Black Panther 1,581 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Interesting to hear you say that booboo. A lot of people who were cruising 10 or 20 years ago think it's stuffed now. It's certainly gone downhill and showing no sign of a turnaround. Therefore absolutely agree with your go now call. At a personal level we are close to wanting to do the red sea and Suez. I've been waiting to hear things have improved there but it just ain't so. ( we may have to fly to daughter's graduation instead of sail). But I just want to get some cruising in soon before it is roo late. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
darkside 61 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 It certainly can be cost neutral if you pick the right boat. We met several kiwis sailing back from both sides of the states and doing it effectively for free. All the way from the Med was less common then. One Aussie on an ex charter cat started advertising a bit soon. He ended up selling it in Fiji and having to fly home. His crew line handled for us in Panama as it happens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 And of course in 8 to 10 years you may be too old or your leg may have fallen off or something Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MarkMT 68 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I just think that anyone who is thinking about it should do it soon. The NZ boat market will be flooded with bigger second hand production boats soon. Would be interested in some elaboration here. Is there something in particular that you see triggering a surge? And is your point that the increase in supply to the market will tip the economics against being able to sell at an attractive price on arrival? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWatson 374 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 We're looking at it and will be doing it inside 5y. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B00B00 310 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Exactly Mark MT or even worse not be able to sell at all. Probably around half the cruisers we have met are planning to sell in NZ or Aussie. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adrianp 119 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 A view from the other side of the equation. While shopping for Cats here in NZ we looked at a few where the guys had brought them in the Caribbean, sailed home to NZ and were trying to sell them. The problem they had was that they had made their plan off looking at the listed prices of similar boat here in NZ, not really knowing those boats were not selling at those prices. They then did the trip, get very attached to the boat and think it is worth top dollar, when its actually just sailed half way around the world and is a bit tired. He wants his trip to cost nothing The real problem is that they then refuse to settle for a reasonable sales value and then sits on it waiting for top dollar. These big cruising boats go downhill very quickly if not regularly used and maintained and very quickly become a "project" boat worth way less again. Real world numbers from one example - Voyage 430 Cat I'm guessing the guy brought it for $250-300K + $50-60k of taxes to import to NZ. Sellar thought he'd get $350K for it in NZ After being on the market for 6 months it dropped to $320k We look at in 6 months later and it hasn't been used for the whole 12 months here in NZ so everything is stuffed. All the "New" gear (sails, electonics, etc) was new in the Caribbean and is now 3-4 years old and have done some big miles + sat unused for 12 months of that. Owner is prepared to settle for $295k. He almost punches my lights out when I tell him its a project boat in the low to mid $200's. We walk away. 3 months late he finally sells it someone else for $230ish. In the 15 months she's been for sale here in NZ he'd have spent another 20-30K on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,581 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Hey Adrian - I could get you a job selling real estate!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Adrianp 119 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I think I was the first person to tell that guy the truth about his boat, not just "very nice, we'll get back to you". I then walked him through his boat pointing out all the issues, till he could see it from our prospective. We had that scenario at least 3 boats here in NZ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ex TL systems 63 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Not a lot of buyers for 300 k boats Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Bingo! exactly same experience as Adrian with the boat we recently bought (Jeanneau 42). We liked at dozens of production boats with equal mix of NZ new vs sailed from offshore. The difference was huge. We paid a bit more to get our lightly used NZ-new example instead of a near-identical sailed-to-NZ boat. The offshore boat looked way more tired but we thought it was cosmetic. Plus it had some new kit to woo potential buyers - I later found out it had structurally issues and had to replace all the keel bolts as a starting point. If you’re buying a purpose-built offshore production boat (Amel, Oyster, Ovni, Island Packet, Hylas, Discovery, Moody etc) then the sail to NZ most likely hadn’t over dressed the boat. But most of the lighter Mediterranean cruisers (Ben, Bav, Jen, Catalina etc) are not designed for extended offshore cruising - with some exceptions in their model lineups - with the result that many examples that’s have sailed to NZ will be carrying fatigue. They might have made it here fine and look ok on the surface but I would buy with great caution. And never expect to pay same price as NZ-new versions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
B00B00 310 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I suppose there are 2 ways to look at everything. If you buy a NZ new boat of the same vintage that hasn't been offshore and want to kit it up for an offshore passage, you will be chucking a ton of time and money at it. Solar panels + a stainless arch/davit to put it on, watermaker, wind generator, inner jib, life raft, spare parts, extra chain, cat 1 gear ect. Although I would think a fair bit of cat one gear would still need to be added to many of the current offshore cruisers. As has been mentioned in this thread a few times, its a super easy passage from the Med to NZ. Downwind the whole way in 15-25kt trade winds except the last bit to NZ. We haven't even tacked once yet or seen any real bad conditions. I think a bad coastal trip in NZ could do way more structural damage than the whole trip from Europe! We all know that the NZ coast is one of the worst there is. I think there is merit in buying a boat that already has had the money chucked at it and all the gear in good working order and ready to go. Its not all about how shiny the boat is.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Island Time 1,230 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Agreed Booboo, a sorted boat is always cheaper, provided it’s in good order. Shiny doesn’t matter. To me anyway. There is a lot more $ in making a boat really ready for offshore than most realise. And the NZ coast, esp south of east cape and cape egmont, is tougher sailing than most cruisers ever see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fogg 427 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I agree with both of you re cost of equipping a bare boat for offshore vs buying a fully kitted blue water cruiser. Also agree that NZ has some of the meanest waters in the world (arriving into NZ is particularly difficult compared to departing) but having been bought up sailing in Northern European waters I’d say they can be equally nasty too on occasions - often due to the stronger tides (5 kts+ are common) creating horrible conditions. But bottom line I wouldn’t buy a production boat and sail away from NZ eg up to islands. Call me a coward - might be right - but I’d want a purpose built offshore cruiser to take my family offshore. Especially as I’m nowhere near as experienced and competent offshore as some of you guys esp Booboo. So my current boat (Jeanneau 42DS) won’t be going offshore with me in it just Northland cruising. One day I might upgrade to an offshore boat and do a bigger trip but I don’t feel inclined in this, lovely as it is for Gulf Cruising, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted May 9, 2018 Author Share Posted May 9, 2018 Looks like they have stopped at Cocos Island Didn’t even know it was there, but looks amazing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Black Panther 1,581 Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 I was there in the 80s. Stunning. Breeding grounds for hammerhead. Supposedly pirate treasure buried there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 Warning Warning Warning Update They have left Tonga for NZ with a possible stop at Minerva Heading for Opua If they don’t stop they maybe in Russell next weekend ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
muzled 140 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Cool, be pretty exciting seeing the coast pop up for the first time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wal 27 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Best it for me (speshly in a sou'wester) is when the sea flattens out after you get in the lee of the Cape - then you smell the manuka Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 360 Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 Looks like they stopped for a cuppa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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