nicely. It was a big Music Festival in the Nelson region. The Woman attendee's were encouraged to go Topless. There were Body Painting available for those that wanted a kind of in between. There were some Guys running around with their Genitals in Glitter apparently. One young lady had been groped at a club the week before and she had been quite distressed by the situation, that she determined that the next time a guy ever does that, she would punch him. At this festival, the young lady and her friend were walking across the area when this guy gets up and runs up behind her and then grabs her breast and then quickly runs off. She turned and went back to this guy that had then sat down again and walked up to him and thumped him a couple of times across the Head. I also imagine she had some strong words to say as well.
The thing is, no one has the right to do that to another person. Imagine the result if some dude ran up and grab a guys genitals because they were all glittered up. We hear (although not as often as it used to be) Men comment "She was asking to be rapped because of the skimpy clothes she was wearing". It does not matter what anyone wears or doesn't wear at all even, it is not an invite to rape or attack.
On the other hand, the ones like Doc's mate above is the other extreme and totally ridiculous and destroys trust and courtesy.

[SanFran 12]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11977913

 

Wow, close call. Only a matter of time before it happens here and someone dies.

[Chloe 7]

Regards speeding tickets in boats. If the speeder has a road licence and one is given a ticket for speeding in your boat, you also get brownie points against your licence. 

 

I was informed of this a couple of years ago by a well known boating person from warkworth. No car was used in the offence, and he found out when he received the notice to walk for 3 months, as he had exceeded his allotment with the last offence. "exceeding the 5 knot rule in a controlled waterway".

 

Now there's something to think about.

[SanFran 12]

Just like Aussi. Loose your licence for d.I.c on the water also means loss of drivers licence on land. Fact.

[Dagwood 57]

Not defending muppets but that seems fundamentally unjust. If you have a licence you can loose it, it you don't - no equivalent penalty... 

[harrytom 642]

From another site

 

I was T-boned by a yacht this arvo by rakino,
if not for my quick thinking fishing mate, we could be on the news tomorrow.
We anchored up not far the rock at rakino channel,
there were lots of yacht mooring up, coming in and out as usual.
Not long after, my fisho mate saw this yacht coming straight to us at low speed. 
My first reaction was standing on top of the boat to get skipper attention but I couldn't see anybody so I started yelling and screaming.
As the yacht getting closer, my "not so useless after all" fishing mate asked us to stand by the side of the boat and said try to push the boat away/sideway as the yacht hitting us.
Everything happened so quickly but 3 of us managed push it off by just a scratch on my outboard cawling and some sore elbow.
Finally yacht skipper popped his head out at the back and keep saying sorry and apologizing.
I'm very tempted to report the incident to harbour master but at the same time I'm glad nobody was hurt and I learn few thing new today.

 

 

http://www.fishing.net.nz/forum/topic126849.html