Wha's your level of interest

[Guest]

Watching the media response to the "big announcement" it seems there is more interest from the non sailing couch potato public than from sailors???????????

[Guest]

I'm actually pretty disappointed. A one percent difference in performance will mean a horizon job. First one to the gust wins. I used to really enjoy the tacking duels, can't see that happening. Forget dial ups. Less about tactics and more about design/trim. I guess I'm a bit of a purist and while this might appeal to the less informed spectators(and lets face it, they are the majority) I won't be glued to it trying to learn off the big boys any more.

[Farrari 4]

Luke warm and getting colder would be my description.

 

Not that I am anti multi hull but I just can't relate to them at the moment. I'm sure they will be fast and the wipe outs will be spectacular but I would equate it to watching a Formula One race with only two entries.

 

Bring on the Volvo and I hope TNZ keep competing in the Med cup ......

 

Perhaps if I owned a multi hull it would be different.

[khayyam 68]

if there are wingsail ac45s racing in akl at some point my level of interest is way up there.

[Clipper 343]

I'm actually pretty disappointed. A one percent difference in performance will mean a horizon job. First one to the gust wins. I used to really enjoy the tacking duels, can't see that happening. Forget dial ups. Less about tactics and more about design/trim. I guess I'm a bit of a purist and while this might appeal to the less informed spectators(and lets face it, they are the majority) I won't be glued to it trying to learn off the big boys any more.

 

Steve, you'll be happy to know you are very very wrong. The speed of the boats will mean it is easier to catch up and pass, than slow keelboats. Big gaps can be closed quickly, rather than never. Tactics most certainly exist, they are just different tactics to the leaners. Dialups may not be the same as in keelboats, but look at the first race of the last cup. BO nailed asslingi in the start box.

 

A 1% difference would be very small for a first round of a new design, but even bigger differences arguably can be overcome better at big speeds than slow ones. A stuffed tack in our level of racing mutlis can cost you a place or 2 easy, as in those 10-15 seconds stalled out, the other boats have gone huge distances.

 

things will be different for sure, but I cannot for the life of me see how they can be worse than plodding around in incredibly expensive, very slow, distorted abortions of yacts like the V5 boats. yuck!

[Guest]

Watching the media response to the "big announcement" it seems there is more interest from the non sailing couch potato public than from sailors???????????

Ya reckon? Heard Decker and a few chatting last nite and their response was 'Ho hum, over the AC'. At a dinner party last evening and the responses were all Ho hum there as well. The choice of boats didn't seem to have the slightest impact what so ever. It all seemed to be 'The AC, ya so what more years of wanking before a nothing spectacular race or 2'.

 

I think at this stage I'm in with that lot. I have zero boat preference and don't believe it'll make much difference to all bar a few. How they use whatever boats will be the deal breaker. I do like the LV lead up series idea, that will give people a chance to come to grips with the new boats but if it's a follow the leader deal the AC will be a flop.

 

Dialups may not be the same as in keelboats, but look at the first race of the last cup. BO nailed asslingi in the start box.

Poor example, both starts were cock-ups. If that was a multi version 'nailed them' it doesn't bode well.

[MrWolf 0]

Keelboats are incredibly maneouvrable at low speeds (cos they are so used to them) compared to cats which stick in the water.

Tactically the pre start will be far more crucial in Cats than it ever was in Monoslugs!

 

Level of excitement is 9.9 (with the Russian judge seriously considering a 10).

 

One pitchpole at 25 knots with a smashed Wing sail and you doubters will all be converted !

[Murky 1]

One pitchpole at 25 knots with a smashed Wing sail and you doubters will all be converted !

Will we though?

 

I remember watching Cayard blowing up all those green kites in Auckland in 199? and feeling embarrassed - as in, it's entertaining but not what yachting is meant to be about. No doubt it lifted the event out of the sports section of the TV news that night and into the main part though.

 

I'm not really a motorsport fan but will watch the crashes if they happen to come across the screen. But I never imagine that the guys doing cartwheels represent the pinnacle of yachting.

 

There is something about the close-quarters, duking it out that I will miss and guys in space helmets (with a heart rate monitor if RC has his way! woop de doo) won't replace it for me.

[MrWolf 0]

One pitchpole at 25 knots with a smashed Wing sail and you doubters will all be converted !

Will we though?

 

I remember watching Cayard blowing up all those green kites in Auckland in 199? and feeling embarrassed - as in, it's entertaining but not what yachting is about. No doubt it lifted the event out of the sports section and into the main TV news though.

 

I'm not really a motorsport fan but will watch the crashes if they happen to come across the screen. But I never imagine that the guys doing cartwheels represent the pinnacle of yachting.

 

 

It represents the most severe punishing of mistakes (human error rather than design error) in a way that any punter can understand.

The good guys will get passed the mistakes very quickly I'm sure, but there will be some excellent carnage along the way.

[Guest]

I'd go an 8.6 out of 10. It had to change from keelboats to something ..... it was a getting a bit slow and boring.

 

If the races are way closer to the shore then its got proper spectator appeal a la the IShares Cup or whatever it was called which really involved the punters in each city it was sailed.

 

I'm afraid it does loose points because the wing sail makes it all a bit intangible for most sailors/owners. As we all know you could probably get a 72 foot cat fairly wound up with soft

sails so why bother with the wing - it would still be exciting. In that respect its all a bit removed. You could argue the technology will filter down but somehow I doubt its ever going to be that practical to have a wing sail of any reasonable size parked on your average westhaven racer so a bit skeptical on that one.

 

I hope its awesome.

[BelowPAR 0]

From an engineering perspective, its awesome. I would actually love to be involved in this, but the old rule picking for an extra 8th of a knot did not make post grad study seem exciting.

 

From a racing perspective? Hmm dunno clipper, speed could exaggerate the differences in exactly the same way you say it might negate them. Good thing is tho, the horizon jobs will still be cool to watch!

 

Tactically the pre start will be far more crucial in Cats than it ever was in Monoslugs!

As in if your timed run is out by 2 seconds, you a boat length behind?

 

EE summed it up.

[Atom Ant 0]

I am totally wrapped that they've gone to multi's. I didn't really mind if it was in tri's or bi's but I'm happy. I guess we may consider that it is like Formula 1 car racing but I hope it is more interesting than that. To me watching those cars is as exciting as watching paint dry, but to others it's really exciting - different strokes for different folks. But your average punter won't need to understand a thing about sailing to enjoy this. Everyone who's ever sat in a plane will relate to a wing, even if they totally don't understand how it works.

 

I enjoyed the old boats too, and I found them exciting to watch - but it was different. This will be fab, although I'm not remotely interested in the intervening 2 - 3 years of bollocks and posturing that is undoubtedly coming our way.

 

9/10 because I think that going for a ride to the moon in Richard Bransons rockets is a 10.

[Guest]

Sigh, this discussion is boring, By the time the lawyers Finish and they finally start racing you lot will have discussed it to death.

Sit back, have a beer and wait for the first race THEN you can discuss the levels of boredom.

[wal 27]

Indeed........

 

.. but then what would we use the bandwidth on?.............

[Guest]

Can match racing work in Multies....... Well some already know the answer to that and like what they see.

 

 

http://www.sail-world.com/Australia/Ext ... orks/66075

 

Some said it couldn't be done on more than one hull, but the six Extreme 40s here at The Wave, Muscat for the Extreme Sailing Series Asia demonstrated that match racing in multihulls is not only viable, but spectacular. The crowded VIP viewing platform was given a thrilling demonstration of close quarter combat as the teams took it in turns to race head-to-head, just metres off the harbour wall.

 

The promised 12-15 knot wind came through at midday and the Race Committee set up a tight, 500 metre course. Seven flights, two matches a flight, and the teams were preparing for a long day.

 

Red Bull Extreme Sailing took on China Team in the first match and the America's Cup experienced duo of Thierry Barot and Tan Wearn Haw was evident as they dominated the pre-start manoeuvres, often slowing the racing down as they prepared to round the marks. But on the last beat, Red Bull overturned the match, taking the lead and the first point. The games had begun ...

 

The third match of the day was an Omani head-to-head with The Wave, Muscat hoping to capitalise on skipper Paul Campbell-James' student Match Racing experience, up against their stablemate Masirah. The boats were aggressive in the pre-start, with both sides calling for penalties, but green flagged by the Umpires and a fantastic start for Masirah, hitting the line at full pace. But disaster struck for The Wave, Muscat. As they flew a hull, almost over the mark, their clew failed, leaving their mainsail flapping in the wind. It was all over for Campbell-James and his team limped back to dock to repair the damage before tomorrow's penultimate day.

 

And so it continued. The action behind the start line was tight as the teams used their match racing experience to block each other out at the committee boat end, the action unfurling almost at the feet of the spectators. This simplified form of match racing was easy to understand for the non-sailors in the crowd and the more knowledgeable sailors were all commenting on how fast the teams were putting the Extreme 40s through their manoeuvres. Mistakes were punished hard by the opposing team as they all chased the win and the point for first over the line.

 

Masirah's strong boat handling skills were evident in the stronger winds as they barely put a foot wrong around the courses finishing top boat after the first round robin:

 

Wins/Losses

Masirah 5/0

Rumbo Almería 4/1

Red Bull Extreme Sailing 3/2

BT 2/3

China Team 1/4

The Wave, Muscat 0/5

 

This left The Wave, Muscat on the dock and China Team in fifth place with Red Bull and BT to battle it out for third place and Masirah and Rumbo Almería for the overall top spot.

 

China Team skipper Thierry Barot commented, 'Hard day, but good learning day. It is the first time we have done match racing together, Wearn Haw and I have before for the America's Cup, but not with Hugh [styles] and Adam [Piggott]. Most of the starts we had were quite good, only lost one against Rumbo Almeria, but they had a great day.

 

'It's been very interesting to do match racing in these boats. It was a very tough day for me, but great fun. I hope we do it more. I was a little bit worried about our experience but you find a lot of similar situations with the monohulls and multihulls and the solution is the same. For a first experience it was great and looking forward to doing more.'

 

And so the 'petit final' began. BT up against Red Bull Extreme Sailing. The racing was tight and Red Bull was in control from the start, but a forced error at the final top mark saw the Austrian team struggle with unfurling their gennaker with only one third of the sail out. BT saw their opening and took it. Nick Moloney said, 'We saw their gennaker and we started screaming at each other, come on come on and went hard as, and really aggressively fired each other up. 'Come on boys!' we were shouting. And then everyone lifts. We are amped anyway because it is so high energy but takes you to a higher level.' BT stormed down the final leg to take the win from the jaws of defeat and finished in third overall.

 

And the final beckoned for Oman Sail Masirah against double Olympic Gold Medallist Shirley Robertson's Rumbo Almeria. Shirley, an experienced match racer, dominated from the start, at one point sailing backwards to get out of the Omani team's clutches. She led over the line and kept in front all the way round, giving no room for overtaking and comfortably winning the match, and the day.

 

'We had a bit of a think about it before we went out. How were we going to gain an advantage and gain the opportunities and the pitfalls. The breeze was up, the boats are pretty difficult in that amount of wind, we were a bit nervous, but we approached the day fresh and approached each match fresh and as the tournament went on we got better and better.

 

'I'm the only girl out there but I have done quite a lot of match racing before and as have some of the other guys on the other teams. You need a fair amount of aggression but also you have to be able to manoeuvre your boat into position and that takes a bit of team work It was great coming into the final, we felt pretty confident and we came out on top - it was a great moment.'

 

And so the Extreme 40s proved it could be done, in spectacular style and easily understood by the spectators. Nick Moloney summed up the day for everyone, 'It was really good. Beautiful wind obviously made for awesome sailing. Muscat turned it on for the weather, what more would you want? Perfect hull flying conditions, flat water and beautiful blue skies. Everyone is really tired, but stoked. It's good to come off the water tired, you know you have done something worthwhile.'

 

Results after day 3 of racing:

 

Red Bull Extreme Sailing - 50

The Wave, Muscat - 42

BT - 38

China Team - 38

Masirah - 36

Rumbo Almeria - 27

 

Double Olympic Gold Medallist Roman Hagara, Red Bull Extreme Sailing: It was good to do this with the Extreme 40s and we had some tight races which was nice. I think it is a good format. It was thrilling onboard. The boats are so quick and you have to be careful not hit the other boat or the rocks. We were so close to shore at time and the spectators.

 

'We had another good furl at the gate and then it came undone on the downwind leg and that's it. Not a big problem we will learn. Tomorrow we feel comfortable crew work is perfect now, not always, but getting better and better so we feel good.'

 

Ian Walker, double Olympic silver medallist, Rumbo Almeria: 'It was very interesting today. Having skippered and been a tactician in the America's Cup, I was interested to see how it would work in catamarans, particularly with the America's Cup being in multihulls this time. I actually think it can work. We don't get that many passing manoeuvres anyway in the slower, heavier boats and what we saw today was a real premium boat handling. But the most important thing is setting the course so the boats can split at the leeward mark. If it was a one way track, it wouldn't work. But today it was an excellent course and there was a lot of over taking, from what we saw today in these conditions and these boats, I think thumbs up.

 

Leigh McMillan, helm on Oman Sail Masirah: 'It was obviously going to be full on with a bit of wind so got to actually get the boats moving a bit which was a lot of fun and quite a tight racecourse. The short racing area meant that the manoeuvres were full on, you never had a moment in the race to settle down. But it was good fun to engage with the other boats. It wasn't like two boat fleet racing, the pre-start dial ups in these boats were a lot of fun and a lot of pin outs at the Committee boats and that is what is exciting about match racing and we did it in the Extreme 40. We enjoyed it and had a good day. We won all of the round robin races and then we only had one final, so obviously lost that, unfortunately, but again, we had a great day and it was a lot of fun.'

[Adrianp 120]

I'm afraid it does loose points because the wing sail makes it all a bit intangible for most sailors/owners. As we all know you could probably get a 72 foot cat fairly wound up with soft

sails so why bother with the wing - it would still be exciting. In that respect its all a bit removed. You could argue the technology will filter down but somehow I doubt its ever going to be that practical to have a wing sail of any reasonable size parked on your average westhaven racer so a bit skeptical on that one.

 

 

North Sails Management must be gutted about the wings!

[Guest]

They are trying to go the F1 route, which isn't a bad thing, but sadly the V8's are a far better watch. Rangi Public relates to V8's more than some tiny German dude in a supercar Rangi will probably never even see in real life. Rangi's dream is getting a HSV V8 and that is achievable, probably won't happen but a F1 is guaranteed never to happen.

 

Interesting to see the 2 angles coming thru in the chatting. The die hard multi fans pumping up the boats and the rest more looking at the racing.

[Clipper 343]

Interesting to see the 2 angles coming thru in the chatting. The die hard multi fans pumping up the boats and the rest more looking at the racing.

 

But don't forget, the AC never has been, and never will (hopefully) be about the racing.

Its aboutt he fastest boat, the best design. Always has been, always will be. I'm pretty sure the fastest boat always wins out in the end.

I believe the multis will actually go a little way to evening out some fo the differences, as big balls can overcome small design advantages...

[Murky 1]

But don't forget, the AC never has been, and never will (hopefully) be about the racing.

You are kidding, right?

 

Otherwise I have been watching a different AC to you.

[benny14 6]

But don't forget, the AC never has been, and never will (hopefully) be about the racing.

Its aboutt he fastest boat, the best design. Always has been, always will be. I'm pretty sure the fastest boat always wins out in the end.

I believe the multis will actually go a little way to evening out some fo the differences, as big balls can overcome small design advantages...

 

Yeah I agree Clipper, AC has always been about boat design and innovation and this certainly is going to push those ideas even further! The racing will only become important in the LV, I think Larry and co will have too many ideas about the multi's now and the rest will be a few years behind in design, so the LV will be closer, AC will knot.

 

I'm very interested from a design/engineering point of view as that what it's always been. Will test crew work (in that if you make a mistake you'll be out the back door so fast you won't know what happened) but knot tactics, unless it's sailed somewhere with stupid shifty conditions, then it will be all luck.

 

Bring it on... Good to see it back on the water with more than just those two knuckle heads trying to prove who's got more $$ than who!